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Post by rob61 on Feb 2, 2023 10:51:18 GMT -6
While I didn't need it, another reason to never buy anything with the UA brand.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 2, 2023 11:51:55 GMT -6
Why am I not surprised by this? My suspicion - Dave's standards are simply too high for the UA bean counters. Remember that they got their commercial "weight" by family ties and that UA does not now make the definitive versions of ANY of their famous pieces - and their prices are generally on the high side.
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Post by plinker on Feb 2, 2023 12:31:22 GMT -6
Why am I not surprised by this? My suspicion - Dave's standards are simply too high for the UA bean counters. Remember that they got their commercial "weight" by family ties and that UA does not now make the definitive versions of ANY of their famous pieces - and their prices are generally on the high side. I'm not a financial supporter, but I must admit that they haven't rested on their laurels -- I'd be surprised if >15% of their profits come from their hardware classics/reissues.
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Post by sean on Feb 2, 2023 12:42:35 GMT -6
Why am I not surprised by this? My suspicion - Dave's standards are simply too high for the UA bean counters. Remember that they got their commercial "weight" by family ties and that UA does not now make the definitive versions of ANY of their famous pieces - and their prices are generally on the high side. I'm not a financial supporter, but I must admit that they haven't rested on their laurels -- I'd be surprised if >15% of their profits come from their hardware classics/reissues. I’d imagine it’s more like 1% For every person that has a LA-2A reissue I’d say there’s 1000 with an Apollo. Pretty much every musician I know has an Apollo interface of some kind. David does have high standards. I had a Bock 241 for awhile and the tube started to fail (noisy and microphone). He wanted $600 to check out the mic and replace the tube…so I bought 5 different ones on eBay for $5 each, installed the quietest, and sold the microphone. Every other high end company has gone above and beyond to resolve any issues I’ve had…and on kit a lot cheaper than the 241. I can’t imagine what he’d want to charge to look at my custom shop 49 if something were to happen to it… Not throwing shade at David he’s very knowledgeable and forthcoming with his knowledge, especially in the past, but not sure that business approach would work at UA
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Post by aremos on Feb 2, 2023 12:47:55 GMT -6
Right now D. Bock must be the person with the most knowledge on quality microphone manufacturing. But I had lunch with him one day years ago & we talked about everything but microphones & I was extremely impressed with the man. I think he'll be on to something new when the time is right & we'll probably hear about it as soon as it happens.
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Post by Quint on Feb 2, 2023 12:54:38 GMT -6
I kind of assumed that, David Bock aside, these recently discussed lay offs had something to do with whatever is going on with the Spark mini-debacle currently unfolding. It's starting to sound like a bit of a shit show. Which is disappointing. I like UA, but this seems problematic. Glad I don't use Spark right now.
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Post by jmoose on Feb 2, 2023 12:59:10 GMT -6
I kind of assumed that, David Bock aside, these recently discussed lay offs had something to do with whatever is going on with the Spark mini-debacle currently unfolding. It's starting to sound like a bit of a shit show. Which is disappointing. I like UA, but this seems problematic. Glad I don't use Spark right now. Eh? What's the cliff notes version?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 2, 2023 13:28:38 GMT -6
Wonder if this has anything to do with UA brass prioritizing the new Spheres ? Maybe, they were always planned first and everything got caught up in covid supply chain delays ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 2, 2023 13:32:23 GMT -6
Spark debacle? What do you mean? I’m not a sub fan, but it obviously caters to a new untapped market, which must be very pleased with access to a growing number of ua plugs on the cheap ?
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Post by Quint on Feb 2, 2023 13:37:51 GMT -6
I kind of assumed that, David Bock aside, these recently discussed lay offs had something to do with whatever is going on with the Spark mini-debacle currently unfolding. It's starting to sound like a bit of a shit show. Which is disappointing. I like UA, but this seems problematic. Glad I don't use Spark right now. Eh? What's the cliff notes version? I don't use Spark, so I haven't experienced this myself, but it seems to be affecting Windows (not Mac, I think?) users. Something to do with really high CPU usage. There seems to be a lot of complaints about it on the Spark thread over at GS. Go read the last five to ten pages, if you're so inclined. It'll give you some context. People can't finish projects. UA doesn't offer a way to roll back to a previous version of Spark, etc. gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1376805-universal-audio-announces-uad-spark-uadx-native-subscription-service-123.html
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 13:38:48 GMT -6
Nah they just really want the name and he sold that to UA. Im kind of surprised he lasted as long as he did, the rumor always was he split with Soundelux was because he just didn’t fit in the corporate culture. It’s always hard for someone who is used to doing things their own way to suddenly have someone who can say “ no”. Don’t get me wrong many can benefit from this type of structure many can’t. Since UA is more or less trying to put it out there that he was not part of the layoff, Im going to bet there is some kind of no- compete clause in the UA- Bock deal. I’m sure - I was only joking …. I’m certain DB wouldn’t join Behringer. I do wonder who Behringer will absorb next though .. SSL maybe - that would surprise me. I once passed on a Bock 250 for $1K something to this day I regret! SSL already sold out to Audiotonix. They’re now making Chinese oem made knockoffs of their old gear with the same product names. They don’t use fake electrical parts yet like Focusrite, RME, and all your plate amps not ATC/Quested but… QC and durability is iffy
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 2, 2023 13:52:51 GMT -6
Why am I not surprised by this? My suspicion - Dave's standards are simply too high for the UA bean counters. Remember that they got their commercial "weight" by family ties and that UA does not now make the definitive versions of ANY of their famous pieces - and their prices are generally on the high side. I'm not a financial supporter, but I must admit that they haven't rested on their laurels -- I'd be surprised if >15% of their profits come from their hardware classics/reissues. The re introduction of hardware was strategic, it sells software. Can’t afford a 1176LN here is a plugin buy the guys who built the 1176! I never understood why a decent self respecting gearpimp with a high school education would push UA, so I sell the gear and you get to sell all the additional plugins? Umm see those little plugins are the long term $$$$. Know why Waves is still around? Because while they do sell direct a dealer can push it and sell it!
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Post by ericn on Feb 2, 2023 13:59:25 GMT -6
I’ll give you a very simple non audio example of why you keep the person who runs the place around for a while, a number of years ago the building I lived in was sold at auction, 15min later the new owner gave my good friend and building manager her walking papers and asked for company laptop. Great except one thing he never asked for any of the passwords! She wasn’t happy no real severance had a new job in less than an hour and he had no way of unlocking any of the software.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 2, 2023 14:01:16 GMT -6
Huh, I do have some sessions that have gotten weirdly maxed out since adding Spark. But, I'm on Catalina.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 14:04:29 GMT -6
I'm not a financial supporter, but I must admit that they haven't rested on their laurels -- I'd be surprised if >15% of their profits come from their hardware classics/reissues. The re introduction of hardware was strategic, it sells software. Can’t afford a 1176LN here is a plugin buy the guys who built the 1176! I never understood why a decent self respecting gearpimp with a high school education would push UA, so I sell the gear and you get to sell all the additional plugins? Umm see those little plugins are the long term $$$$. Know why Waves is still around? Because while they do sell direct a dealer can push it and sell it! The markup in UA is so huge on old ass, outdated plugs they can offer dealer discounts. Waves is still around because guys who know nothing about digital audio get used to their products, don’t change, and have to pretty much buy them again every few years. Waves only dropped their prices when they got brutally undercut by better programmers than them and they were unwilling to innovate. The new tube models are buggy turds worse than ancient shattered glass plugs. They’re not the same company as they were back when they made the Renaissance plugs.
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Post by jmoose on Feb 2, 2023 14:38:17 GMT -6
Well that's a shame because I was looking to replace my U67 with the a UA Bock, now I'm just looking at other mics. I'm sure its still going to be a fine mic and who knows... down the road I may even end up buying one! But as of now the appeal to me is gone. I don't need more mics to get anything done. Plenty of stuff here... about 3 dozen total with couple different flavors of Neumann, old Latvian made Blues... if someone's after a real hi fi piece? Things like a real 1971 U67 or a Manley Reference? All I gotta do is phone a friend. The appeal to me was getting something of a legacy piece. Yeah that's UA Bock serial number #23... yeah its cool. Now without him there in my mind there's no difference between #23 and #2300. So why stay on the pre-order? I was going to have the first one through the door at Sweetwater, and now I don't. Life goes on. To me pieces like that have some appeal... the collectors thing. My pair of Blue Baby Bottles are within the first 50 made. I also have two of the first thousand UA 1176's ever made. Bought way back when they were a new company and it was their only product 20 years ago. How has the industry changed in that time..? And UA themselves? I remember ordering them from guiTarget and the guy I was dealing with, the dept manager when I picked them up... he's going - "What are these things?" Its a limiter? And its analog? What would you use this on? Why not use waves L1... that's what everyone is using these days! Uhhh huh. Shut up Beavis. Gimmie the boxes before you hurt yourself. True story! In my mind a brand spankin' new 2022 UA Bock mic would've fit in great with all my other low serial # junk. But now..? Why? Whats the point? Now its just another mic. And that's not all that interesting to me.
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2023 14:49:32 GMT -6
Well that's a shame because I was looking to replace my U67 with the a UA Bock, now I'm just looking at other mics. I'm sure its still going to be a fine mic and who knows... down the road I may even end up buying one! But as of now the appeal to me is gone. I don't need more mics to get anything done. Plenty of stuff here... about 3 dozen total with couple different flavors of Neumann, old Latvian made Blues... if someone's after a real hi fi piece? Things like a real 1971 U67 or a Manley Reference? All I gotta do is phone a friend. The appeal to me was getting something of a legacy piece. Yeah that's UA Bock serial number #23... yeah its cool. Now without him there in my mind there's no difference between #23 and #2300. So why stay on the pre-order? I was going to have the first one through the door at Sweetwater, and now I don't. Life goes on. To me pieces like that have some appeal... the collectors thing. My pair of Blue Baby Bottles are within the first 50 made. I also have two of the first thousand UA 1176's ever made. Bought way back when they were a new company and it was their only product 20 years ago. How has the industry changed in that time..? And UA themselves? I remember ordering them from guiTarget and the guy I was dealing with, the dept manager when I picked them up... he's going - "What are these things?" Its a limiter? And its analog? What would you use this on? Why not use waves L1... that's what everyone is using these days! Uhhh huh. Shut up Beavis. Gimmie the boxes before you hurt yourself. True story! In my mind a brand spankin' new 2022 UA Bock mic would've fit in great with all my other low serial # junk. But now..? Why? Whats the point? Now its just another mic. And that's not all that interesting to me. Yeah, without David involved intimately, the shine is kind of gone.....
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Post by chessparov on Feb 2, 2023 15:13:14 GMT -6
Well at least my Soundelux U195, is serial number (get this)... 007 I expect at least a $5K CASH offer from Plush now. Goes with that Walther PPK. And he even has a Degree in, Triggernometry. Hmm... Maybe $5K is too low guys? Chris
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Post by drumsound on Feb 2, 2023 15:56:51 GMT -6
I'm not a financial supporter, but I must admit that they haven't rested on their laurels -- I'd be surprised if >15% of their profits come from their hardware classics/reissues. The re introduction of hardware was strategic, it sells software. Can’t afford a 1176LN here is a plugin buy the guys who built the 1176! I never understood why a decent self respecting gearpimp with a high school education would push UA, so I sell the gear and you get to sell all the additional plugins? Umm see those little plugins are the long term $$$$. Know why Waves is still around? Because while they do sell direct a dealer can push it and sell it! I believe that model has changed and retailers can now sell plugins as well.
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Post by ericn on Feb 2, 2023 16:06:41 GMT -6
The re introduction of hardware was strategic, it sells software. Can’t afford a 1176LN here is a plugin buy the guys who built the 1176! I never understood why a decent self respecting gearpimp with a high school education would push UA, so I sell the gear and you get to sell all the additional plugins? Umm see those little plugins are the long term $$$$. Know why Waves is still around? Because while they do sell direct a dealer can push it and sell it! I believe that model has changed and retailers can now sell plugins as well. They might have but I bet you have to go through UA to get and use your coupons.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 2, 2023 16:12:18 GMT -6
Yeah, without David involved intimately, the shine is kind of gone..... So besides cloning hardware compressors as software plugins, UA is now selling clones of classic David Bock microphones. 🤔 AFAIK their mutual intention was to make the last Soundelux/Bock line and the new UA... Sonically exactly the same for UA187/67/251. Hopefully that's still accurate. Chris
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Post by ericn on Feb 2, 2023 16:12:46 GMT -6
Yeah, without David involved intimately, the shine is kind of gone..... So besides cloning hardware compressors as software plugins, UA is now selling clones of classic David Bock microphones. 🤔 They do have the Slate system 😎 new Dave Bock inspired plugins? On another note anyone notice that the 2 Bock mics that didn’t get reissued by UA use different body work? Wonder if Dave wanted to do some of his own ideas and they just wanted clones that fit in with the parts they already had like Peavey’s design ethos of “ you use these resistors we buy them by the million “.
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Post by Ward on Feb 2, 2023 16:28:26 GMT -6
Well at least my Soundelux U195, is serial number (get this)... 007 SNIP Hmm... Maybe $5K is too low guys? Chris A bargain at twice the price, to the right buyer!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 2, 2023 16:52:57 GMT -6
Thx Quint, that sounds frustrating for Windows users.
Dropped Windows years ago and moved on.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 2, 2023 17:10:31 GMT -6
Nah they just really want the name and he sold that to UA. Im kind of surprised he lasted as long as he did, the rumor always was he split with Soundelux was because he just didn’t fit in the corporate culture. It’s always hard for someone who is used to doing things their own way to suddenly have someone who can say “ no”. Don’t get me wrong many can benefit from this type of structure many can’t. Since UA is more or less trying to put it out there that he was not part of the layoff, Im going to bet there is some kind of no- compete clause in the UA- Bock deal. If he had quit, I'd agree on the whole corporate culture thing. But he was let go. So UA made that decision. If acquiring Bock was part of UA's long term strategy, I would have thought keeping David around was part of that strategy, no? UA is run by a bunch of idiots.
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