kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 26, 2021 3:09:32 GMT -6
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Post by sirthought on Oct 26, 2021 16:20:42 GMT -6
I've been reading their website about all this thing is designed to handle.
I'm surprised more people aren't using this brand. The design is incredible, considering all that it can do.
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Post by enlav on Oct 26, 2021 18:39:10 GMT -6
I've been reading their website about all this thing is designed to handle. I'm surprised more people aren't using this brand. The design is incredible, considering all that it can do. If I were on Mac, I'd already have my order in... or a pro tools carbon. |
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Post by aremos on Oct 26, 2021 19:10:16 GMT -6
Could of sworn III was just out less than a year ago?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 26, 2021 19:35:50 GMT -6
Halo equals decent performance, that is as stable as any thing out there.
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Post by sirthought on Oct 26, 2021 19:53:22 GMT -6
I've been reading their website about all this thing is designed to handle. I'm surprised more people aren't using this brand. The design is incredible, considering all that it can do. If I were on Mac, I'd already have my order in... or a pro tools carbon. They claim this will work with Windows 10+ |
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Post by enlav on Oct 26, 2021 20:29:06 GMT -6
If I were on Mac, I'd already have my order in... or a pro tools carbon. They claim this will work with Windows 10+ Oh wow, I didn't realize that. Though I assume it's only for USB? I'll have to look into whether the USB drivers actually offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. |
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Post by sirthought on Oct 26, 2021 21:28:11 GMT -6
They claim this will work with Windows 10+ Oh wow, I didn't realize that. Though I assume it's only for USB? I'll have to look into whether the USB drivers actually offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. You can operate through a CAT5 cable. Read the page! |
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 26, 2021 21:32:09 GMT -6
They claim this will work with Windows 10+ Oh wow, I didn't realize that. Though I assume it's only for USB? I'll have to look into whether the USB drivers actually offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I have loved all of my several MH interfaces over the years, but just to save you some time, they do NOT offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I hope that may change someday, but it is simply not the company’s focus at this time. |
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Post by enlav on Oct 26, 2021 21:45:20 GMT -6
Oh wow, I didn't realize that. Though I assume it's only for USB? I'll have to look into whether the USB drivers actually offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I have loved all of my several MH interfaces over the years, but just to save you some time, they do NOT offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I hope that may change someday, but it is simply not the company’s focus at this time. Thanks for the quick tip. I don't blame them either. I'm guessing MH Link performance is considerably better, and for most people that have the means, they can use AES or any number of other solutions to allow for lower latency performance. |
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Post by plinker on Oct 26, 2021 23:08:28 GMT -6
Oh wow, I didn't realize that. Though I assume it's only for USB? I'll have to look into whether the USB drivers actually offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I have loved all of my several MH interfaces over the years, but just to save you some time, they do NOT offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I hope that may change someday, but it is simply not the company’s focus at this time. Mark, they claim to have reduced the RTL with this Mk4 version. I haven't looked into it -- just received the promotional email. RTL isn't a concern for me, but I like that they have upgraded the analog and digital. I should probably read up on it first though ;-}
I'm tempted. I might go for the presale price, but I'd have to sell one of my older (non MK4) units to do it.
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Post by plinker on Oct 26, 2021 23:09:39 GMT -6
I have loved all of my several MH interfaces over the years, but just to save you some time, they do NOT offer competitive RTL values vs. RME. I hope that may change someday, but it is simply not the company’s focus at this time. Thanks for the quick tip. I don't blame them either. I'm guessing MH Link performance is considerably better, and for most people that have the means, they can use AES or any number of other solutions to allow for lower latency performance. I use MHLink just for the convenience and stability. However, on the MH list-serv they claim that the USB connection is faster. I'm not sure why. |
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Post by plinker on Oct 26, 2021 23:13:08 GMT -6
OK -- the new RTL is 18 samples for the LIO/ULN8 MK4 vs 116 samples for the last generation LIO/ULN8 3D. mhsecure.com/products/mkIV/ULN8mkIV.html#differencesHow does that compare to RME?
edit: I just found a post where RME claims the UFX2 has an RTL of 32 samples.
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Post by reddirt on Oct 26, 2021 23:17:18 GMT -6
I have a ULN-2 which has been zero trouble for 11 years; just checked out their website and these new ones have taken their game to a whole new level. Seriously worth having a big look at - without having used them, they would appear to be in the "very best" ballpark where personal preference is your dictate.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by keymod on Oct 27, 2021 3:09:46 GMT -6
My Engineer uses MH for his own gigs and raves about them. I would switch out from my MOTU rig if I could afford it. We do, however, get very good results with the MOTU rig.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 3:17:34 GMT -6
OK -- the new RTL is 18 samples for the LIO/ULN8 MK4 vs 116 samples for the last generation LIO/ULN8 3D. mhsecure.com/products/mkIV/ULN8mkIV.html#differencesHow does that compare to RME?
edit: I just found a post where RME claims the UFX2 has an RTL of 32 samples.
That compares well to just about anything, even directly attached PCI-E interfaces so it's impressive especially for a USB interface. I've heard a lot claims about latency but in terms of stability at low sample rates I've yet to come across anything better (outside of HDX) than the old RME HDSP PCI-E cards, at 32 samples / 44.1Khz they had an RTL of 0.7ms. Of course you'd never run a mix session / overdubs at 32 samples but with the RME you could leave it at 64 / 128 samples (1.5ms / 3ms) RTL without it dropping audio or having a hissy fit on some sizeable sessions. Anyway, I used to have a ULN-8 (a long time ago) paired with a 2011 Mac Mini and then for reasons I moved over to Windows and sold it. Great conversion, better pre-amps than most outboard, all the same zero latency gubbins you get on most interfaces nowadays etc. Although, looking at some of the new reviews / their website it seems that the Mk4 is still in beta. You might want to hold off for a while? |
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2021 4:11:04 GMT -6
I have 2 ULN8's for the past 11+ years, decided to add a 3rd box (finally) then upgrade the 2 existing boxes when available. According to the hardware description on the Metric Halo site: Ultra-low converter latency Converter latency reduced by 85% compared with previous generation Round-trip through Converters + Mixer + DSP + Monitor: ≈ 0.9ms @ 44.1k ≈ 0.2ms @ 192k Found here: mhsecure.com/products/mkIV/ULN8mkIV.html#anoc |
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Post by plinker on Oct 27, 2021 8:20:11 GMT -6
On the MH list-serv the company stated that they have designed upgrades for the analog sections of the older units, but the parts are not available for them to build them -- shipping delays and such.
It's always cool that MH keeps driving the "future-proof".
I'm not sure what benefit that brings since I can't really imagine the preamps sounding better, but maybe there's something else the analog sections are doing.
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Post by enlav on Oct 27, 2021 8:55:32 GMT -6
At the rate things are going though with RME's supply shortage (obviously not their fault, just the nature of technology right now), it's starting to get more and more attractive using RME sheerly for the USB Handshake through something like a MADIface or Digiface and getting conversion through someone like Metric Halo.
I'm actually really surprised that the performance is slower on MH Link. I assumed the network connection would be just be superior in all ways. I guess I shouldn't be making assumptions!
Regardless, it's good and interesting to see a new series of hardware/software from Metric Halo. Always good to keep the market competitive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 9:21:23 GMT -6
At the rate things are going though with RME's supply shortage (obviously not their fault, just the nature of technology right now), it's starting to get more and more attractive using RME sheerly for the USB Handshake through something like a MADIface or Digiface and getting conversion through someone like Metric Halo. I'm actually really surprised that the performance is slower on MH Link. I assumed the network connection would be just be superior in all ways. I guess I shouldn't be making assumptions! Regardless, it's good and interesting to see a new series of hardware/software from Metric Halo. Always good to keep the market competitive. RME is switching their converter chips over. They’ve always relied upon AKM chips and the factory fire is hitting many products hard. |
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2021 9:25:42 GMT -6
I'm actually really surprised that the performance is slower on MH Link. I assumed the network connection would be just be superior in all ways. I guess I shouldn't be making assumptions! Understood. What I had posted earlier from the MH site is they state the latency is conversion + console + dsp + monitor (not sure about the RME as I don't have any experience with it ) so it will be interesting to see what it will be as I monitor through my RND 5060 Centerpiece. I haven't had any issues with the RTL on my 3d boxes anyhow so for me this is a huge improvement. Wonder if I'll notice  |
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Post by enlav on Oct 27, 2021 10:03:16 GMT -6
RME is switching their converter chips over. They’ve always relied upon AKM chips and the factory fire is hitting many products hard. So I had known they had... uh... ESS chips in their RME ADI-2 PRO, which seem to be a fairly lateral move (neither upgrade nor downgrade?), but I wasn't aware they were switching the rest of their converters over. Makes sense, since most of the MI dealers have been telling me we're looking at 2022 for the UFX II/+.
Tempted to just say screw it and buy an Aurora(n) and just deal with the RTL issues for now.
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Post by enlav on Oct 27, 2021 10:05:41 GMT -6
I'm actually really surprised that the performance is slower on MH Link. I assumed the network connection would be just be superior in all ways. I guess I shouldn't be making assumptions! Understood. What I had posted earlier from the MH site is they state the latency is conversion + console + dsp + monitor (not sure about the RME as I don't have any experience with it ) so it will be interesting to see what it will be as I monitor through my RND 5060 Centerpiece. I haven't had any issues with the RTL on my 3d boxes anyhow so for me this is a huge improvement. Wonder if I'll notice Sorry 79sg! I must have missed your message when going through the thread.
I think the latency they're reporting is strictly keeping the DAW out of the picture... is that right?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 10:14:23 GMT -6
Keep in mind that RME has the best USB drivers around but lowers latency at the expense of sound quality using minimum phase anti-aliasing filters in their non ADI-2 Pro/DAC products.
This greatly affects the sound unless the process is scrambling the phase to begin with like tape plugs, reverb sends, Presswerk in DPR mode or with warm saturation on, etc.
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2021 10:15:37 GMT -6
Not 100% sure. I could guess and say it appears it includes the DAW since they mention monitoring but check in with them and report back.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 27, 2021 10:17:50 GMT -6
Network audio is slower than some other interface methods right now, I believe. It's a reason I didn't switch to REDNET products. It's probably faster than some crap pro-sumer USB ones, though. Seems to be optimized more for the live music world. Where channel count and distance can get into unfathomable lengths and sizes.
Jonny Greenwood is a famous Metric Halo user. You can see them on stage with Radiohead, and his Apple laptop computers. Stable enough for a gig that large, that's impressive to me. Runs all his polyphonic keyboard parts (NI Kontakt,) and his guitar FX with MAX code that he has written for certain effects programs like the stuttering thing, and, presumably, the harmonized delays that he uses now.
Haven't kept up with his rig lately, in the Smile band, I wonder what the computer is connected to now.
Makes me want to be a smarty pants and try to write effects that are integral to the song and not found in stomp boxes. Not very punk rock, but very very cool.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 27, 2021 10:18:56 GMT -6
Understood. What I had posted earlier from the MH site is they state the latency is conversion + console + dsp + monitor (not sure about the RME as I don't have any experience with it ) so it will be interesting to see what it will be as I monitor through my RND 5060 Centerpiece. I haven't had any issues with the RTL on my 3d boxes anyhow so for me this is a huge improvement. Wonder if I'll notice Sorry 79sg! I must have missed your message when going through the thread.
I think the latency they're reporting is strictly keeping the DAW out of the picture... is that right?
There is some latency inherent to the hardware process itself. Software / DAW / driver latency will be separate (added on) to those numbers. I believe. |
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Post by enlav on Oct 27, 2021 10:33:35 GMT -6
Keep in mind that RME has the best USB drivers around but lowers latency at the expense of sound quality using minimum phase anti-aliasing filters in their non ADI-2 Pro/DAC products. This greatly affects the sound unless the process is scrambling the phase to begin with like tape plugs, reverb sends, Presswerk in DPR mode or with warm saturation on, etc. Does this also mean the ADI-2 Pro product line has lower I mean, higher latency figures compared to their other USB products as a result? |
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2021 10:42:05 GMT -6
I think the latency they're reporting is strictly keeping the DAW out of the picture... is that right?
You are correct. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 27, 2021 13:45:17 GMT -6
Thanks for the quick tip. I don't blame them either. I'm guessing MH Link performance is considerably better, and for most people that have the means, they can use AES or any number of other solutions to allow for lower latency performance. I use MHLink just for the convenience and stability. However, on the MH list-serv they claim that the USB connection is faster. I'm not sure why. The USB connection is faster because MH haven't yet been able to get MHLink to bypass the Apple network interface. They may figure out a way to do that natively, but it also might require a dedicated MH PCI card or Thunderbolt box with an ethernet port on it. Basically, for them to get the RTL latency to an acceptably low level to monitor through your DAW plugins, they're going to have to do something different than they're currently doing. I wish to goodness they would've just gone with a Thunderbolt connector on the ULN-8 3D (or MkIV) to get around these limitations, but the team seems focused on other issues. It drives me slightly crazy, but I love so many other things about the boxes that I just keep on using them. I love their sound and stability. |
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