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Post by mrholmes on Nov 22, 2021 19:44:03 GMT -6
Today you can have everything ITB. The crap SSL sound, that NEVE or API thing.
It's just a matter of getting to know the plug ins better and better. I'm sorry but this is not true. You an have an APPROXIMATION of everything ITB. And really, not even that. Not "everything". There are a lot of analog pieces I love that are not modeled as plugins. If you want to mix ITB - Go for it!! Don't call it an equal to analog. It's not. Just as analog is not an equal to digital. Use both for what they are best at and be happy. To prove your way is best when others disagree is not helpful. Use BOTH and get further faster. This thread is tedious..... I'm probably in a crappy mood, as I've got Covid and can spare no empathy right now. LOL Be safe all.... I am totally happy with your opinion, but my experience is a different one. I don’t miss any of my old HW gear… The new Kelvin Saturator makes the impression of an swiss army knife and let’s me choose the artifacts which I may miss … by some plugs. I can combine diffrent stages in parallel or series or ms. It also simulates subtle side harmonics. Sounds absolutely lovely on some subs or on the mix bus. There is no more desire to strap my 1073 across the mix bus. But hey that’s just me seeing myself using Kelvin again and again and again.... Usually that’s a good sign for any audio gear....
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Post by drbill on Nov 22, 2021 19:50:00 GMT -6
"I'm sorry but this is not true. You an have an APPROXIMATION of everything ITB." Couldn't have said it better, myself. Yup. But actually Paul (right?) I'm sure you could have said it much more eloquently. The very definition of a plugin emulation is that it's an emulation. Seems to be lost of many if not most these days. I even hear people say stuff like : "do you have an LA2a at your studio?" only to be answered with "of course! I've got several - the waves cla, the NI and T-RackS". I'm still waiting to find a plugin emulation that I like better than an original.... Forget better. How about almost as good.... ?? When I want a hardware sound, I still use hardware. If I want something unique and off the wall that's in plugin form, or something I don't have available - I use that. I am not trying to fool myself or anyone else. The only way to know if LFAC OTB, ITB or Hybrid works for you is to have all 3 fully at your disposal and actually work with them on the same material at the same time and decide for yourself what is "best" and why it is "best". I did that. Chose hybrid cause I'm not a gazillionaire, I don't have a unlimited huge studio, and I still need real analog in my life. Plugins have been great addition to the party. Now...if only developers could only leave it at that. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 0:34:14 GMT -6
Like a moth to a flame with this thread.. Anyway, there's a fair bit of difference between taking in variables / understanding both sides of a coin and what I actually do. A lot of successful ITB tracks have been made by very well known engineers but it doesn't matter because simply put I can't do what they do. My workflow over the years has actually heavily regressed back to classic technique, simply because I find it simple and efficient. I print tracks, not as in from a DAW to outboard I mean I record with HW EQ / Compression / Limiting / saturation / effects, I split the vocal mono / effects tracks so I can blend them on a buss but. Yeah once recorded it's already 95% there, I leave a bit of wiggle room for a few plugs but they hardly do anything.. I'm sure it seems a bit crazy to approach it this way in 2021 but as a home recorder it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot on your HW then set / forget. Because I can only track one thing at a time it doesn't require tons of outboard either.. Meh, works for me .. P.S Dr. Bill hope you feel better soon..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 9:38:23 GMT -6
"I'm sorry but this is not true. You an have an APPROXIMATION of everything ITB." Couldn't have said it better, myself. Yup. But actually Paul (right?) I'm sure you could have said it much more eloquently. The very definition of a plugin emulation is that it's an emulation. Seems to be lost of many if not most these days. I even hear people say stuff like : "do you have an LA2a at your studio?" only to be answered with "of course! I've got several - the waves cla, the NI and T-RackS". I'm still waiting to find a plugin emulation that I like better than an original.... Forget better. How about almost as good.... ?? When I want a hardware sound, I still use hardware. If I want something unique and off the wall that's in plugin form, or something I don't have available - I use that. I am not trying to fool myself or anyone else. The only way to know if LFAC OTB, ITB or Hybrid works for you is to have all 3 fully at your disposal and actually work with them on the same material at the same time and decide for yourself what is "best" and why it is "best". I did that. Chose hybrid cause I'm not a gazillionaire, I don't have a unlimited huge studio, and I still need real analog in my life. Plugins have been great addition to the party. Now...if only developers could only leave it at that. LOL The real question is why would you use an 1176 plug followed by an LA2A plug when you have Kotelnikov other than not knowing how to use Kotelnikov with its GML 8900 meets Weiss DS-1 controls? The filters are better. I wasusing the Fuse LA-4 and Apogee LA3A and then realized those were pointless. The only issue is the auto-hold on the RMS/Hilbert portion can be a brutal leveler when you dig in, but that’s good! Ersatz of classic hardware, whether clones or plugins, wants to sell a story. “THE SOUND OF HITS!” “Led Zeppelin used this in 1972!” “Recorded on Neve, mixed on SSL!” Well the story behind two of the coolest digital compressors, Molot and Presswerk,, was tech guys 10 and 20 years ago with no real exposure to classic hardware and limited knowledge of DSP made free plug-in compressors that they thought sounded cooler than the commercial alternatives: Blockfish and VladG’s Molot. Then they became better programmers, became very good at writing filters (better than almost anyone making clone hardware), used and bought classic hardware, and wrote fairly well behaving to extremely well behaving updated versions that can be even more aggressive than classics with a lot of their idiosyncrasies built in. Presswerk can go beyond a Distressor with better tone. Molot can have a more aggressive attack than any 1176 and expand and clamp down more naturally than any DBX 160 and glue with more goop than any SSL bus. The input saturation is way better than what UA and Behringer are selling now. Now try telling that something that costs 10-20 bucks on sale is better than their 400-2000 dollar clone hardware or their noisy beat up thing they paid way too much money for? It’s a hard reality, especially when everyone who buys plugins owns it and you really have to read the manual to grasp it, and you need to play with it a ton to realize how to use it. Yet many of the top itb guys have no idea how to use the best plugs and get them to behave as well as analog! You can tell just by listening to their older analog mixes vs their modern ones. I know guys who bought the U-he plugs yet go to cheap studios with Behringer made hardware. Why? They don’t know how to use any of it! They’d be better off recording it clean without the junk and getting someone to mix it together itb who actually knows their tools. And coming from metal, on there are still tons of big label metal albums done with lots of hardware that sound worse than basement black metal on bandcamp done with a bunch of Shures and an “evaluated” copy of Reaper.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 9:49:41 GMT -6
I'm beginning to think Dan likes Tokyo Dawn plugins.. Could be wrong though.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 23, 2021 11:22:20 GMT -6
I was trying to compress a bass DI with Purple MC-77 (Plugin Alliance) the other day and the attack was just horrible sounding, I spent 20 minutes trying to dial it.
Then I just gave up and used Molot GE. Much better, dialed in quickly...easily.
I don't need to own a Large Format Analog Console to tell you that this sounds good.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 23, 2021 11:36:28 GMT -6
I was trying to compress a bass DI with Purple MC-77 (Plugin Alliance) the other day and the attack was just horrible sounding, I spent 20 minutes trying to dial it. Then I just gave up and used Molot GE. Much better, dialed in quickly...easily. I don't need to own a Large Format Analog Console to tell you that this sounds good.
Molot is the shniz. Don't know any other ITB comp like it.
Molot was a company that manufactured some historic weapons like the PPsh-41 in WWII.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 11:54:50 GMT -6
Can't deny that they're pretty good, might take some load off the old UA DSP as well. I couldn't get Limiter 6 as loud as Ozone 9 but it also seems to do less damage to the original mix at equivalent levels before its breaking point, at a certain level streaming services will clamp down on LUFS anyway so it's neither here nor there.
Speaking of width (mentioned here somewhere) the Chandler Curvebender (either UA or toob) can do some pretty special M/S editing, rather impressive. I'm a bit torn when it comes to mastering.. Wouldn't mind a summing mixer into an IGS tubecore then use something like Sonnox as primary limiter via UA's console on the way in but it's just another step in the chain... I should probably test out all the options I already have before going down that road.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 23, 2021 12:00:02 GMT -6
Can't deny that they're pretty good, might take some load off the old UA DSP as well. I couldn't get Limiter 6 as loud as Ozone 9 but it also seems to do less damage to the original mix at equivalent levels before its breaking point, at a certain level streaming services will clamp down on LUFS anyway so it's neither here nor there. Speaking of width (mentioned here somewhere) the Chandler Curvebender (either UA or toob) can do some pretty special M/S editing, rather impressive. I'm a bit torn when it comes to mastering.. Wouldn't mind a summing mixer into an IGS tubecore then use something like Sonnox as primary limiter via UA's console on the way in but it's just another step in the chain... I should probably test out all the options I already have before going down that road. Curve Bender is one of the great ITB EQ's. I'm sure the hardware is staggering, but the software is great! I saw Joe Chicarelli (why do I have to name drop, I don't know) using this one with Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor as his 1-2 mixbus chain, I thought that was smart. I already liked the Shadow Hills plugins (I have both versions.) Not every song needs a mix bus compressor, I don't think. But it's good to know what the good plugins are. They are not created equally. That thing people get from relaxing into a vibe, I am convinced it can happen with rack gear, or plugins, equally. When you sort of exhale, relax your shoulders, everything is just grooving and hitting hard. I get that from my ITB mixes all the time. Just like I did with my hybrid rigs. A great mix, is a great mix.
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