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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 30, 2014 9:59:54 GMT -6
MCIs sounded great until the massive number of cold solder joints started going bad after a few years. It was cheaper to replace an MCI than to fix it. The horrible reputation comes from all of the folks who made the mistake of buying one second hand.
The massive amounts of compression are due to the massive amount of dynamics fabrication required to mix all overdub records. This was done by compressing and then automating everything. Tape compression is way over-rated in my opinion. What screws up drum sounds is wimpy underpowered mike preamps and A to D converter analog stages.
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Post by jimwilliams on May 30, 2014 10:33:46 GMT -6
I can't remember ever compressing drums back in the 1970's or up to the mid 1980's. Like Bob said, it was those damn SSL track compressors that did us in.
Old habits die hard.
Some still use NS-10's too.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 10:51:55 GMT -6
I just checked who engineered BiB and it wasn't Shipley! Brilliant engineer... Terry Manning did the engineer |
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Post by Ward on May 30, 2014 11:16:30 GMT -6
Old habits die hard. Some still use NS-10's too. Hush. That can't be true!! |
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Post by watchtower on May 30, 2014 17:02:59 GMT -6
Ahh, Blue Oyster Cult. Awesome! I can't remember ever compressing drums back in the 1970's or up to the mid 1980's. Like Bob said, it was those damn SSL track compressors that did us in. Old habits die hard. Some still use NS-10's too. So what was it about the SSL track compressors "being there" that made you/everyone start using them? |
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Post by tonycamphd on May 30, 2014 17:13:47 GMT -6
Ahh, Blue Oyster Cult. Awesome! I can't remember ever compressing drums back in the 1970's or up to the mid 1980's. Like Bob said, it was those damn SSL track compressors that did us in. Old habits die hard. Some still use NS-10's too. So what was it about the SSL track compressors "being there" that made you/everyone start using them? Happy birthday loudness wars, born ??/??/1985-87 |
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Post by wiz on May 30, 2014 17:38:35 GMT -6
I have CDs from 1985 that sound great and have headroom for days. EG Slow Turning John Hiatt (still my reference to this day) and Scarecrow by John Insert second name of choice here. Also have Cars Heart beat city and Greatest hits from that year and they sound awesome too.
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 30, 2014 18:08:16 GMT -6
The most prestigious studios often had only 3 to 8 channels of compression available before the SSLs showed up.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 30, 2014 18:10:35 GMT -6
How freaking cool is it to have Buck Dharma, Bob O and Jim Williams here? Freaking awesome!
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Post by scumbum on May 30, 2014 19:14:39 GMT -6
MCIs sounded great until the massive number of cold solder joints started going bad after a few years. It was cheaper to replace an MCI than to fix it. The horrible reputation comes from all of the folks who made the mistake of buying one second hand. The massive amounts of compression are due to the massive amount of dynamics fabrication required to mix all overdub records. This was done by compressing and then automating everything. Tape compression is way over-rated in my opinion. What screws up drum sounds is wimpy underpowered mike preamps and A to D converter analog stages. Cold solder joints through out a console would be a nightmare !!!! Thats like a billion places to re-flow solder . I actually had an MCI console and tape machine in my garage for awhile . My brother in law bought it and was planning on getting it working but never did . He was a big ACDC fan . I was gonna buy it off him but the whole setup , getting it running , fixing it , buying tape , electrical bill costs running it was just too much . Using my Pro Tools rig was so easy , portable , reliable , no tape costs and no solder joints to fix . I just kept thinking about all the time I would spend fixing and maintaining it , and all that time could be used writing and playing music instead of soldering . Heres some pictures of it ,  
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Post by scumbum on May 30, 2014 19:25:52 GMT -6
I can't remember ever compressing drums back in the 1970's or up to the mid 1980's. Like Bob said, it was those damn SSL track compressors that did us in. Old habits die hard. Some still use NS-10's too. Whats weird is the guys that like rock usually will say the 70's rock drum sound is the best , but when you tell them they didn't use much compression back then , or none at all , they don't get it and continue to compress the hell out of their drums and say " Wow, those 70's drums sound so great , thats how I want my drums to sound"...... Isn't a big part of the sound of the 70's only compressing the Vocals and bass ? Leave everything else alone ? |
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Post by tonycamphd on May 30, 2014 19:26:16 GMT -6
I have CDs from 1985 that sound great and have headroom for days. EG Slow Turning John Hiatt (still my reference to this day) and Scarecrow by John Insert second name of choice here. Also have Cars Heart beat city and Greatest hits from that year and they sound awesome too. 8) cheers Wiz to be clear, i said the loudness war was BORN then, it took till approximately 2005 to reach it's full "limit" 8) |
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Post by tonycamphd on May 30, 2014 20:09:35 GMT -6
I can't remember ever compressing drums back in the 1970's or up to the mid 1980's. Like Bob said, it was those damn SSL track compressors that did us in. Old habits die hard. Some still use NS-10's too. Whats weird is the guys that like rock usually will say the 70's rock drum sound is the best , but when you tell them they didn't use much compression back then , or none at all , they don't get it and continue to compress the hell out of their drums and say " Wow, those 70's drums sound so great , thats how I want my drums to sound"...... Isn't a big part of the sound of the 70's only compressing the Vocals and bass ? Leave everything else alone ? careful scum, suggesting tracking without compression can get you in trouble man... ssshhhh.... tape, and the lack of vinyl mandated bottom end relative to today, had a lot to do with the 70's sound imo, but the reason it sounds so pleasing in comparison to todays stuff is less credited to just this, I think the bulk of what you hear today is clearly OVER eq'd/phase smeared/compressed/limited/squarewaved, and then summed digitally(mostly all by virtual emulations) and hackmastered EXTREMELY LOUD! there is an obnoxious video game quality to the music? Of course there are exceptions, but overall, not good man, this obviously was not even close to what they did in the 70's(voltage based everything), it's like people today apply all this stuff because they can, not because it serves the music, and yes, i believe all things being equal(even with the 70's lack of bottom end), those recordings are superior to today from top to bottom. JMO, actually is it JMO? DR ratings pretty much bear this out to be true, don't they? Check out some quality files of earth wind and fire on a great reproduction system, it absolutely pounds! |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 31, 2014 9:13:59 GMT -6
They compress the grunt out of the drums and then replace them all with samples! Hello???
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 31, 2014 9:17:46 GMT -6
The great sounding MCIs were the yellow 500s. Lots of places replaced their 8 buss consoles with MCIs in order to go from 16 to 24 track.
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Post by jimwilliams on May 31, 2014 10:24:02 GMT -6
Ahh, Blue Oyster Cult. Awesome! I can't remember ever compressing drums back in the 1970's or up to the mid 1980's. Like Bob said, it was those damn SSL track compressors that did us in. Old habits die hard. Some still use NS-10's too. So what was it about the SSL track compressors "being there" that made you/everyone start using them? If they build them, they will come. It was a "why not slap a comp on every track, we have them" situation. Before that you had maybe 4 or 5 comps in the rack, now we have dozens! |
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Post by ragan on Jun 5, 2014 23:25:45 GMT -6
I can't wait for the "d'oh" once I find out, but what the hell is "BOC"? Blue Oyster Cult. Took me a minute, too. edit: just realized I was in the middle of the thread and this has long since been answered. Still getting the hang of RealGear.... |
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Post by popmann on Jun 6, 2014 21:12:00 GMT -6
We only compressed the kick circa...ehh...88-92'ish? In combo with some SERIOUS EQ sculpting. To this day, I still always use a graphic EQ for it. I still don't usually do much. Snares need CLIPPING. A distortion algo will do better than a compressor at emulating the effect of tape.
people forget how much time was spent "finding" the drum sound for recordings. Moving the kit...adjusting the mics...now, I think too many people throw up the mics and figure they'll iron all that out in the mix. It's not "wrong"....it's just a totally different way--it's not the sound of MCI mic pres...it's the time spent by everyone involved to make that kit in that room and those mics/pres/eq/etc sound best it could.
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