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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 17:27:22 GMT -6
I would assume in a set up like yours, that staying in the AVID universe is damn near mandatory. I don't know if it's mandatory or not. It's just how I did (do) it, and it works flawlessly. Why try to recreate the wheel? If it works, it works. Well, Logic is thousands cheaper and doesn't require a sub for one. Now they've bothered to sort out the last ADC issues (10.6 onwards) there isn't any real benefit to us who are primarily hybrid. If you're still running a lot of heavy hitting plugs then UA or HDX might still render some benefit, I use like 5 or so plugs and a couple are zero latency stock Logic utility pieces which doesn't require a lot of CPU processing.
With my hybrid setup, which is smaller than yours but still has nearly 40 pieces of HW hooked up I can leave my interface at 32 samples all day long. VI's are a PITA though, that is one place where I'd consider DSP but the rest seems inconsequential unless you're running a MAC from like 2010..
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Post by Quint on Jun 19, 2022 17:53:52 GMT -6
I hear what you're saying, but I also have reason to trust Lynx to keep up with this kind of stuff and provide firmware updates accordingly. I gotcha. That works until AVID doesn't want it to work anymore. It's happened before. I'm betting that it will happen again. . You know....AVID is AVID. I'm ok with that.
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Post by drbill on Jun 19, 2022 20:30:07 GMT -6
I don't know if it's mandatory or not. It's just how I did (do) it, and it works flawlessly. Why try to recreate the wheel? If it works, it works. Well, Logic is thousands cheaper and doesn't require a sub for one. Now they've bothered to sort out the last ADC issues (10.6 onwards) there isn't any real benefit to us who are primarily hybrid. If you're still running a lot of heavy hitting plugs then UA or HDX might still render some benefit, I use like 5 or so plugs and a couple are zero latency stock Logic utility pieces which doesn't require a lot of CPU processing.
With my hybrid setup, which is smaller than yours but still has nearly 40 pieces of HW hooked up I can leave my interface at 32 samples all day long. VI's are a PITA though, that is one place where I'd consider DSP but the rest seems inconsequential unless you're running a MAC from like 2010..
Does it matter if I absolute LOATHE / HATE / DESPISE Logic? ***No offense to anyone who's rocking it!!! PS - I've been using PT since the mid 90's and never run a subscription. Even now. Perpetual all the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 20:54:00 GMT -6
Does it matter if I absolute LOATHE / HATE / DESPISE Logic? ***No offense to anyone who's rocking it!!! PS - I've been using PT since the mid 90's and never run a subscription. Even now. Perpetual all the way. You're not the only one Bill, I find it completely counter intuitive and it took ages to get to grips. Even from a midi editing position, Logic might be stronger and have more features but Pro Tools is far easier. The issue is in Avid's great wisdom they no longer offer perpetual, if you're ever going to upgrade again you'll need a sub..
Pro Tools native (or studio) is a bit of a joke and always has been, sorry if that grates on anyone but 10 / 11 / 12 was an ADC mess and even today it still has features missing (like the HW ping function). HDX is great if you stuck with a certain version and plan to never change, that's not an option for everyone though. At a core level Logic can do the same if not more and just like some pieces of HW it comes down to one simple matter.. How much is your preference worth? For me it was less than what Avid were asking.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 19, 2022 22:50:30 GMT -6
Does it matter if I absolute LOATHE / HATE / DESPISE Logic? ***No offense to anyone who's rocking it!!! PS - I've been using PT since the mid 90's and never run a subscription. Even now. Perpetual all the way. You're not the only one Bill, I find it completely counter intuitive and it took ages to get to grips. Even from a midi editing position, Logic might be stronger and have more features but Pro Tools is far easier. The issue is in Avid's great wisdom they no longer offer perpetual, if you're ever going to upgrade again you'll need a sub..
Pro Tools native (or studio) is a bit of a joke and always has been, sorry if that grates on anyone but 10 / 11 / 12 was an ADC mess and even today it still has features missing (like the HW ping function). HDX is great if you stuck with a certain version and plan to never change, that's not an option for everyone though. At a core level Logic can do the same if not more and just like some pieces of HW it comes down to one simple matter.. How much is your preference worth? For me it was less than what Avid were asking.
I'ts my understanding that one can't buy a new perpetual license. I.E. you just graduated from school and have to buy your own PT, then yes, you have no choice but subscription (unless you find a dealer that bought a bunch of perpetual licenses, and still has some). But if you are already in perpetual world, you may remain there, including the option for upgrades.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 23:10:02 GMT -6
But if you are already in perpetual world, you may remain there, including the option for upgrades. Sort of, you can subscribe to maintenance plan if you have a perpetual for the standard yearly rate but still retain your perpetual. You cannot buy a perpetual or crossgrade though, also it depends on the version. I have Pro Tools HD 8, there is no way for me to get to the latest version unless I go onto a sub.
So, I wouldn't let your version get too out of date as later versions of MacOS for example will require newer Pro Tools versions.
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Post by drbill on Jun 20, 2022 0:42:30 GMT -6
I just bought an up to date perpetual license a couple months ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 1:25:37 GMT -6
I just bought an up to date perpetual license a couple months ago. Cool but that'll be back stock, you can't get them once they've run out. Just a heads up Bill, I have no stock in this and as I said I prefer Pro Tools. If it was a reasonable decision for me to jump back into it I would.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 20, 2022 1:56:26 GMT -6
But if you are already in perpetual world, you may remain there, including the option for upgrades. Sort of, you can subscribe to maintenance plan if you have a perpetual for the standard yearly rate but still retain your perpetual. You cannot buy a perpetual or crossgrade though, also it depends on the version. I have Pro Tools HD 8, there is no way for me to get to the latest version unless I go onto a sub.
So, I wouldn't let your version get too out of date as later versions of MacOS for example will require newer Pro Tools versions.
you can buy a year of upgrades at any time still with a Perpetual.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 2:00:21 GMT -6
Sort of, you can subscribe to maintenance plan if you have a perpetual for the standard yearly rate but still retain your perpetual. You cannot buy a perpetual or crossgrade though, also it depends on the version. I have Pro Tools HD 8, there is no way for me to get to the latest version unless I go onto a sub.
So, I wouldn't let your version get too out of date as later versions of MacOS for example will require newer Pro Tools versions.
you can buy a year of upgrades at any time still with a Perpetual. I checked and because mine has lapsed for so many years I couldn't find a way to do it, I'd end up on a sub only.. Any links or info?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 20, 2022 2:04:18 GMT -6
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 20, 2022 14:27:11 GMT -6
My fear on this one is someone is going to realize it would be cheaper and easier to do this in UAD 3 or what ever comes next, yeah I’m a cynic. Totally un-useful to the discussion, as we're never going to know if there will be a UAD3. They've only indicated they plan to support UAD-2 and now UADx native. Not ending support for anything. The simple fact that many have been here before, make’s it worth discussion, as much as a company will state we have learned from the past, can be interpreted as history will be repeated. Living primarily in the live world these days I keep seeing the Waves / Digico Soundgrid system, can’t help but think UAD is going to want a piece of this. Live latency is a big issue so a nice DSP based system makes sense ( why big AVID desks are so popular). I’m going to bet UAD can build a better mouse trap.
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Post by deaconblues on Jun 20, 2022 18:39:14 GMT -6
Totally un-useful to the discussion, as we're never going to know if there will be a UAD3. They've only indicated they plan to support UAD-2 and now UADx native. Not ending support for anything. …Living primarily in the live world these days I keep seeing the Waves / Digico Soundgrid system, can’t help but think UAD is going to want a piece of this. Live latency is a big issue so a nice DSP based system makes sense ( why big AVID desks are so popular). I’m going to bet UAD can build a better mouse trap. RIP: www.uaudio.com/uad-accelerators/uad2-live-rack.htmlAlthough, flex routing with an Apollo is still an option: www.uaudio.com/blog/apollo-flex-routing/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2022 19:16:26 GMT -6
Cool but I don't have any Avid HW, investing X into MRTX + a HDX card seems a bit wasteful just to use a DAW. Carbon doesn't have enough I/O.. It's nice and simple with my current DAW setup, I bought Logic for about 200 and that's it.. Nothing more to it (ever).
Also dropped the UA platform, don't need it with that amount of HW. I can see the allure of a Pro Tools setup but cost and necessity wasn't in its favour.
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Post by ericn on Jun 20, 2022 19:58:14 GMT -6
…Living primarily in the live world these days I keep seeing the Waves / Digico Soundgrid system, can’t help but think UAD is going to want a piece of this. Live latency is a big issue so a nice DSP based system makes sense ( why big AVID desks are so popular). I’m going to bet UAD can build a better mouse trap. RIP: www.uaudio.com/uad-accelerators/uad2-live-rack.htmlAlthough, flex routing with an Apollo is still an option: www.uaudio.com/blog/apollo-flex-routing/Yeah I saw one, but they needed to do like Waves / Digico and use a dedicated buss structure that the console more or less understands. And recognizes. You can tell Digico had more to do with the interface than Waves, even if you were limited to 16 effects per I/o card. I only know one guy who runs the UAD vs a handful running DIGIGRID plus a few running the dedicated but very limited waves 56K or 96K cards.
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Post by Quint on Jun 20, 2022 20:06:00 GMT -6
Cool but I don't have any Avid HW, investing X into MRTX + a HDX card seems a bit wasteful just to use a DAW. Carbon doesn't have enough I/O.. It's nice and simple with my current DAW setup, I bought Logic for about 200 and that's it.. Nothing more to it (ever). Also dropped the UA platform, don't need it with that amount of HW. I can see the allure of a Pro Tools setup but cost and necessity wasn't in its favour. Yeah, I can't really justify paying $10k for a 16 channel MTRX or HD I/O plus a HDX card and the PT software. Granted, I could probably find this stuff on the used market for less money, but still... Anyway, if I ever decided to move away from my Apollo/Luna setup, I'd either go PT native with 32 channels of Lynx Aurora (n) or just go straight native with Reaper and the aforementioned Auroras.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 20, 2022 22:51:22 GMT -6
Cool but I don't have any Avid HW, investing X into MRTX + a HDX card seems a bit wasteful just to use a DAW. Carbon doesn't have enough I/O.. It's nice and simple with my current DAW setup, I bought Logic for about 200 and that's it.. Nothing more to it (ever). Also dropped the UA platform, don't need it with that amount of HW. I can see the allure of a Pro Tools setup but cost and necessity wasn't in its favour. Yeah, I can't really justify paying $10k for a 16 channel MTRX or HD I/O plus a HDX card and the PT software. Granted, I could probably find this stuff on the used market for less money, but still... Anyway, if I ever decided to move away from my Apollo/Luna setup, I'd either go PT native with 32 channels of Lynx Aurora (n) or just go straight native with Reaper and the aforementioned Auroras. I waited and found an HDX card for 1500 used. I'm using old Digi 192 interfaces which are like 400-600 each. Can't do as much simultaneous Analog I/O as a newer Avid I/O but still a hell of a deal. The Avid I/O sounds better too. But hey, the Digi 192 is on thousands of hit records. So that's not gonna stop me. Plus I use the Digital I/O on one to my Merging HAPI.
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Post by notneeson on Jun 21, 2022 11:18:06 GMT -6
Yeah, I can't really justify paying $10k for a 16 channel MTRX or HD I/O plus a HDX card and the PT software. Granted, I could probably find this stuff on the used market for less money, but still... Anyway, if I ever decided to move away from my Apollo/Luna setup, I'd either go PT native with 32 channels of Lynx Aurora (n) or just go straight native with Reaper and the aforementioned Auroras. I waited and found an HDX card for 1500 used. I'm using old Digi 192 interfaces which are like 400-600 each. Can't do as much simultaneous Analog I/O as a newer Avid I/O but still a hell of a deal. The Avid I/O sounds better too. But hey, the Digi 192 is on thousands of hit records. So that's not gonna stop me. Plus I use the Digital I/O on one to my Merging HAPI. At this point, you kinda have to thank Mixerman for shitting on 192s so hard when he was the internet’s most famous (anonymous) engineer. They’re a bargain now! Neck and neck with the old Auroras for pennies on the dollar.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 21, 2022 11:31:52 GMT -6
I waited and found an HDX card for 1500 used. I'm using old Digi 192 interfaces which are like 400-600 each. Can't do as much simultaneous Analog I/O as a newer Avid I/O but still a hell of a deal. The Avid I/O sounds better too. But hey, the Digi 192 is on thousands of hit records. So that's not gonna stop me. Plus I use the Digital I/O on one to my Merging HAPI. At this point, you kinda have to thank Mixerman for shitting on 192s so hard when he was the internet’s most famous (anonymous) engineer. They’re a bargain now! Neck and neck with the old Auroras for pennies on the dollar. Yeah I can't complain! I use them for inserts and my HAPI for the main bus and other more "important" things. Works great. Next unit will likely but a full 16x16 Avid I/O analog. My only complaint is they take up a good amount of space. The Lynx and Orion HD are tempting with 32ch in 1u. I do think when I finally if ever get a Sumbus I'd consider an Orion HD to drive that. I've read of issues with the Orion not being sample accurate as inserts but for just the final outputs to a summing mixer it would be fine.
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Post by Quint on Jun 21, 2022 11:47:27 GMT -6
At this point, you kinda have to thank Mixerman for shitting on 192s so hard when he was the internet’s most famous (anonymous) engineer. They’re a bargain now! Neck and neck with the old Auroras for pennies on the dollar. Yeah I can't complain! I use them for inserts and my HAPI for the main bus and other more "important" things. Works great. Next unit will likely but a full 16x16 Avid I/O analog. My only complaint is they take up a good amount of space. The Lynx and Orion HD are tempting with 32ch in 1u. I do think when I finally if ever get a Sumbus I'd consider an Orion HD to drive that. I've read of issues with the Orion not being sample accurate as inserts but for just the final outputs to a summing mixer it would be fine. Did you find a perpetual Ultimate license somewhere, or did you just go with the new Flex? If you went with the perpetual, what did it cost?
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2022 13:34:00 GMT -6
My latest perpetual HD Ultimate license cost somewhere between $350-400 - I forget exactly how much. Got it from my under the radar PT guru guy - not SW or VK!!
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2022 17:07:43 GMT -6
My latest perpetual HD Ultimate license cost somewhere between $350-400 - I forget exactly how much. Got it from my under the radar PT guru guy - not SW or VK!! Yeah the problem with the renewals is most buy direct or online, nobody calls there guy and see if he can deal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 18:12:32 GMT -6
My latest perpetual HD Ultimate license cost somewhere between $350-400 - I forget exactly how much. Got it from my under the radar PT guru guy - not SW or VK!! My offer from KMR was the equivalent of $250.00, still not interested ..
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Post by Quint on Jun 21, 2022 18:19:11 GMT -6
The costs being thrown around in the last few posts are all for renewals though, correct?
What would it cost to buy a new perpetual Ultimate license, provided you could still find one in stock anywhere at this point?
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2022 18:26:19 GMT -6
My latest perpetual HD Ultimate license cost somewhere between $350-400 - I forget exactly how much. Got it from my under the radar PT guru guy - not SW or VK!! Yeah the problem with the renewals is most buy direct or online, nobody calls there guy and see if he can deal. When it comes to Macs or Pro Tools / AVID, I Never, EVER, EVER buy anything online. I always talk to my guy. When folks were paying $4500 for HD interfaces from SW, I was getting them for around $2k. New. With handholding, and service that's spectacular compared to the normal suspects. I'd be gulping too if I was paying what VK and SW are asking online.
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