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Post by wiz on May 16, 2022 21:07:57 GMT -6
Really what matters most.. is how much you are "stressing" the analog chain before the convertor and then the convertor itself.
You should be operating the gear you have in front of the convertor, where it and you want to run it , getting the sound you want out of it, whether it be clean or dirty.
Then you should have a convertor that can capture that, without having any sort of audio issue...
This all comes down to the dynamic range of the convertor.. its headroom.
You look at what audio level it takes for the convertor to reach 0dBFull Scale... then subtract how much headroom you need.... eg if an audio interface takes 20dBu to hit 0dBfs... the nominal input level for most analog gear is 4dBu... so you would be at -16dB on you peak meters in your DAW when things are operating where they generally should be.. this gives you 16dB of headroom to catch peaks.
If you use a audio interface that needs 12dBu for 0dBfull scale.. then when you are giving in 4dBu from the analog world you will be hitting -8dB on your DAW meters...
so the same amount of level, coming out of a Mic Preamp, into the same DAW could very well measure -16dBFs on one converter and -8dBFs on another converter.
I always leave a shitload of headroom.... There is basically no sonic penalty at 24 bit....
Run the analog gear where you want it... know your converter and hit it appropriately... DO NOT TURN SOMETHING UP JUST BECAUSE ITS NOT HITTING FAR ENOUGH UP THE SCALE
cheers
Wiz
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Post by schmalzy on May 16, 2022 21:31:41 GMT -6
One thing that might make a difference in mastering I’ve been thinking about, a 2 dB difference can sound pretty dramatic. So what if a certain EQ allows you boost the highs easier than another? If you can get an extra dB of high mids out of a certain EQ, might get you part of the way there. Same with compressors, if one is a little sweeter it might allow an extra dB. And then converters as well, maybe you can clip for another dB? Or maybe they are sweeter overall and allow you to EQ the highs hotter? This is at the heart of some of the better mastering guys I know. They'll basically use certain pieces of gear for certain sounds. As an example: Maag or Clariphonic for top end. Get the upper mids forward/backward from a Manley. Push the low end with a Curvebender. They'll often EQ a certain way to start, compress/limit to get a part of the frequency spectrum to be where they want, EQ again to bring back what they perceive they've lost/compromised with the compression and to hit their imagined ideal frequency response, and then compress/limit/clip to get final level. I work in the same way when getting driven/distorted guitar tones. I'll choose a guitar that sets up the input of my pedal chain to react the way I want (as an example: if I'm using a classic fuzz pedal, I probably want a midrange-heavy guitar tone into it because many of those classic fuzz tones are scooped as heck). I'll do that in order to feed the guitar amp with the character I want it to see. It'll distort/drive differently depending on that signal level (a bassy-er sound will give more sustain when gained up, midrange-y will be more insistent/percussive, and a brighter sound will give more bite). Then that hits speakers which react differently to those frequency responses and those distortion characteristics...and then mics and preamps and compressors. Oh my! |
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Post by Guitar on May 17, 2022 6:37:17 GMT -6
yeah schmalzy "sound design" is an art even with these kinds of instruments, it's 85% of what we do, I think. other than kind of knowing how stuff works. |
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Post by schmalzy on May 17, 2022 23:46:25 GMT -6
yeah schmalzy "sound design" is an art even with these kinds of instruments, it's 85% of what we do, I think. other than kind of knowing how stuff works. Right. But I don't think people often think of it in a mastering scenario. It's the guitar tone example played out in micro details (or larger) at the end of the whole production process with the same sort of guitar tone sound design procedure. Using the right tools to manipulate specific portions of the signal in order to satisfy the intended aesthetic and optimize it for the intended use. It's all endlessly fascinating, for sure! I think my mastering results have gotten a lot better since I started approaching it in those ways...but I definitely didn't draw those parallels early on in my mastering work! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 22, 2024 13:01:01 GMT -6
Road to Ensenada, -12.5 LUFS. About on par for a more thoughtfully/less slammed mastering in 1996, but still caught up in that post-95 limiter driven race. Two, -9.4 LUFS. Sounds like 2007. It's not "Flagpole Sitta" from 1997 in terms of the most crushed sections, but it doesn't even attempt to sneak in any contrast either. Tapping the ceiling from start to finish. Are these levels being pulled from any streaming services? That be interesting to see what the levels are on Spotify/YouTube since they are supposed to normalize to the same level but I’ve seen tests where people are mastering above the reccommended level and their masters are indeed coming out louder on those streaming services I don't know the answer to this...and maybe I shoulda read the whole thread...but isn't there a setting where you can turn the normalization off in all of these? I know I have mine off in itunes...Ii mixed and mastered an ep years ago at -14 LUFS - like Apple asks for...and it is DRAMATICALLY less loud than any other commercial release. So screw that...Now I try and get to at least -8 LUFS. IT's kinda sad, but for 90% of the people, less loud = worse. |
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Post by lee on Feb 22, 2024 15:22:19 GMT -6
Are we talking about for submittal to mastering? Or just in general? I prefer to observe 0VU and mix at production levels and let the mastering engineer "master for the medium."
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
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Post by ericn on Feb 22, 2024 15:33:45 GMT -6
Crash Test Dummies - Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm. 1994, -11.6 LUFS, still sounds fantastic, but we're starting to lose headroom. [br Yeah but that was 16 bit 50 HZ Mitsubishi x850. |
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