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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 29, 2022 22:09:50 GMT -6
Could get a pair of locomotive 14Bs too and have them matched. Pricey. But probably more reliable than sta levels.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 22:38:58 GMT -6
Does it actually link the side chain? On the rack unit there is no way to link it. It's just a dual mono unit. Which I think is great personally. No, you use the link jumper in the 500 chassis and then whatever unit compresses the most becomes master. |
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Jul 30, 2022 7:24:56 GMT -6
Well, it sounds like I roll the dice either way. The Revolver definitely does stereo, but might not give me the sonics I want. 2 V-comps give me the sound I want, but might not do stereo well. Either way, it's about a $3,500 gamble. Or I do nothing and wait for more demo videos which might never get made, so that's also a gamble. But at least the do-nothing option doesn't cost me anything. 😎
It's crazy to me that there aren't more demo videos- especially for the Revolver. I guess hesitant, naive home studio buyers like me aren't the target market for higher end audio gear!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 7:41:58 GMT -6
Well, it sounds like I roll the dice either way. The Revolver definitely does stereo, but might not give me the sonics I want. 2 V-comps give me the sound I want, but might not do stereo well. Either way, it's about a $3,500 gamble. Or I do nothing and wait for more demo videos which might never get made, so that's also a gamble. But at least the do-nothing option doesn't cost me anything. 😎 It's crazy to me that there aren't more demo videos- especially for the Revolver. I guess hesitant, naive home studio buyers like me aren't the target market for higher end audio gear! It's not if you find a place with a decent returns policy or demo's available. I'd never buy anything at the high end without exploring how it fits in with my aesthetics or chain in totality. I love discussing equipment with all these super cool people on this forum however if you ask for an opinion (on any pro audio forum) you'll generally get 30 different answers, there's rarely any consensus.
I've used both the 3U and 500 series of the IGS, personally I prefer them on synth or drum busses rather than the 2-bus. I use an SSL compressor before the Empress / Bettermaker mastering limiter and it does the job for me.. Although I'm not after the 60's vibe so my approach would be very different.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2022 8:18:42 GMT -6
Could get a pair of locomotive 14Bs too and have them matched. Pricey. But probably more reliable than sta levels. Are STA Levels unreliable? My Retro STA Level has been doing it's "thang" for years compressing away with all it's usual beauty and thickness on the same set of valves are you saying I'm just lucky ..... or have a I just jinxed my STA Level  On the cranking front - if I drive the inputs my Phoenix Mastering Plus it does some really lovely things - very musical. I'm told you can take the gain reduction tube out of the STA Level and use it as a mic pre - I've never tried it so I can't confirm that one. |
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Post by rob61 on Jul 30, 2022 8:28:43 GMT -6
I've tried V-Comp as well as a pair of 14B on Hammond B-3, both mic'd Leslies as well as DI coming off the AO-28 preamp. I find the V-Comp to sound a bit more vintage with a nice mid low thickness. The 14B adds a bit of sheen or polish to the overall sound and is a bit tighter in the very low end. I do like the extra features of the 14B (side chain filter and stereo linking option when running two of them). Either one would probably give you the sound for which you're looking.
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Jul 30, 2022 11:23:29 GMT -6
I've tried V-Comp as well as a pair of 14B on Hammond B-3, both mic'd Leslies as well as DI coming off the AO-28 preamp. I find the V-Comp to sound a bit more vintage with a nice mid low thickness. The 14B adds a bit of sheen or polish to the overall sound and is a bit tighter in the very low end. I do like the extra features of the 14B (side chain filter and stereo linking option when running two of them). Either one would probably give you the sound for which you're looking. Rob- (and everyone else) thank you for this information! Do you still have the audio of the B3 recording? I'd love to hear it. I'm definitely chasing the Rudy Van Gelder organ sound. I typically record with the old "3 mics plus direct-in" and mix to taste on an organ buss in my DAW. You have me thinking the V-comp might be the way to go. I definitely want more vintage and mid-low thickness. Audioscape will put a stereo link on them if you ask for it. Super helpful, so thanks again. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 30, 2022 13:25:34 GMT -6
From what I'm hearing you saying, it's Manley for the Win!! The Varimu can get quite colored if you turn up the input. Sounds very 60/70's to me. Equal, but different are the Locomotive 14B's. A little more "up front" and - I hesitate to use the term, but I will - modern. They still exude tubey goodness, but in a more forward way then the Manley VariMu which puts a soft sheen on things in a different way and can pull things back. Both exemplary, both different. For a grindier B3 sound I've used the Locomotive weight tanks a lot. The AudioScape V Comps are VERY, VERY cool. Different again, but cool. They CAN be quite interesting on Mix bus, but not if you want to control the stereo imaging.  . For things like B3 or synths where the stereo image does not need to be LOCKED DOWN I think they are very cool. They are a bit more of a wild card when you go stereo. I'd love to see a true stereo V Comp from AS someday..... I like VariMu comps. LOL |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2022 14:01:26 GMT -6
Could get a pair of locomotive 14Bs too and have them matched. Pricey. But probably more reliable than sta levels. Are STA Levels unreliable? My Retro STA Level has been doing it's "thang" for years compressing away with all it's usual beauty and thickness on the same set of valves are you saying I'm just lucky ..... or have a I just jinxed my STA Level On the cranking front - if I drive the inputs my Phoenix Mastering Plus it does some really lovely things - very musical. I'm told you can take the gain reduction tube out of the STA Level and use it as a mic pre - I've never tried it so I can't confirm that one. Sorry by reliable I meant in terms of stereo tracking/matching. I probably wouldn't use a pair for stereo bus compression is what I meant by that. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2022 14:03:48 GMT -6
Well, it sounds like I roll the dice either way. The Revolver definitely does stereo, but might not give me the sonics I want. 2 V-comps give me the sound I want, but might not do stereo well. Either way, it's about a $3,500 gamble. Or I do nothing and wait for more demo videos which might never get made, so that's also a gamble. But at least the do-nothing option doesn't cost me anything. 😎 It's crazy to me that there aren't more demo videos- especially for the Revolver. I guess hesitant, naive home studio buyers like me aren't the target market for higher end audio gear! Another could be the gryaf stuff. There are two different vari mu compressors Mae by them that can add a lot of good stuff. I personally think a tube core with the 5670 tubes would give you want you want in terms of thick tube sound. Distortion can be handled in a lot of other ways. Honestly the b3 will do most that itself in my experience. You just need to capture it right. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 30, 2022 14:13:10 GMT -6
Are STA Levels unreliable? My Retro STA Level has been doing it's "thang" for years compressing away with all it's usual beauty and thickness on the same set of valves are you saying I'm just lucky ..... or have a I just jinxed my STA Level On the cranking front - if I drive the inputs my Phoenix Mastering Plus it does some really lovely things - very musical. I'm told you can take the gain reduction tube out of the STA Level and use it as a mic pre - I've never tried it so I can't confirm that one. Sorry by reliable I meant in terms of stereo tracking/matching. I probably wouldn't use a pair for stereo bus compression is what I meant by that. I understand now, that makes sense - thank you. I have a question for you :-) On my Sonoris Mastering Compressor plugin one feature says .... Variable: sidechain linking is adjustable from fully linked to fully splitIs that different to the linking/matching you are referring to? I find it sometimes sounds better by turning off or loosening this linking parameter. I think I've read people debating about whether stereo compressors sound better linked or unlinked but this may be referring to another parameter than the one you referred to on the STA Level? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 14:24:40 GMT -6
Sorry by reliable I meant in terms of stereo tracking/matching. I probably wouldn't use a pair for stereo bus compression is what I meant by that. I think I've read people debating about whether stereo compressors sound better linked or unlinked but this may be referring to another parameter than the one you referred to on the STA Level? I'm not BD but sometimes the variances in side imaging can make audio signals sound "wider" hence the reason why some prefer dual mono or unlinked stereo processing. IME it can also place the stereo field out of whack, if I decide to go down that path I always run the end result through an analyzer.
Or I tell people to do that, it seems that I rarely follow my own obvious advice .. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2022 14:43:36 GMT -6
Sorry by reliable I meant in terms of stereo tracking/matching. I probably wouldn't use a pair for stereo bus compression is what I meant by that. I understand now, that makes sense - thank you. I have a question for you :-) On my Sonoris Mastering Compressor plugin one feature says .... Variable: sidechain linking is adjustable from fully linked to fully splitIs that different to the linking/matching you are referring to? I find it sometimes sounds better by turning off or loosening this linking parameter. I think I've read people debating about whether stereo compressors sound better linked or unlinked but this may be referring to another parameter than the one you referred to on the STA Level? Yes and no. Two sta levels would be two compressors with independent sidechains aka dual mono. So not only will the side chains react independently but you have two different units that due to tolerances in the components likely will not match if you turn the dials to match. So while on a tube core which also has two independent sidechains the two channels match very very closely. So if you set the switches to the same, the two compressors components tolerances are held at a much higher standard. So they will match sonically. But the compression still is dual mono. Due to independent sidechains that means if you have something loud say a guitar part panned left that compressor is going to see more signal and compress the L side more than the R side unit since it's sidechain is not seeing that guitar part as loud. The knob that has variable side chain linking means it is blending the sidechain from the left and right channel sidechain. This can be done in a few different ways and is know as linking The simplest is to just combine them as a mono signal and the sectors responds accordingly and triggers both compression circuits at the same time. So if the kick is the loudest thing both l and r channels will see compression. And if we have that same guitar panned to the left that's loud it's still going to trigger both the left and right compression circuits. Linked units keep the stereo image from doing odd things. Dual mono can and usually does sound wider. Variable like that plugin allows you to dial this in as the dual mono can add lovely width and interesting movement. But too much of that can be bad. Sorry on my phone so if that doesn't makes sense I'll reply later when I'm at my computer. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2022 14:45:02 GMT -6
I think I've read people debating about whether stereo compressors sound better linked or unlinked but this may be referring to another parameter than the one you referred to on the STA Level? I'm not BD but sometimes the variances in side imaging can make audio signals sound "wider" hence the reason why some prefer dual mono or unlinked stereo processing. IME it can also place the stereo field out of whack, if I decide to go down that path I always run the end result through an analyzer.
Or I tell people to do that, it seems that I rarely follow my own obvious advice .. I use both dual mono and stereo all the time for bus work. Just depends on the tune and the mix. |
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Jul 30, 2022 15:23:15 GMT -6
Interesting! Does this hold true if you connect 2 Sta-Levels via the stereo connector jacks on the back? |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2022 17:17:16 GMT -6
Interesting! Does this hold true if you connect 2 Sta-Levels via the stereo connector jacks on the back? No. If you tie them together via a cable them the side chains are linked. I'd have to check the manual to know how it would behave. My guess is whichever sidechain signal is louder, as in whichever one has signal crossing the threshold, then both with trigger compression. So loudest one wins. But again would have to check the manual. It's also possible just one of them would control the attack and release times when linked. You would however still have to contend with the input and output gain knobs not matching. Since the units would not be matched. Might be able to buy a pair matched though custom ordered. You wouldn't have that problem with the Manley or tube core(the full rack one that is) as they are setup to be matched. The tube core can't be stereo linked though but can do mid side which is a fair trade for that. |
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Post by sirthought on Jul 30, 2022 18:49:12 GMT -6
Is a Millennia Media TLC-2 not the right vibe for that application?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2022 19:15:58 GMT -6
Is a Millennia Media TLC-2 not the right vibe for that application? Possibly. I don't see why not. Never heard of that one. Looks cool. |
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Post by Chad on Jul 30, 2022 20:35:58 GMT -6
That's exactly what I found confusing. Is it makeup gain (after compression) or is it used to drive the input (into the compression)? Those seem like two different scenarios, and they worded it in a super confusing manner. It is pre compression. You can clearly turn up the gain knob and the Gain reduction increases. Its a make up gain though to the input stage. However, you only have -12dB of output gain attenuation. So you probably aren't going to be able to really push it crazy hard. You could also put an attenuation device that knocks it down from -6 to -12 db at 600 ohms or so (experiment?) between the outputs and the next piece of gear. Could be awesome. Could be “not so awesome.” ;-) |
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Jul 30, 2022 21:12:23 GMT -6
Is a Millennia Media TLC-2 not the right vibe for that application? I believe the Mellinnia is an opto-compressor. I definitely want a vari-mu. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 31, 2022 5:08:28 GMT -6
I understand now, that makes sense - thank you. I have a question for you :-) On my Sonoris Mastering Compressor plugin one feature says .... Variable: sidechain linking is adjustable from fully linked to fully splitIs that different to the linking/matching you are referring to? I find it sometimes sounds better by turning off or loosening this linking parameter. I think I've read people debating about whether stereo compressors sound better linked or unlinked but this may be referring to another parameter than the one you referred to on the STA Level? Yes and no. Two sta levels would be two compressors with independent sidechains aka dual mono. So not only will the side chains react independently but you have two different units that due to tolerances in the components likely will not match if you turn the dials to match. So while on a tube core which also has two independent sidechains the two channels match very very closely. So if you set the switches to the same, the two compressors components tolerances are held at a much higher standard. So they will match sonically. But the compression still is dual mono. Due to independent sidechains that means if you have something loud say a guitar part panned left that compressor is going to see more signal and compress the L side more than the R side unit since it's sidechain is not seeing that guitar part as loud. The knob that has variable side chain linking means it is blending the sidechain from the left and right channel sidechain. This can be done in a few different ways and is know as linking The simplest is to just combine them as a mono signal and the sectors responds accordingly and triggers both compression circuits at the same time. So if the kick is the loudest thing both l and r channels will see compression. And if we have that same guitar panned to the left that's loud it's still going to trigger both the left and right compression circuits. Linked units keep the stereo image from doing odd things. Dual mono can and usually does sound wider. Variable like that plugin allows you to dial this in as the dual mono can add lovely width and interesting movement. But too much of that can be bad. Sorry on my phone so if that doesn't makes sense I'll reply later when I'm at my computer. Thanks for that explanation - it makes sense. I have a Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Plus Vari-mu bus compressor. It's a dual mono capable but for bus duties there's a link switch that they suggest you engage to maintain a steady stereo image. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 31, 2022 10:38:29 GMT -6
They take the edge off but don't overthink it.. Crank that shit and enjoy..
How's that Empress? I haven't been able to find many opinions on it? I like how, in theory, I could get two Pultec style eqs in 2u of rackspace versus 6u of rackspace for something like a pair of "unit space correct" boxes like what Audioscape offers. I'm positive that the Audioscapes sound great, but it annoys me that they insist on it taking up 3u per mono channel. Yeah, it's "correct", but I don't care. I could even live with 2u per box, but 3u just seem unnecessary, unless it's just about looks, which it is. I just got the AS Opto Comp and all I can really say it that it's an instant (well, almost) "Betterizer", at least for me. We set it up for a test with our (JBL & Soundcraft) rehearsal system, but our little baby Soundcraft board lacks inserts, so we're using an A Designs Ventura for the front end on my channel. In this context, it just exactly what I've always wanted on my voice.
As far as the size goes, I assume that it probably has to do with avoiding magnetic interference from the transformers and ventilation.
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Post by AgnosticGospel on Jul 31, 2022 15:24:37 GMT -6
Well, there are two V-Comp+ compressors just sitting there on the Audioscape webpage. They still havent sold from last night's saturday inventory drop. I've never seen that happen! They're up for grabs, but I just can't make myself do it! Grrrrr!
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 7, 2022 12:11:50 GMT -6
Well, there are two V-Comp+ compressors just sitting there on the Audioscape webpage. They still havent sold from last night's saturday inventory drop. I've never seen that happen! They're up for grabs, but I just can't make myself do it! Grrrrr! That’s actually how I grabbed my V-Comp. They had a slow Saturday the one time and it was sitting there Sunday morning. I couldn’t pass it up. |
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cj
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Post by cj on Oct 6, 2022 13:12:56 GMT -6
Hey everybody- 1st post. In all the videos I've watched of the IGS Tubecore, I've never seen anyone really crank the gain knob. Is this knob for input gain, which you could use to drive the tube like a Sta-Level? Or is it makeup gain like on an LA2A? I downloaded the manual, but it's a bit unclear to me.
I'm not sure if this helps at all (and you my have already seen it) but in this IGS video at about 4:12 he cranks the gain on the Tubecore all the way up. He's in M/S mode when doing it so it only effects the side. May be of little value to you but thought I'd mention it.
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