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Post by scumbum on May 28, 2014 20:36:05 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on May 28, 2014 20:50:38 GMT -6
I totally believe they didn't apply compression DURING tracking to the drums, and that is a smart thing to NOT do IMO.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 28, 2014 20:59:51 GMT -6
Compressing drums didn't become common until SSL consoles became common. Same for buss compression. The Beatles were an exception because they were trying to keep tape hiss down during an unheard of number of tape generations.
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Post by unit7 on May 28, 2014 23:12:45 GMT -6
scumbum Have you ever worked with material recorded to tape [hit medium/hard]? Tape compression. It's funny these days when I've mixed occasional tape recordings (transferred to PT) when initially setting the levels, listening to the music and hearing a crescendo (you know... the sum of a bunch of musicians building up for a big hit) , looking at the meters expecting things to go red, and it just don't happen.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 6:48:48 GMT -6
Really interesting. Different workflow.
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Post by scumbum on May 29, 2014 16:31:18 GMT -6
scumbum Have you ever worked with material recorded to tape [hit medium/hard]? Tape compression. It's funny these days when I've mixed occasional tape recordings (transferred to PT) when initially setting the levels, listening to the music and hearing a crescendo (you know... the sum of a bunch of musicians building up for a big hit) , looking at the meters expecting things to go red, and it just don't happen. I've never worked with a Pro tape machine , just my old 4 track cassette recorder . |
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Post by scumbum on May 29, 2014 16:32:39 GMT -6
Compressing drums didn't become common until SSL consoles became common. Same for buss compression. The Beatles were an exception because they were trying to keep tape hiss down during an unheard of number of tape generations. Around what year would you say the SSL became common ? Early 80's ? |
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Post by ragan on May 29, 2014 18:01:01 GMT -6
Phil Rudd's a mighty steady hitter...
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Post by donr on May 29, 2014 18:38:43 GMT -6
None of BOC's classic recordings had anything on the 2 bus, nor were there groups or group bus processing on the console at that time. Drums relied on the tape for the sound. The "2 bus" sound came at the mastering stage. The prime concern was disk cutting/tone arm tracking, but within that limit, some of those masters were heavily massaged for sound.
BOC's classic CBS albums were sonically artistic, but I wouldn't consider them state of then art hi-fi by any means. I think the ones produced and engineered by Martin Birch to be the ballsiest from an engineering/mix standpoint.
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Post by Ward on May 29, 2014 19:30:39 GMT -6
Compressing drums didn't become common until SSL consoles became common. Same for buss compression. The Beatles were an exception because they were trying to keep tape hiss down during an unheard of number of tape generations. Around what year would you say the SSL became common ? Early 80's ? Common? Somewhere between 1985 and 1987, depending on how common you mean by common... maybe even later by some people's standards. I don't think I even physically touched an SSL until around 1990. Yes, I once lived a very deprived life. you can send flowers. |
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Post by tonycamphd on May 29, 2014 20:18:06 GMT -6
None of BOC's classic recordings had anything on the 2 bus, nor were there groups or group bus processing on the console at that time. Drums relied on the tape for the sound. The "2 bus" sound came at the mastering stage. The prime concern was disk cutting/tone arm tracking, but within that limit, some of those masters were heavily massaged for sound. BOC's classic CBS albums were sonically artistic, but I wouldn't consider them state of then art hi-fi by any means. I think the ones produced and engineered by Martin Birch to be the ballsiest from an engineering/mix standpoint. what i find so fleeting these days, is how to get the actual recording process to add so much vibe to the sound, i mean BOC is great, the songs/ performances are top notch, and there is a lot of musical testifying going on, but when those records kick in, the sound has that instant transformative quality, meaning what ever mood i'm in, it takes me to "that" place, i'd give my spleen to be able to bottle that juice! what ever that "juice" is? donr, if you ever get the time or feel so inclined, i'd love to hear more about the studio, gear and techniques you guys used to create Agents of fortune(i'm sure all of us would), those recordings are just great, they are so laden with vibe, i'd trade in hi fi all day long for that stuff. |
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Post by matt on May 29, 2014 20:34:11 GMT -6
None of BOC's classic recordings had anything on the 2 bus, nor were there groups or group bus processing on the console at that time. Drums relied on the tape for the sound. The "2 bus" sound came at the mastering stage. The prime concern was disk cutting/tone arm tracking, but within that limit, some of those masters were heavily massaged for sound. BOC's classic CBS albums were sonically artistic, but I wouldn't consider them state of then art hi-fi by any means. I think the ones produced and engineered by Martin Birch to be the ballsiest from an engineering/mix standpoint. For me, the formative sonic signature of BOC originates on the first two albums. Before The Kiss, Cities On Flame, Hot Rails, are highlights IMHO. I have always thought that the prevailing sound of these records was a conscious decision, and an appropriate one for the style- mostly dry, tight, and tilted toward the low end EQ-wise. They have the significant benefit of sounding better when played very loud. I wish young bands of today had the artistic freedom to put something like this out, to make artistic choices. And purposely overing/radically compressing the master doesn't count. |
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Post by scumbum on May 29, 2014 20:51:40 GMT -6
None of BOC's classic recordings had anything on the 2 bus, nor were there groups or group bus processing on the console at that time. Drums relied on the tape for the sound. The "2 bus" sound came at the mastering stage. The prime concern was disk cutting/tone arm tracking, but within that limit, some of those masters were heavily massaged for sound. BOC's classic CBS albums were sonically artistic, but I wouldn't consider them state of then art hi-fi by any means. I think the ones produced and engineered by Martin Birch to be the ballsiest from an engineering/mix standpoint. Thanks for sharing that . I'm always interested in how things were done back in the day , when music was actually good ! I think music is way over mixed today . Too much processing ....2 bus this....parallel compress that .....lets just hear the band play for once ! Stick them in a room , hit record and give me a CD of it , that all I ask . |
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Post by scumbum on May 29, 2014 20:55:23 GMT -6
So "Back in Black" was tracked with an MCI console.....HOLY CRAP ! Talk about an under rated console and mic pre .
I think this album is THE rock album , or at least one of them , that is a benchmark to measure other rock albums .
That MCI mic pre sounds great . Why has nobody made a 500 series MCI mic pre ?
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Post by watchtower on May 29, 2014 20:55:37 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"?
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Post by tonycamphd on May 29, 2014 20:58:04 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"? Blue Oyster Cult, donr is co founder and lead singer/guitar player |
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Post by scumbum on May 29, 2014 20:59:37 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"? Big Old Cojones |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 23:16:35 GMT -6
Wow. Suddenly I feel as unworthy as Garth Algar.
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Post by levon on May 29, 2014 23:46:14 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"? Don't worry, you're not alone. I was wondering what 'BOC' has in common with Back in Black... |
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Post by donr on May 30, 2014 6:49:13 GMT -6
Back In Black has sold over 50 million copies worldwide, second only to Dark Side of the Moon in sales. My band ALMOST made a record with Mutt Lang producing, he was up for it, but scheduling couldn't be resolved. I often ponder if we'd done a record with Mutt, our career would have bumped another level. We should have waited for him to be available!
I listened again yesterday to a great sounding record, Alison Krauss and Union Station's "Paper Airplane," recorded in 2011 by engineer Mike Shipley, who did Def Leppard and Shania Twain and Maroon 5 with Mutt Lang. It sounds wonderful. Just flawless. Doesn't get any better. The biggest bummer with Mike's death is we won't hear any more of his records.
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Post by henge on May 30, 2014 7:00:53 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"? Blue Oyster Cult. ooops...a bit late... |
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Post by henge on May 30, 2014 7:11:13 GMT -6
Back In Black has sold over 50 million copies worldwide, second only to Dark Side of the Moon in sales. My band ALMOST made a record with Mutt Lang producing, he was up for it, but scheduling couldn't be resolved. I often ponder if we'd done a record with Mutt, our career would have bumped another level. We should have waited for him to be available! I listened again yesterday to a great sounding record, Alison Krauss and Union Station's "Paper Airplane," recorded in 2011 by engineer Mike Shipley, who did Def Leppard and Shania Twain and Maroon 5 with Mutt Lang. It sounds wonderful. Just flawless. Doesn't get any better. The biggest bummer with Mike's death is we won't hear any more of his records. I just checked who engineered BiB and it wasn't Shipley! Brilliant engineer... |
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Post by matt on May 30, 2014 7:23:23 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"? |
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Post by odyssey76 on May 30, 2014 7:26:54 GMT -6
None of BOC's classic recordings had anything on the 2 bus, nor were there groups or group bus processing on the console at that time. Drums relied on the tape for the sound. The "2 bus" sound came at the mastering stage. The prime concern was disk cutting/tone arm tracking, but within that limit, some of those masters were heavily massaged for sound. BOC's classic CBS albums were sonically artistic, but I wouldn't consider them state of then art hi-fi by any means. I think the ones produced and engineered by Martin Birch to be the ballsiest from an engineering/mix standpoint. what i find so fleeting these days, is how to get the actual recording process to add so much vibe to the sound, i mean BOC is great, the songs/ performances are top notch, and there is a lot of musical testifying going on, but when those records kick in, the sound has that instant transformative quality, meaning what ever mood i'm in, it takes me to "that" place, i'd give my spleen to be able to bottle that juice! what ever that "juice" is? donr, if you ever get the time or feel so inclined, i'd love to hear more about the studio, gear and techniques you guys used to create Agents of fortune(i'm sure all of us would), those recordings are just great, they are so laden with vibe, i'd trade in hi fi all day long for that stuff. Agreed. Much less density of tracks, way more excitement. There are so many intangibles that creates this "X factor." Don't know how it happened I wasn't there, but would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the studios those days. |
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Post by donr on May 30, 2014 7:42:26 GMT -6
Back In Black has sold over 50 million copies worldwide, second only to Dark Side of the Moon in sales. My band ALMOST made a record with Mutt Lang producing, he was up for it, but scheduling couldn't be resolved. I often ponder if we'd done a record with Mutt, our career would have bumped another level. We should have waited for him to be available! I listened again yesterday to a great sounding record, Alison Krauss and Union Station's "Paper Airplane," recorded in 2011 by engineer Mike Shipley, who did Def Leppard and Shania Twain and Maroon 5 with Mutt Lang. It sounds wonderful. Just flawless. Doesn't get any better. The biggest bummer with Mike's death is we won't hear any more of his records. I just checked who engineered BiB and it wasn't Shipley! Brilliant engineer… BiB was before Shipley was working with Mutt. Mutt likely tracked that record, there is no engineer credit. Martin Birch also was an engineer/producer. Martin did Deep Purple Machine Head and many of the Iron Maiden records |
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