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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2022 18:27:22 GMT -6
My latest perpetual HD Ultimate license cost somewhere between $350-400 - I forget exactly how much. Got it from my under the radar PT guru guy - not SW or VK!! My offer from KMR was the equivalent of $250.00, still not interested .. Wait - you're buying tons of hardware, like PT more than logic, and are not interested in paying $250 for a perpetual license? OK then....
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2022 18:28:31 GMT -6
The costs being thrown around in the last few posts are all for renewals though, correct? What would it cost to buy a new perpetual Ultimate license, provided you could still find one in stock anywhere at this point? Folks "trade in" their perpetuals all the time. These can be transferred and then upgraded. You just need to talk to the right salesperson.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 18:32:24 GMT -6
My offer from KMR was the equivalent of $250.00, still not interested .. Wait - you're buying tons of hardware, like PT more than logic, and are not interested in paying $250 for a perpetual license? OK then.... I think you're forgetting MTRX and the HDX cards, for that price I can buy plenty of shiny HW I want ( once again I don't have any Avid HW). Also what can Pro Tools do that Logic can't? (Forget DSP, my macbook isn't from the stone age) Yeah it's annoying but it's a matter of learning, in reality Logic can do far more.
Also, there was a tad bit of humour in there hence the smiley.
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2022 21:14:50 GMT -6
Wait - you're buying tons of hardware, like PT more than logic, and are not interested in paying $250 for a perpetual license? OK then.... I think you're forgetting MTRX and the HDX cards, for that price I can buy plenty of shiny HW I want ( once again I don't have any Avid HW). Also what can Pro Tools do that Logic can't? (Forget DSP, my macbook isn't from the stone age) Yeah it's annoying but it's a matter of learning, in reality Logic can do far more.
Also, there was a tad bit of humour in there hence the smiley.
I love hardware and gear as much or maybe more than the average AE, but IMO, HDX is far and away the most important piece of gear I have. To each his own! In my world, PT is far more full featured than Logic. It all depends on how you use em. As mentioned before, no offense to ANYone who uses and loves Logic. But it's not for me, no matter how cheap it might be to run or how expensive HDX might be to run.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 21, 2022 21:39:05 GMT -6
The costs being thrown around in the last few posts are all for renewals though, correct? What would it cost to buy a new perpetual Ultimate license, provided you could still find one in stock anywhere at this point? Technically, there are no more perpetual Licenses. You can't buy one new per say. But if dealers have any left on the shelf you can. Once you have it. You can just pay the upgrade fee for support/updates every few years as you see fit.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 21, 2022 21:41:39 GMT -6
I think you're forgetting MTRX and the HDX cards, for that price I can buy plenty of shiny HW I want ( once again I don't have any Avid HW). Also what can Pro Tools do that Logic can't? (Forget DSP, my macbook isn't from the stone age) Yeah it's annoying but it's a matter of learning, in reality Logic can do far more.
Also, there was a tad bit of humour in there hence the smiley.
I love hardware and gear as much or maybe more than the average AE, but IMO, HDX is far and away the most important piece of gear I have. To each his own! In my world, PT is far more full featured than Logic. It all depends on how you use em. As mentioned before, no offense to ANYone who uses and loves Logic. But it's not for me, no matter how cheap it might be to run or how expensive HDX might be to run. Also if you do anything will Film work(Sound design, dialog editing, score mixing, Rerecording Mixing) Protools wins that fight every time. Nuendo is the only DAW IMO that can hold a candle to PT in terms of post work. And THAT is why it will remain a big standard in the industry for a LONG time. Not for music mixing. I mean, plenty use it for that obviously, but its only 1 candle in its flame of features and work flows.
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Post by drbill on Jun 22, 2022 0:14:29 GMT -6
I love hardware and gear as much or maybe more than the average AE, but IMO, HDX is far and away the most important piece of gear I have. To each his own! In my world, PT is far more full featured than Logic. It all depends on how you use em. As mentioned before, no offense to ANYone who uses and loves Logic. But it's not for me, no matter how cheap it might be to run or how expensive HDX might be to run. Also if you do anything will Film work(Sound design, dialog editing, score mixing, Rerecording Mixing) Protools wins that fight every time. Nuendo is the only DAW IMO that can hold a candle to PT in terms of post work. And THAT is why it will remain a big standard in the industry for a LONG time. Not for music mixing. I mean, plenty use it for that obviously, but its only 1 candle in its flame of features and work flows. Indeed. I've done all of that in the past. Rarely these days though... But I think it bears saying that since my first 8 channel system (2 442's) in the early-90's - PT DSP based systems (442, Mix, 24 Mix, HD, HDX) have by FAR made me more money than everything else I've ever had in the studio combined - consoles (10-ish), Tape (2" + Dig + pretty much all other standards), Outboard, Mics, everything put together. I've had multiple PT systems running for decades now.... Something to consider as most of us try to make this a viable business model in a failing industry....
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Post by Quint on Jun 22, 2022 1:43:04 GMT -6
The costs being thrown around in the last few posts are all for renewals though, correct? What would it cost to buy a new perpetual Ultimate license, provided you could still find one in stock anywhere at this point? Technically, there are no more perpetual Licenses. You can't buy one new per say. But if dealers have any left on the shelf you can. Once you have it. You can just pay the upgrade fee for support/updates every few years as you see fit. Right, I understand that. But that's why I'm asking what it would cost to buy a perpetual Ultimate license, if you could find one. What are some of you paying for one? The prices being recently discussed in this thread seem to be associated with renewals and not with purchasing a license for the first time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 1:49:03 GMT -6
I love hardware and gear as much or maybe more than the average AE, but IMO, HDX is far and away the most important piece of gear I have. To each his own! In my world, PT is far more full featured than Logic. It all depends on how you use em. As mentioned before, no offense to ANYone who uses and loves Logic. But it's not for me, no matter how cheap it might be to run or how expensive HDX might be to run. I'm not trying to convince you to switch Bill, it has no bearing on me. Avid has made it extremely difficult to justify getting back into their ecosystem, DAW's like Logic etc. have also made it difficult in terms of music production.
It's a bit like a mixing desk for me, I really enjoy working with them but from the outside looking in I can't come up with a good enough reason to go in that direction. But if I'd fully invested in HDX then there wouldn't be much point in switching. Unfortunately I bought into the native stuff too early and originally it didn't work out too well, nowaday's however there's more than one decent alternative. If Avid made Pro Tools Studio the best it possibly could be with third party interfaces I could be persuaded, until that happens it just seems like additional cost.
Anyway, I wouldn't say that I love Logic but it certainly does the job.
Quint , I was curious also. I got quoted $1900.00..
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 22, 2022 1:58:17 GMT -6
I love hardware and gear as much or maybe more than the average AE, but IMO, HDX is far and away the most important piece of gear I have. To each his own! In my world, PT is far more full featured than Logic. It all depends on how you use em. As mentioned before, no offense to ANYone who uses and loves Logic. But it's not for me, no matter how cheap it might be to run or how expensive HDX might be to run. I'm not trying to convince you to switch Bill, it has no bearing on me. Avid has made it extremely difficult to justify getting back into their ecosystem, DAW's like Logic etc. have also made it difficult in terms of music production.
It's a bit like a mixing desk for me, I really enjoy working with them but from the outside looking in I can't come up with a good enough reason to go in that direction. But if I'd fully invested in HDX then there wouldn't be much point in switching. Unfortunately I bought into the native stuff too early and originally it didn't work out too well, nowaday's however there's more than one decent alternative. If Avid made Pro Tools Studio the best it possibly could be with third party interfaces I could be persuaded, until that happens it just seems like additional cost.
Anyway, I wouldn't say that I love Logic but it certainly does the job.
Quint , I was curious also. I got quoted $1900.00.. Studio will never get fully unlocked. Because protools ultimate or whatever it's called now, can run natively. If you want the best protools has to offer that's the software you get. You don't need hdx hardware to run ultimate. So there is not point in making studio way better.
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Post by Quint on Jun 22, 2022 1:58:21 GMT -6
I love hardware and gear as much or maybe more than the average AE, but IMO, HDX is far and away the most important piece of gear I have. To each his own! In my world, PT is far more full featured than Logic. It all depends on how you use em. As mentioned before, no offense to ANYone who uses and loves Logic. But it's not for me, no matter how cheap it might be to run or how expensive HDX might be to run. I'm not trying to convince you to switch Bill, it has no bearing on me. Avid has made it extremely difficult to justify getting back into their ecosystem, DAW's like Logic have also made it difficult in terms of music production.
It's a bit like a mixing desk for me, I really enjoy working with them but from the outside looking in I can't come up with a good enough reason to go in that direction. But if I'd fully invested in HDX then there wouldn't be much point in switching. Unfortunately I bought into the native stuff too early and originally it didn't work out too well, nowaday's however there's more than one decent alternative. If Avid made Pro Tools Studio the best it possibly could be with third party interfaces I could be persuaded, however until that happens it all just seems like additional cost.
Anyway, I wouldn't say that I love Logic but it certainly does the job.
Quint , I was curious also. I got quoted $1900.00.. That seems to be in the ball park of what I've seen, and it's usually bundled with a core card. But I have gotten the impression that one could buy a perpetual license in a standalone fashion, and possibly at a cheaper price, if you know who to talk to, than the ~$2000ish figure I've seen around.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 22, 2022 1:59:12 GMT -6
Technically, there are no more perpetual Licenses. You can't buy one new per say. But if dealers have any left on the shelf you can. Once you have it. You can just pay the upgrade fee for support/updates every few years as you see fit. Right, I understand that. But that's why I'm asking what it would cost to buy a perpetual Ultimate license, if you could find one. What are some of you paying for one? The prices being recently discussed in this thread seem to be associated with renewals and not with purchasing a license for the first time. I honestly don't remember. Maybe 1000? Which seems high but it's about the same a nuendo and pyramix is more expensive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 2:11:27 GMT -6
Studio will never get fully unlocked. Because protools ultimate or whatever it's called now, can run natively. If you want the best protools has to offer that's the software you get. You don't need hdx hardware to run ultimate. So there is not point in making studio way better. You don't need it but I wouldn't dare not to use it, AFAIK the major benefit is compensation for input and output delay. Also I have a lot of HW and whilst everything is phase aligned on a HDX system I've heard of too many issues with third party interfaces.
I might be a bit tin foil about the situation but after the mess that Pro Tools Native 9 / 10 caused with third party interfaces I'm not sure I'd trust it. Feel free to correct me though because as said I certainly prefer Pro Tools to Logic. I could swallow an Ultimate perpetual easy enough, when the HW gets involved it's a no go..
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Post by Quint on Jun 22, 2022 2:11:43 GMT -6
I'm not trying to convince you to switch Bill, it has no bearing on me. Avid has made it extremely difficult to justify getting back into their ecosystem, DAW's like Logic etc. have also made it difficult in terms of music production.
It's a bit like a mixing desk for me, I really enjoy working with them but from the outside looking in I can't come up with a good enough reason to go in that direction. But if I'd fully invested in HDX then there wouldn't be much point in switching. Unfortunately I bought into the native stuff too early and originally it didn't work out too well, nowaday's however there's more than one decent alternative. If Avid made Pro Tools Studio the best it possibly could be with third party interfaces I could be persuaded, until that happens it just seems like additional cost.
Anyway, I wouldn't say that I love Logic but it certainly does the job.
Quint , I was curious also. I got quoted $1900.00.. Studio will never get fully unlocked. Because protools ultimate or whatever it's called now, can run natively. If you want the best protools has to offer that's the software you get. You don't need hdx hardware to run ultimate. So there is not point in making studio way better. But you do need Ultimate, or now Flex that replaces it, if you DO want to use HDX hardware. With the new subscription plan, Flex is $100 a month. I don't love that at all. In the previous format, a renewal would just be several hundred a year, not $1200. Which is why I'm asking what it would cost to buy a perpetual license now, while you still stand a chance of finding one in stock somewhere.
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Post by Quint on Jun 22, 2022 2:21:23 GMT -6
Studio will never get fully unlocked. Because protools ultimate or whatever it's called now, can run natively. If you want the best protools has to offer that's the software you get. You don't need hdx hardware to run ultimate. So there is not point in making studio way better. You don't need it but I wouldn't dare not to use it, AFAIK the major benefit is compensation for input and output delay. Also I have a lot of HW and whilst everything is phase aligned on a HDX system I've heard of too many issues with third party interfaces.
I might be a bit tin foil about the situation but after the mess that Pro Tools Native 9 / 10 caused with third party interfaces I'm not sure I'd trust it. Feel free to correct me though because as said I certainly prefer Pro Tools to Logic. I could swallow an Ultimate perpetual easy enough, when the HW gets involved it's a no go..
It sounds like we have similar thinking on this. The only way I'd consider any of this is if I could find and purchase a perpetual license for a not-crazy amount of money. And then I might consider eventually getting a core card IF I could find a used one or whatever in the $1500 price range that Blackdawg mentioned. But $5k for a core card, plus more for the software? No thanks. As for the interfaces, yeah I have similar fears. Now if running through a core card, third party interfaces like the Aurora don't scare me so much. But running a third party interface natively with PT does scare me because of the issues with hardware inserts that you mentioned. That is unless someone can convince me otherwise.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 22, 2022 9:31:35 GMT -6
Studio will never get fully unlocked. Because protools ultimate or whatever it's called now, can run natively. If you want the best protools has to offer that's the software you get. You don't need hdx hardware to run ultimate. So there is not point in making studio way better. You don't need it but I wouldn't dare not to use it, AFAIK the major benefit is compensation for input and output delay. Also I have a lot of HW and whilst everything is phase aligned on a HDX system I've heard of too many issues with third party interfaces.
I might be a bit tin foil about the situation but after the mess that Pro Tools Native 9 / 10 caused with third party interfaces I'm not sure I'd trust it. Feel free to correct me though because as said I certainly prefer Pro Tools to Logic. I could swallow an Ultimate perpetual easy enough, when the HW gets involved it's a no go..
There are in fact a few nice features that come with Ultimate/Flex that Studio does not come with. That gap did close a bit in this latest revamp. But there are still features in Ultimate that are quite nice. Clip FX for instance. The VERY powerful advanced automation features being another. Which is also one of the things a LOT of people don't know about or how to use as they have never had it. But it's also a game changer. Studio will never get fully unlocked. Because protools ultimate or whatever it's called now, can run natively. If you want the best protools has to offer that's the software you get. You don't need hdx hardware to run ultimate. So there is not point in making studio way better. But you do need Ultimate, or now Flex that replaces it, if you DO want to use HDX hardware. With the new subscription plan, Flex is $100 a month. I don't love that at all. In the previous format, a renewal would just be several hundred a year, not $1200. Which is why I'm asking what it would cost to buy a perpetual license now, while you still stand a chance of finding one in stock somewhere. Got it. Flex, couldn't remember that. But yes if you want to use HDX you must be on Flex software.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 22, 2022 14:05:02 GMT -6
You don't need it but I wouldn't dare not to use it, AFAIK the major benefit is compensation for input and output delay. Also I have a lot of HW and whilst everything is phase aligned on a HDX system I've heard of too many issues with third party interfaces.
I might be a bit tin foil about the situation but after the mess that Pro Tools Native 9 / 10 caused with third party interfaces I'm not sure I'd trust it. Feel free to correct me though because as said I certainly prefer Pro Tools to Logic. I could swallow an Ultimate perpetual easy enough, when the HW gets involved it's a no go..
There are in fact a few nice features that come with Ultimate/Flex that Studio does not come with. That gap did close a bit in this latest revamp. But there are still features in Ultimate that are quite nice. Clip FX for instance. The VERY powerful advanced automation features being another. Which is also one of the things a LOT of people don't know about or how to use as they have never had it. But it's also a game changer. But you do need Ultimate, or now Flex that replaces it, if you DO want to use HDX hardware. With the new subscription plan, Flex is $100 a month. I don't love that at all. In the previous format, a renewal would just be several hundred a year, not $1200. Which is why I'm asking what it would cost to buy a perpetual license now, while you still stand a chance of finding one in stock somewhere. Got it. Flex, couldn't remember that. But yes if you want to use HDX you must be on Flex software. What are these advanced automation features you speak of?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 22, 2022 16:06:57 GMT -6
There are in fact a few nice features that come with Ultimate/Flex that Studio does not come with. That gap did close a bit in this latest revamp. But there are still features in Ultimate that are quite nice. Clip FX for instance. The VERY powerful advanced automation features being another. Which is also one of the things a LOT of people don't know about or how to use as they have never had it. But it's also a game changer. Got it. Flex, couldn't remember that. But yes if you want to use HDX you must be on Flex software. What are these advanced automation features you speak of? Ha it actually looks like the new version of Protools Studio comes iwth Clip FX! so that is cool. Advanced automation though. Capture Preview Automation Merge Write to selection Trim And a lot more. I know these videos arent free, but kind of shows you how much there is to cover on it: www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/pro-tools-advanced-automation-expert-tutorial-seriesShould be able to find Youtube videos though going over these topics. I'm not sure if the new Studio also comes with some of these features or not. Also looks like auto delay compensation for sidechains is not included in Studio. Edit: Ha! I think studio has advanced automation in it! At least it's a listed feature. I don't have it so can't confirm.
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Post by subspace on Jun 26, 2022 10:16:17 GMT -6
What are these advanced automation features you speak of? Ha it actually looks like the new version of Protools Studio comes iwth Clip FX! so that is cool. Advanced automation though. Capture Preview Automation Merge Write to selection Trim And a lot more. I know these videos arent free, but kind of shows you how much there is to cover on it: www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/pro-tools-advanced-automation-expert-tutorial-seriesShould be able to find Youtube videos though going over these topics. I'm not sure if the new Studio also comes with some of these features or not. Also looks like auto delay compensation for sidechains is not included in Studio. Edit: Ha! I think studio has advanced automation in it! At least it's a listed feature. I don't have it so can't confirm. My Carbon perpetual was updated to Studio, so now comes with clip FX, advanced automation, and the updated voice/track counts. I let the support plan expire on it in January as the parachute perpetual has a unique feature where you can flip it back to subscription when there's a release you want to update to and your perpetual license will stay at that new version when the subscription expires again. One more unique Avid license flavor for the stew. Got a free perpetual Ultimate license with Carbon as well, but haven't found a reason to activate it with the new features the Studio update added.
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deif
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Post by deif on Jun 27, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -6
Ha it actually looks like the new version of Protools Studio comes iwth Clip FX! so that is cool. Advanced automation though. Capture Preview Automation Merge Write to selection Trim And a lot more. I know these videos arent free, but kind of shows you how much there is to cover on it: www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/pro-tools-advanced-automation-expert-tutorial-seriesShould be able to find Youtube videos though going over these topics. I'm not sure if the new Studio also comes with some of these features or not. Also looks like auto delay compensation for sidechains is not included in Studio. Edit: Ha! I think studio has advanced automation in it! At least it's a listed feature. I don't have it so can't confirm. My Carbon perpetual was updated to Studio, so now comes with clip FX, advanced automation, and the updated voice/track counts. I let the support plan expire on it in January as the parachute perpetual has a unique feature where you can flip it back to subscription when there's a release you want to update to and your perpetual license will stay at that new version when the subscription expires again. One more unique Avid license flavor for the stew. Got a free perpetual Ultimate license with Carbon as well, but haven't found a reason to activate it with the new features the Studio update added. I was wondering if this was a glitch. I don’t have a subscription plan anymore but my old perpetual license still works with the last version I updated to when I had an active subscription.
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Post by subspace on Jun 27, 2022 8:04:00 GMT -6
My Carbon perpetual was updated to Studio, so now comes with clip FX, advanced automation, and the updated voice/track counts. I let the support plan expire on it in January as the parachute perpetual has a unique feature where you can flip it back to subscription when there's a release you want to update to and your perpetual license will stay at that new version when the subscription expires again. One more unique Avid license flavor for the stew. Got a free perpetual Ultimate license with Carbon as well, but haven't found a reason to activate it with the new features the Studio update added. I was wondering if this was a glitch. I don’t have a subscription plan anymore but my old perpetual license still works with the last version I updated to when I had an active subscription. That's the way the annual support/updates plan is supposed to work with a perpetual license, pay for support/updates and it will freeze your perpetual at the last released version as of the plan's expiration. Subscriptions just cease functioning all together when they expire as there's no perpetual license. Did you have a subscription license in addition to your perpetual (two licenses?) or was it an annual support/updates plan for your perpetual?
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deif
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Post by deif on Jun 27, 2022 8:48:35 GMT -6
I was wondering if this was a glitch. I don’t have a subscription plan anymore but my old perpetual license still works with the last version I updated to when I had an active subscription. That's the way the annual support/updates plan is supposed to work with a perpetual license, pay for support/updates and it will freeze your perpetual at the last released version as of the plan's expiration. Subscriptions just cease functioning all together when they expire as there's no perpetual license. Did you have a subscription license in addition to your perpetual (two licenses?) or was it an annual support/updates plan for your perpetual? I surrendered my perpetual license 2 or 3 years ago when I switched to subscription at a discounted price so I don’t have the ability to reinstate it anymore. It still shows as a perpetual license in my iLok account but I can only run the last version I had under subscription (2021.12). I don’t have an active subscription. As a test, I downloaded and installed 2022.5 using my work avid account but it wouldn’t run. I reinstalled 2021.12 and it’s all good. So yeah, it seems that a subscription sort of updates your old perpetual licenses even if you let it lapse. It even says Pro Tools Studio under iLok.
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Post by bigbone on Jun 27, 2022 9:41:40 GMT -6
I had to chose between the UAD Apollo and the AVID Carbon Hybride ,as i got both for a test. Sound wise Apollo isn't in the same league.And Carbon came with a full ProTools version.
End of the search for me.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 27, 2022 12:42:26 GMT -6
I believe all Avid hardware still comes with a perpetual license like it always has.
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Post by bigbone on Jun 27, 2022 19:55:48 GMT -6
yes it does.!!!
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