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Post by notneeson on Feb 19, 2023 13:51:04 GMT -6
The amount of space occupied by the kick drum has certainly undergone some radical changes over the years... Put on an old Sam & Dave record... Stax or whatever. The bass drum is all midrange. Lotta 500Hz. Not much 50Hz. Today, in the parlance of our times war has been declared on 500Hz and the bass drum. Gotta nuke it all. And then smash on 50Hz & 5kHz. One mic a foot away from the drum? Captured semi-flat-ish? Or maybe 3 mics all chewed up & carved into sculpture? Saul valid. Depends on what 'yer going for. I’m not sure we ever heard a true kick sound on 60’s records because engineers back then were tracking with vinyl mastering in mind. And also sound reinforcement changed hugely in the interim so listener expectations evolved there as well and the two things ultimately inform one another. |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 19, 2023 14:53:25 GMT -6
Yeah the dollars/watt ratio in sound reinforcement has really changed. I never heard any real bass anywhere mid-sized or smaller until well into the 2000's. Now it's a given everywhere.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 19, 2023 16:03:48 GMT -6
Good points! I’ve been to small venues here in Nashville with really superb sound. That just didn’t happen two decades ago.
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Post by lpedrum on Feb 19, 2023 16:42:38 GMT -6
The amount of space occupied by the kick drum has certainly undergone some radical changes over the years... Put on an old Sam & Dave record... Stax or whatever. The bass drum is all midrange. Lotta 500Hz. Not much 50Hz. Today, in the parlance of our times war has been declared on 500Hz and the bass drum. Gotta nuke it all. And then smash on 50Hz & 5kHz. One mic a foot away from the drum? Captured semi-flat-ish? Or maybe 3 mics all chewed up & carved into sculpture? Saul valid. Depends on what 'yer going for. I’m not sure we ever heard a true kick sound on 60’s records because engineers back then were tracking with vinyl mastering in mind. I guess it depends on what you call "true." THIS TRACK from 1965 sounds exactly like my Ludwig drums and I'd be happy to mix a kick drum that sounded like this today. Is it all squashed, scooped and hyped like many modern kick sounds? No. But it sounds like a drum and fits perfectly in the track. |
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 20, 2023 9:27:37 GMT -6
1966’s I’m Not Your Stepping Stone - Paul Revere & the Raiders
I think the drum sound on this track was ahead of its time by more than a few years. Not to mention the aggressive vibe of arrangement.
Great kick sound that, to me, sounds like a non-ported head, well dampened in a mostly dead room. Doesn’t need more attack because it’s already in front with the snare. Such a great kit sound
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Post by EmRR on Feb 20, 2023 13:07:47 GMT -6
1966’s I’m Not Your Stepping Stone - Paul Revere & the Raiders I think the drum sound on this track was ahead of its time by more than a few years. Not to mention the aggressive vibe of arrangement. Great kick sound that, to me, sounds like a non-ported head, well dampened in a mostly dead room. Doesn’t need more attack because it’s already in front with the snare. Such a great kit sound yeah! I'll take any of these for various reasons |
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Post by lpedrum on Feb 20, 2023 17:03:28 GMT -6
Amazing kick drum on this. In fact the whole drum sound is perfection. 1966.
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Post by paulcheeba on Feb 23, 2023 22:49:09 GMT -6
I’ve got a really cool 24x14 WFL with no ports. Actually has what I think is the original calf front head which has its own set of peculiar little quirks… I use the old clamp on spurs that came with my 50’s Slingerland kit, and the end of the spurs stick up a little bit and allow me to roll up and small towel and nest it between the spur arms and the reso head. Helps get rid of the basketball thing pretty well. If I need more damping I lightly rest a small light couch cushion against the head. Done! Also have a 20x14 Rogers (no ports) that seriously has the most bottom end of any drum I’ve ever heard. If you want punch out of it you’ve gotta get a really snappy beater and get a towel laid flat on the bottom of the shell. When it’s the sound you need, nothing beats it (pun intended). Also something that helps is the beater height. I think I heard Stanton Moore talking about this and adopted it, but he alluded to never having the beater hit the middle of the drum head. So on a 20” let it hit higher than middle, on a 24” let it hit below the middle. Makes a good bit of difference but also changes the feel of the drum so YMMV I just finished a session with my mid 60’s silver sparkle 20” non ported and I agree, it has more sub than an 808! Those 60’s Rogers are amazing. We just rested a cushion against the front head. Out of 15 kicks it was the deepest. The decay is crazy good. |
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Post by drumrec on Feb 24, 2023 5:21:53 GMT -6
Also something that helps is the beater height. I think I heard Stanton Moore talking about this and adopted it, but he alluded to never having the beater hit the middle of the drum head. So on a 20” let it hit higher than middle, on a 24” let it hit below the middle. Makes a good bit of difference but also changes the feel of the drum so YMMV Interesting! When I use "non-portet" bd, I have to change the bass drum technique when I play with "heal down" to get the tone with the "non-portet" bd. Usually I'm a "heal up" player, but it might help as Stanton M recommended. Will try! Thanks for sharing jeremygillespie Could not resist to post this. At the time of writing, I'm doing the opposite of the thread title 😂  |
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Post by theshea on Feb 24, 2023 6:57:55 GMT -6
just recorded a non ported kick drum with a md421 really close and aimed off centre. it did clean up the kick nicely. other mics were to full sounding. got the attack through a „wurst“ mic (the one in the middle of the drumkit between kick/snare/toms.
its not the middle off the road kick sound though.
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Post by brenta on Feb 24, 2023 8:30:09 GMT -6
For me it's all about genre and the tones that the artist and I are trying to achieve.
Sometimes the drummer has the non-ported resonant head on because they prefer that tone and the feel of the kick with it on. But with many of the drummers I work with, they only have the non-ported resonant head on because that's how the drum kit was when they bought it, they don't know any different, and they don't know the first thing about how to achieve the drum tones they want on a recording. That's why I'm there.
All of this can be figured out by having a quick conversation with the drummer, and often-times we end up completely removing the resonant head (and usually not replacing with a ported head). I put a pillow in the drum and a weight on the pillow, and a significant amount of the tone comes from how firmly the pillow is resting against the beater head.
If we leave the resonant head on, it's because we don't want a clicky tone in the first place. And then the techniques already described in this thread come into play.
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