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Post by enlav on Apr 27, 2022 11:57:45 GMT -6
It's never the clients. It's always other engineers.. And yes, it always seems to come from a place of elitism. All DAWs do pretty much the same thing but I only ever get talked down to by PT users. I don't know if I've just been unlucky, but I had a string of engineer+musician combo clients for a bit; some guys that either did online course work or went to some shorter term programs out of state. Not talking ill of their programs or courses, mind you, but the biggest annoyances I would get would be from people that happened to be fresh-out-of-<PROGRAM/COURSE NAME> that would be chalk full of attitude. Yeah, sure, we're only using 192's and 96's on Pro Tools 7(or 8?) here; I don't care if your uni has AVID HD|IO's on Pro Tools 10/11/12. We're paying $150 for a 10-hour block, I'd be happy with basically anything and Garageband/Audacity.
Again, no ill will towards those programs are their general graduates; the experiences I've had with a few I'm sure are greatly outweighed by the normal and well-behaved majority.
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Post by tasteliketape on Apr 27, 2022 14:58:58 GMT -6
I’ve been running it all day on my Mac studio . No problems so far maybe the first PT update I’ve done that’s been bug free (so far) Pt studio now has Heat added . Designed in conjunction with Dave Hill. wish this would come with perpetual. Oh well. ah. Sure. But still run good doesn't it? I have PT perpetual license and when I downloaded the update I now have Heat . Maybe it goes away if I don’t keep the support plan? I don’t know To answer the other , it is working now but what about farther down the road when Rosetta is dropped and other updates come . Talk is Rosetta will eventually be dropped . Will it still work? seriously asking Because I don’t really want to keep the PT support plan . |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 17:03:45 GMT -6
It's never the clients. It's always other engineers.. And yes, it always seems to come from a place of elitism. All DAWs do pretty much the same thing but I only ever get talked down to by PT users. I don't know if I've just been unlucky, but I had a string of engineer+musician combo clients for a bit; some guys that either did online course work or went to some shorter term programs out of state. Not talking ill of their programs or courses, mind you, but the biggest annoyances I would get would be from people that happened to be fresh-out-of-<PROGRAM/COURSE NAME> that would be chalk full of attitude. Yeah, sure, we're only using 192's and 96's on Pro Tools 7(or 8?) here; I don't care if your uni has AVID HD|IO's on Pro Tools 10/11/12. We're paying $150 for a 10-hour block, I'd be happy with basically anything and Garageband/Audacity.
Again, no ill will towards those programs are their general graduates; the experiences I've had with a few I'm sure are greatly outweighed by the normal and well-behaved majority.
Dinosaur tools for a dead industry. |
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Post by enlav on Apr 27, 2022 17:08:13 GMT -6
Don't worry, they're trust fund kids that also happen to be buying up all those 34k u47's. You don't need profit when you're set for life.
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Post by drbill on Apr 27, 2022 17:47:46 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead.
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Post by drumsound on Apr 27, 2022 18:13:07 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. Which am I? Which are YOU? |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 27, 2022 18:21:14 GMT -6
There's nothing wrong with anyone's off brand DAW. But no professional AE from a major market is going to walk in and be like, oh sweet, you use Tracktion? Let me book a couple weeks. And anyone who is DAW shaming is doing it wrong, the go to move is to crap on other peoples tracks.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 20:06:52 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. The thing is AVID had the cheapskates due to Cubase being expensive and selling the MBox hardware 15 years ago. Then Reaper showed up and was 60 bucks. Then Apple made Logic 200 bucks. Sonar had financial issues. Cockos and Apple pretty much stole the entire low end market for recording.
AVID refused to compete with them and still cripples their program to tie it to hardware. 1000 a year for Pro Tools is a whole record of work give or take. If you're running a commercial space, that's just another write off but it's still something. Perpetual licenses out the window. They're losing customers. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 20:18:51 GMT -6
Don't worry, they're trust fund kids that also happen to be buying up all those 34k u47's. You don't need profit when you're set for life. Yep. Entire racks of totally fucked 1176s they bought up. Seen guys try to flex it. 5k+ for a Neve strip. 14k for an LA2A. Then they crap all over it with Izotope RX and Waves plugs. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 27, 2022 20:26:49 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. The thing is AVID had the cheapskates due to Cubase being expensive and selling the MBox hardware 15 years ago. Then Reaper showed up and was 60 bucks. Then Apple made Logic 200 bucks. Sonar had financial issues. Cockos and Apple pretty much stole the entire low end market for recording.
AVID refused to compete with them and still cripples their program to tie it to hardware. 1000 a year for Pro Tools is a whole record of work give or take. If you're running a commercial space, that's just another write off but it's still something. Perpetual licenses out the window. They're losing customers. That all may be true, but tying the hardware to the program makes for the absolute best recording experience regarding latency and ease of use with HDX. Not saying it’s the only way to make records, but it really makes things easy. And comes at a cost unfortunately. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 27, 2022 20:37:02 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. The thing is AVID had the cheapskates due to Cubase being expensive and selling the MBox hardware 15 years ago. Then Reaper showed up and was 60 bucks. Then Apple made Logic 200 bucks. Sonar had financial issues. Cockos and Apple pretty much stole the entire low end market for recording.
AVID refused to compete with them and still cripples their program to tie it to hardware. 1000 a year for Pro Tools is a whole record of work give or take. If you're running a commercial space, that's just another write off but it's still something. Perpetual licenses out the window. They're losing customers.No doubt they are loosing customers. I've been hearing that for 15 years now. And I'd guess that at their corporate board meetings they are saying "good riddance". According to experts and the overall industry, AVID has been circling the drain in a death spiral since 2000. Maybe before. And yet.... They are still kicking it. Why? Because they are providing their KNOWN user base with what they need and by not catering to the market that most of the other DAW manufacturers are catering too. I call that smart business. It's not a business model that fits everyone. I don't pay $1000 a year. Every 2-3-4 years I buy a new perpetual license or upgrade my existing one when I need it - usually at a killer "deal". There are always deals. I have a PT/Mac guy that keeps me up and running at the least cost imaginable. It's actually quite reasonable. The last perpetual HDX ultimate license I bought at the end of last year I haven't even activated yet. I think it cost me $350. Or maybe it was $400. I forget. Once I activate it, I will have unpaid upgrades for one year, and that license will easily last me another 3+ years - hopefully. That's less than $150 a year with minimal hassles. WAAAAAaaaaay worth it to me. I hate upgrading my OS, and main DAW all the time. I upgrade when I need it, not at Apples yearly whim. Personally, I really don't care what everyone else uses. If it works for you, that's awesome. I'm all for it!!! <thumbsup> I use HDX and do a ton of hybrid mixing where I need my DAW and delay compensation to be instant, brain dead simple, sample accurate, and rock solid. HDX does that, and IMO, after several decades of building, equipping and running studio's - Pro Tools running on Digi/AVID DSP (442, 888, Mix, HD, HDX, geez, has it been that long....) has been one of the simplest, most reliable, least expensive, hard working and long running pieces I've ever had. A bargain IMO. Of course AVID is a hardware company as well as software. Those who buy the software only, are often misled - trying to get the benefit without the real cost. That may work for them - it doesn't for me. Most of the time when I see the "PT Superiority" guys pop out of the woodwork (and I'm sure some have thought that of me as I'm an avid - sorry, haha - bad pun - chessparov Chris will be proud of me fan), it's after Cubase, Logic, Reaper, etc. users start calling "pro FOOLS" and the like or complaining about how AVID is trying to r*** end users. I say use what you're comfortable with and what makes you the most creative and productive. I used to run a combo of Digital Performer and Pro Tools - bouncing back and forth, but realized it was burning up my precious time - and I switched to PT 100% when their midi came up to snuff. For me, I keep up on the forums regularly, and I rarely hear PTHDX owners howling about issues like guys running native systems on all the other platforms. That's my perspective, and it works for me, and I suspect I'll be a pro fool till I hang it up. I've been on since PT2 came out in the early 90's. Why change now? Oh, and yeah drumsound - we're both billionaires, right?  . Let's go warm up our 17 vintage U47's and record some shakers!!! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 27, 2022 20:46:29 GMT -6
I don't know if I've just been unlucky, but I had a string of engineer+musician combo clients for a bit; some guys that either did online course work or went to some shorter term programs out of state. Not talking ill of their programs or courses, mind you, but the biggest annoyances I would get would be from people that happened to be fresh-out-of-<PROGRAM/COURSE NAME> that would be chalk full of attitude. Yeah, sure, we're only using 192's and 96's on Pro Tools 7(or 8?) here; I don't care if your uni has AVID HD|IO's on Pro Tools 10/11/12. We're paying $150 for a 10-hour block, I'd be happy with basically anything and Garageband/Audacity.
Again, no ill will towards those programs are their general graduates; the experiences I've had with a few I'm sure are greatly outweighed by the normal and well-behaved majority.
Dinosaur tools for a dead industry. Ouch |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 21:30:38 GMT -6
The thing is AVID had the cheapskates due to Cubase being expensive and selling the MBox hardware 15 years ago. Then Reaper showed up and was 60 bucks. Then Apple made Logic 200 bucks. Sonar had financial issues. Cockos and Apple pretty much stole the entire low end market for recording.
AVID refused to compete with them and still cripples their program to tie it to hardware. 1000 a year for Pro Tools is a whole record of work give or take. If you're running a commercial space, that's just another write off but it's still something. Perpetual licenses out the window. They're losing customers. That all may be true, but tying the hardware to the program makes for the absolute best recording experience regarding latency and ease of use with HDX. Not saying it’s the only way to make records, but it really makes things easy. And comes at a cost unfortunately. An HDX rig is a beast. Avid just decided not to scale it down and offers a crippled for lack of a better word Native version in it's place. No ping. Light years behind Reaper and Logic in efficiency. What they should've done is scale down HDX. Less DSP in a cheaper box or card like UAD and run it partly native. The Pro Tools Carbon is a first but the RTL is bleh and it's 4k. They should've went like RME where the Babyface still gives you the real RME performance for two channels and still 1k. But the Carbon is more than a UFX+ that can run MADI for ridiculous channel counts and still has low RTL |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 21:38:31 GMT -6
The thing is AVID had the cheapskates due to Cubase being expensive and selling the MBox hardware 15 years ago. Then Reaper showed up and was 60 bucks. Then Apple made Logic 200 bucks. Sonar had financial issues. Cockos and Apple pretty much stole the entire low end market for recording.
AVID refused to compete with them and still cripples their program to tie it to hardware. 1000 a year for Pro Tools is a whole record of work give or take. If you're running a commercial space, that's just another write off but it's still something. Perpetual licenses out the window. They're losing customers.No doubt they are loosing customers. I've been hearing that for 15 years now. And I'd guess that at their corporate board meetings they are saying "good riddance". According to experts and the overall industry, AVID has been circling the drain in a death spiral since 2000. Maybe before. And yet.... They are still kicking it. Why? Because they are providing their KNOWN user base with what they need and by not catering to the market that most of the other DAW manufacturers are catering too. I call that smart business. It's not a business model that fits everyone. I don't pay $1000 a year. Every 2-3-4 years I buy a new perpetual license or upgrade my existing one when I need it - usually at a killer "deal". There are always deals. I have a PT/Mac guy that keeps me up and running at the least cost imaginable. It's actually quite reasonable. The last perpetual HDX ultimate license I bought at the end of last year I haven't even activated yet. I think it cost me $350. Or maybe it was $400. I forget. Once I activate it, I will have unpaid upgrades for one year, and that license will easily last me another 3+ years - hopefully. That's less than $150 a year with minimal hassles. WAAAAAaaaaay worth it to me. I hate upgrading my OS, and main DAW all the time. I upgrade when I need it, not at Apples yearly whim. Personally, I really don't care what everyone else uses. If it works for you, that's awesome. I'm all for it!!! <thumbsup> I use HDX and do a ton of hybrid mixing where I need my DAW and delay compensation to be instant, brain dead simple, sample accurate, and rock solid. HDX does that, and IMO, after several decades of building, equipping and running studio's - Pro Tools running on Digi/AVID DSP (442, 888, Mix, HD, HDX, geez, has it been that long....) has been one of the simplest, most reliable, least expensive, hard working and long running pieces I've ever had. A bargain IMO. Of course AVID is a hardware company as well as software. Those who buy the software only, are often misled - trying to get the benefit without the real cost. That may work for them - it doesn't for me. Most of the time when I see the "PT Superiority" guys pop out of the woodwork (and I'm sure some have thought that of me as I'm an avid - sorry, haha - bad pun - chessparov Chris will be proud of me fan), it's after Cubase, Logic, Reaper, etc. users start calling "pro FOOLS" and the like or complaining about how AVID is trying to r*** end users. I say use what you're comfortable with and what makes you the most creative and productive. I used to run a combo of Digital Performer and Pro Tools - bouncing back and forth, but realized it was burning up my precious time - and I switched to PT 100% when their midi came up to snuff. For me, I keep up on the forums regularly, and I rarely hear PTHDX owners howling about issues like guys running native systems on all the other platforms. That's my perspective, and it works for me, and I suspect I'll be a pro fool till I hang it up. I've been on since PT2 came out in the early 90's. Why change now? Oh, and yeah drumsound - we're both billionaires, right? . Let's go warm up our 17 vintage U47's and record some shakers!!! Avid finally went subscription only. Their board probably loves that. More income. You have 150 a year for now. That's great and pretty sick and all but now they're trying to get new users to pay 100 a month. The Pro Fools crowd is real though. A lot of these guys are Reaper or Logic only fanboys. Or even Bitwig. They can't see how HDX or other DAWs would suit workflows better. I like Logic a lot now because it's standardized, Apple finally fixed most of the delay compensation bugs, and it's pretty easy to use. I prefer editing and mixing in Reaper though but god there are so many bugs still that can come up. I couldn't copy my automation the other day. Why? Who knows. Sometimes Reaper fails to copy and paste when heavy sessions are open. All of these DAWs have major bugs that don't get fixed. It's weird. You just learn where they can falter and use them. We just need U-he or UAD to make their own plugin format or DAW... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 21:42:19 GMT -6
Dinosaur tools for a dead industry. Ouch Too fighting to not post. I was thinking more how these programs teach these kids to use large format studio consoles, ancient outboard, Izotope, and Waves SSL and such and those are just not even a factor at all in most music today. API and SSL both seem to mostly sell big consoles to educational institutions. Dinosaur tools and Pro Tools just happened to line up 😎 |
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Post by enlav on Apr 27, 2022 22:09:30 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. Oh, and yeah drumsound - we're both billionaires, right? . Let's go warm up our 17 vintage U47's and record some shakers!!! It feels I've struck the wrong note here - I'm being very specific about a few encounters I've had that I wanted to state are not indicative or representative of a whole group of people. Unless you've made it a point to belittle modest studios for not having the cutting edge platforms -- which I absolutely don't believe you or anyone on this forum to be of the kind to do so -- it's definitely not directed towards you. The mention of trust fund kids are also not specific to Pro Tools users.
I also use pro tools (though only ever LE and non-HD/HD|Native/HDX for my personal rigs, but of course, most rooms are generally had/have some iteration of HD), which I hoped I had established. Outside of using Cubase and when I first started dabbling with PC recording, I've never really used another DAW regularly, unless out of necessity; like when Pro Tools LE wasn't compatible with 3rd party interfaces - need to record drums offsite? Hello Audacity/Garageband.
I do apologize, my intention was never to insinuate anything towards you, or us (me for that matter), or anyone just by the nature of what DAW they use, or if they can afford expensive vintage gear in this day/era. I hope we can move past this - and I will be more civil and careful with my words going forward.
...
Returning to the topic at hand. I don't actually think Avid has anything to worry about from a business stand point. And Pro Tools Artist, at least from first glance, looks to be more capable than the free DAW they were giving out during and after cycling out Pro Tools LE/M-Powered (Pro Tools First?). Thirty-two tracks is probably going to be more than enough for most folks, and at 9.99 a month (or 99.99 a year), that's probably getting closer (or right on) for what people would spend. Granted, I'm assuming there's no other weird limitations like their free version had in the past (X number of instrument tracks, X number of Aux, etc). If Avid is concerned about dwindling users, I'm guessing the hope is Pro Tools Artist would rebuild another generation of engineers and artists that are producing/recording themselves.
I might just be making a fool of myself though, because I don't know if Artist is actually any better their most recent lite versions of Pro Tools.
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Post by drbill on Apr 27, 2022 22:25:02 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. Oh, and yeah drumsound - we're both billionaires, right? . Let's go warm up our 17 vintage U47's and record some shakers!!! It feels I've struck the wrong note here - I'm being very specific about a few encounters I've had that I wanted to state are not indicative or representative of a whole group of people. Unless you've made it a point to belittle modest studios for not having the cutting edge platforms -- which I absolutely don't believe you or anyone on this forum to be of the kind to do so -- it's definitely not directed towards you. snip...
I do apologize, my intention was never to insinuate anything towards you,. Nah, no problem at all my friend. No worries here. I've heard it all a thousand times, and everyone is going to choose what works best for them. What works best for you or Dan or me is obviously going to be different. We all do different things, and have different needs. It's all good. But with the Pro Fools name calling comes out expect the PT elitism to follow. It's only human nature. It's like RGO morphs into GS. And we all know how that's going to turn out. LOL Cheers, bp |
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Post by reddirt on Apr 27, 2022 23:17:39 GMT -6
Yeah, on the surface Artist seems perfect for many of us doing the sort of productions that for example "Wiz" or JK are doing. (32 audio tracks, 16 at once)
if anybody has any info to the contrary and can point out it's real world limitations please let us know cause I'm tempted when I upgrade computers - it's certainly affordable @ $99 USD / annum
Cheers, Ross
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Post by drumsound on Apr 27, 2022 23:24:24 GMT -6
Oh, and yeah drumsound - we're both billionaires, right? . Let's go warm up our 17 vintage U47's and record some shakers!!! I'll fire up the jet and be right over for our Atmos shaker duet session. |
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Post by subspace on Apr 28, 2022 5:16:42 GMT -6
No, the subscription with perpetual parachute it ships with was standard Pro Tools, now Studio. Ok, wow. I missed this. But it does provide seamless 0 latency tracking ala HD? Sub 1ms via built in HDX DSP, yes, the hybrid mix engine was developed for Carbon to allow any track to flip between native DSP and HDX during tracking. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 6:54:25 GMT -6
The only issue I have IME of Protools is Native is a pre-cursor to HDX.. ADC working in part was a decent example, I know it's a bit more closely aligned currently but a lot of DAW's have had that functionality built in for a long time. Although besides the price which compared to a desk / outboard is nothing really I've never had a single complaint about HDX.
You can still buy perpetual licenses and it's all good if that's the path one chooses to follow. It's also nice to see that UA are offering an alternative with Apollo / Luna, competitive markets only stand to benefit.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Apr 28, 2022 8:09:41 GMT -6
Stupid question-I've toyed with the idea of going HDX for a while. Looking at the specs of an HDX card, it says it has 64 I/O. How would you get 64 in and outs hooked to one card?
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 28, 2022 9:30:47 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. Which am I? Which are YOU? Dead. Im definitely the dead one. |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 28, 2022 9:31:09 GMT -6
Ok, wow. I missed this. But it does provide seamless 0 latency tracking ala HD? Sub 1ms via built in HDX DSP, yes, the hybrid mix engine was developed for Carbon to allow any track to flip between native DSP and HDX during tracking. Thanks… I may have to get one some day, that’d be pretty sweet for my home rig. |
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Post by ericn on Apr 28, 2022 9:31:48 GMT -6
Yup. All Pro Tools users are billionaires or are dead. Which am I? Which are YOU? Well after running both of your credit Scores Tony, we all be dead ! |
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