|
Post by Mister Chase on Oct 20, 2021 18:14:22 GMT -6
We are all adults, what does it matter what OS and platform people use ? For some reason it matters personally to some people. I'm not sure. Either one will work. Everyone's experience will be different. We also use these systems a bit differently from one another which alters the result. Both can be made to work, for sure. Pluses and minuses.
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Oct 20, 2021 18:37:51 GMT -6
To switch tack a little; I will be buying a new Mac sometime in the nearish future to replace My 2010 17" MBP so am researching.
My present takeaways are that the M1 mini with 16 gig ram is seriously capable unless you are a real power user. It is compromised a bit if you have to run Rosetta but ultimately when those software companies catch up then the mini's performance will get even better. At it's price it's great and especially if you already have the monitor / mouse/ keyboard etc. Most of us probably also need a Satetchi USB dock or Caldigit or similar as well. I've said it before - Wiz does what he does with the 8gig ram model; I reckon many of us would have similar needs to him.
As to the new models , they allow the Ram to go up to 32 gig on the Pro chip and 64 on the Max . They also have extra upgradeable CPU and GPU cores plus an extra TB port (3) with support for multiple monitors. They are of course, significantly more expensive. Additionally, the Max has double the Memory speed (400G/s) of the Pro.
My overarching thought at the moment is if you don't have a pressing need, resist temptation, sit tight and let the dust settle as it's early days; much will be revealed given time and none of us want the headf**k of trying to integrate eqpt/software before it's truly ready.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 20, 2021 21:11:17 GMT -6
Kind've sounds like you're slagging the intelligence of the board - which is kind've uncool. I use Mac because I dramatically prefer the operating system over Windows. Maybe you don't. I had Windows computers in the past and they're poorly constructed, break more often and constantly froze with the versions I had. Moved to Mac and that didn't happen. So - you can love Windows - that's fine...and you can spread the love, but to say people that have them have "bought into the marketing" is not cool. I think folks around here will be just fine with a little critique. It keeps minds open. After all, I have to endure throngs of Mac threads insinuating how PC is a lesser device and by extension I must be a lesser person for using them. Are you really serious?
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2021 21:24:33 GMT -6
I get it. If you look under the hood of any major corporation it can get ugly quick. I think the NFL is evil. But I still watch the Pats! It's not just the company, which is pretty shitty in it's own ways.. It's mostly the attitudes of those who've been convinced by the marketing of that company that they're somehow superior for spending 2x-4x more for something. And then they find every way to make sure you know about it too. Hence the multitude of Mac threads in this forum. And in the mac threads its tons of echo-chamber "macs are the best!" and in the "recording computer" threads asking about what computer to get, it's "You should get a mac".. I simply aim to balance out the fanboy-ism a bit. I mean, a search for "MAC" in the title leads to 4 pages of threads. A search for "PC" leads to ZERO threads. A search for "Computer" leads to 1 page of threads where 80% are about Macs. If there isn't a new Mac thread every week on here, I'll eat my shoe. I'll eat both shoes if two consecutive threads aren't covering the exact same things as if people just want to make sure each other know they're using macs and their macs are the newest and shiniest ones.. Announcement/speculation threads about macs.. I don't see any Dell or HP announcement threads despite there being new models every year just like Macs.. Why not? Are Dell and HP not trendy enough to warrant their own announcement threads? (yes, it's a rhetorical question because we all know the answer) And yeah, I know, I know, you're used to using a Mac. You're used to using Profools. You don't want to learn a new OS or a new DAW. Last time I went to a friend's place to work on his rig, it was Mac and Cubase. Took me about 20 minutes to figure out where all the buttons and menu items were and we were off to the races. A lot of the “fan boy” attitude comes from the fact that their systems work, keep in mind the majority don’t have any background in supporting a computer or software. Many have PC’s sitting on their desks at work and they seam problematic in comparison. Yes these PC’s are probably older, not optimized for their actual tasks and who ever supports them is supporting 30 different types of boxes. I’ll say it again the only true advantage of a Mac is from a support or set up perspective it’s so much easier because every mini I7-8700B. I can walk into any dealer and I get the same box. Good luck with that with just about any, Dell, HP, or Lenova model. They are constant moving targets. There is one build of the OS, it’s just easy to Support the suckers, consumers like simple, AE’s want to record not trouble shoot, dealers want to set it up ship it and never see it again. Apple like everybody tends to exaggerate the performance, but damn it when they work they work. I have owned and built on both platforms, I like the ease of Apple, it’s nice not worrying what’s under the cover. Of course I’m a Luddite, main Machine Radar V/24 running BE so what do I know.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Oct 20, 2021 22:29:33 GMT -6
I enjoyed how they opened with a scene where the guy was recording and mixing in his garage. Cheapest mic and mic stand, cheapest interface, sm57… $3000 barefoots.
|
|
|
Post by putinesqua on Oct 21, 2021 0:33:14 GMT -6
I enjoyed how they opened with a scene where the guy was recording and mixing in his garage. Cheapest mic and mic stand, cheapest interface, sm57… $3000 barefoots. god i did not enjoy any of that, even ironically...i had to stop watching it very quickly. it made me want to stop making music altogether, maybe just kill myself. that i am helping to pay for it does not help either
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2021 7:11:29 GMT -6
I enjoyed how they opened with a scene where the guy was recording and mixing in his garage. Cheapest mic and mic stand, cheapest interface, sm57… $3000 barefoots. Oh the world of set designers
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 21, 2021 7:58:12 GMT -6
A lot of the “fan boy” attitude comes from the fact that their systems work, keep in mind the majority don’t have any background in supporting a computer or software. Many have PC’s sitting on their desks at work and they seam problematic in comparison. Yes these PC’s are probably older, not optimized for their actual tasks and who ever supports them is supporting 30 different types of boxes. I’ll say it again the only true advantage of a Mac is from a support or set up perspective it’s so much easier because every mini I7-8700B. I can walk into any dealer and I get the same box. Good luck with that with just about any, Dell, HP, or Lenova model. They are constant moving targets. There is one build of the OS, it’s just easy to Support the suckers, consumers like simple, AE’s want to record not trouble shoot, dealers want to set it up ship it and never see it again. Apple like everybody tends to exaggerate the performance, but damn it when they work they work. I have owned and built on both platforms, I like the ease of Apple, it’s nice not worrying what’s under the cover. Of course I’m a Luddite, main Machine Radar V/24 running BE so what do I know. "I like the ease of Apple, it’s nice not worrying what’s under the cover." Not to pick on you specifically, but this is the type of low-key Mac elitist stuff that I'm talking about. You're simply assuming I should have issues because it's not Mac. I run windows machines and never had an issue with them aside from stuff I've caused myself or the occasional power supply failure after a decade of usage. You guys don't see that you're saying these things, I get that part. You get defensive when I call you out on it. I get that part too. But it gets really old in thread after thread of "PCs fail all the time" yet most of the guys saying it have also been using Macs for 20 years straight.. I used to own a Mac for recording after buying into the "Mac are for creatives" and "only professionals use Macs" and after the 2nd time replacing the motherboard at MY expense (that Apple kept telling me were failing because I was somehow "allowing" it to overheat) I decided to swear them off and return to PCs. And I've never said that Mac OS was inferior or that Windows was superior. I've used both and they both do mostly the same things. All I've ever complained about is the unfounded elitist attitude around Macs.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2021 9:10:18 GMT -6
OK - I think you're the one that's getting defensive. I couldn't give two shits what anyone uses. It's a ridiculous conversation we're having.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Oct 21, 2021 9:13:31 GMT -6
I enjoyed how they opened with a scene where the guy was recording and mixing in his garage. Cheapest mic and mic stand, cheapest interface, sm57… $3000 barefoots. A guy who truly believes monitors are the most important part of the chain.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2021 9:15:30 GMT -6
I enjoyed how they opened with a scene where the guy was recording and mixing in his garage. Cheapest mic and mic stand, cheapest interface, sm57… $3000 barefoots. OK, svart - that video opener makes me want to buy a PC. Nice mic placement with the side address mic.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 21, 2021 9:22:00 GMT -6
I enjoyed how they opened with a scene where the guy was recording and mixing in his garage. Cheapest mic and mic stand, cheapest interface, sm57… $3000 barefoots. OK, svart - that video opener makes me want to buy a PC. Nice mic placement with the side address mic. lol Dude's haircut makes me want to buy another PC. Or go jousting with the knaves for m'lady's honor.
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 21, 2021 9:27:51 GMT -6
lol Dude's haircut makes me want to buy another PC. Is this the same sentiment that makes me feel conflicted about using SM7B's?
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 21, 2021 9:39:02 GMT -6
lol Dude's haircut makes me want to buy another PC. Is this the same sentiment that makes me feel conflicted about using SM7B's? Sure, why not? That opener was a bit cringey though..
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2021 9:44:19 GMT -6
A lot of the “fan boy” attitude comes from the fact that their systems work, keep in mind the majority don’t have any background in supporting a computer or software. Many have PC’s sitting on their desks at work and they seam problematic in comparison. Yes these PC’s are probably older, not optimized for their actual tasks and who ever supports them is supporting 30 different types of boxes. I’ll say it again the only true advantage of a Mac is from a support or set up perspective it’s so much easier because every mini I7-8700B. I can walk into any dealer and I get the same box. Good luck with that with just about any, Dell, HP, or Lenova model. They are constant moving targets. There is one build of the OS, it’s just easy to Support the suckers, consumers like simple, AE’s want to record not trouble shoot, dealers want to set it up ship it and never see it again. Apple like everybody tends to exaggerate the performance, but damn it when they work they work. I have owned and built on both platforms, I like the ease of Apple, it’s nice not worrying what’s under the cover. Of course I’m a Luddite, main Machine Radar V/24 running BE so what do I know. "I like the ease of Apple, it’s nice not worrying what’s under the cover." Not to pick on you specifically, but this is the type of low-key Mac elitist stuff that I'm talking about. You're simply assuming I should have issues because it's not Mac. I run windows machines and never had an issue with them aside from stuff I've caused myself or the occasional power supply failure after a decade of usage. You guys don't see that you're saying these things, I get that part. You get defensive when I call you out on it. I get that part too. But it gets really old in thread after thread of "PCs fail all the time" yet most of the guys saying it have also been using Macs for 20 years straight.. I used to own a Mac for recording after buying into the "Mac are for creatives" and "only professionals use Macs" and after the 2nd time replacing the motherboard at MY expense (that Apple kept telling me were failing because I was somehow "allowing" it to overheat) I decided to swear them off and return to PCs. And I've never said that Mac OS was inferior or that Windows was superior. I've used both and they both do mostly the same things. All I've ever complained about is the unfounded elitist attitude around Macs. No the one making assumptions is you, your looking fo the fight in my statement. Nothing wrong with Windows Mac is just easy to support. You know my background I have built and supported way to many systems on both formats. Of course that means I have also had this same conversation with others who have done the same professionally and those who build and write the tools we use. Hell I’m packing for a funeral where will be spending time with execs and design staff from Dell Lenovo as well as VM ware, that’s just family. We have talked before about the fact that for a lot of what I do I need to exists in both ecosystems. We also joked about how Apples payment system was all PC based. Ain’t no elitist additude. Hell I think both are OS’s are bloated as hell so that they can appeal to the consumer, I’m the one who has been preaching for years that we need to approach this like an enterprise and manufacturers should band together for a more enterprise specific OS. Yeah that’s elitist behavior, I such a fan let’s dump it because it’s superior? Come on man!
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Oct 21, 2021 10:16:33 GMT -6
The new M1pro chips are on 5nm. AMD *might* be able to get their new chips out on 5nm next year, knowing them it could be end of next year (apple buys up the fab time at TSMC). Intel is pretty far behind, probably 2023/24? Probably 2025 knowing them, just looking at options prices it doesn't predict a huge positive for Intel. Iphones are due to go to 3nm next year. By 2023 Apple might have some 3nm computer chips for Mac Pro. That's where the tech is allowing them to run cool and powerful vs the competition. Its going to be interesting. All this said an Intel 14nm chip will probably run audio the best today since software needs to adapt to M1.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Oct 21, 2021 10:30:05 GMT -6
"A guy who truly believes monitors are the most important part of the chain." It's important to also get a $5000 display and another $1000 for the stand. Can always open the garage to save money on room treatment
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 21, 2021 10:45:44 GMT -6
It's important to also get a $5000 display and another $1000 for the stand. Can always open the garage to save money on room treatment But how else will people know I'm a recordist, musician, and owner of Barefoot Sound Monitors if I don't open the garage??
Excuse me guys, I'm off to the coffee shop to write my novel/movie script.
*whack*
The mini price points are always so tempting, but without a dedicated GPU, it sounds like a lot of my video gear for remote streaming wouldn't work. I also don't know if there's enough separate USB root hubs to operate multiple HDMI capture cards for that matter...
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Oct 21, 2021 11:57:53 GMT -6
It's important to also get a $5000 display and another $1000 for the stand. Can always open the garage to save money on room treatment But how else will people know I'm a recordist, musician, and owner of Barefoot Sound Monitors if I don't open the garage??
Excuse me guys, I'm off to the coffee shop to write my novel/movie script.
*whack*
The mini price points are always so tempting, but without a dedicated GPU, it sounds like a lot of my video gear for remote streaming wouldn't work. I also don't know if there's enough separate USB root hubs to operate multiple HDMI capture cards for that matter...
The M1 Mac Mini was not designed and built for your needs any more than my VW Jetta was made to move furniture. But the Mac Mini has historically filled a niche for recording at an affordable price, and the new M1 raises the bar. It’s a bit sad that this thread is being trolled by Apple haters instead of discussing the OP.
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 21, 2021 12:08:36 GMT -6
The M1 Mac Mini was not designed and built for your needs any more than my VW Jetta was made to move furniture. But the Mac Mini has historically filled a niche for recording at an affordable price, and the new M1 raises the bar. It’s a bit sad that this thread is being trolled by Apple haters instead of discussing the OP. I hope you don't take my comment as negative towards Apple. I'm just jesting about the video; speaking from the other side of the curtain, I've had my fill of the ad/marketing team doing things that caused the rest of us to die a little on the inside.
I understand your simile/metaphor with the Jetta, but I do think it's a bit of an exaggeration, since I don't the Mac Mini is really the Jetta of the lineup; nor do I think Apple makes a GM cargo van (would the Pro be like, a Hummer, or high end truck?). I'm more asserting that there's still a sort of gap somewhere between the Mac Mini, various MBP models, and Mac Pro, that if they could fill, I'd probably be down with jumping back in the waters.
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Oct 21, 2021 12:23:13 GMT -6
The M1 Mac Mini was not designed and built for your needs any more than my VW Jetta was made to move furniture. But the Mac Mini has historically filled a niche for recording at an affordable price, and the new M1 raises the bar. It’s a bit sad that this thread is being trolled by Apple haters instead of discussing the OP. I hope you don't take my comment as negative towards Apple. I'm just jesting about the video; speaking from the other side of the curtain, I've had my fill of the ad/marketing team doing things that caused the rest of us to die a little on the inside.
I understand your simile/metaphor with the Jetta, but I do think it's a bit of an exaggeration, since I don't the Mac Mini is really the Jetta of the lineup; nor do I think Apple makes a GM cargo van (would the Pro be like, a Hummer, or high end truck?). I'm more asserting that there's still a sort of gap somewhere between the Mac Mini, various MBP models, and Mac Pro, that if they could fill, I'd probably be down with jumping back in the waters. . I get it but I personally don’t know if Apple will ever do what you’re asking. A few years back many of us waited in anticipation for a more powerful Mac Mini that was strongly speculated. Instead Apple made the Mini less powerful, aiming for home consumers and not creatives. That’s when I bought a NOS 2012 Mac Mini. I’m happy that my M1 is a step up but I don’t think anyone should assume Apple will make an M1 Pro model of the the Mini.
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 21, 2021 12:54:10 GMT -6
I get it but I personally don’t know if Apple will ever do what you’re asking. A few years back many of us waited in anticipation for a more powerful Mac Mini that was strongly speculated. Instead Apple made the Mini less powerful, aiming for home consumers and not creatives. That’s when I bought a NOS 2012 Mac Mini. I’m happy that my M1 is a step up but I don’t think anyone should assume Apple will make an M1 Pro model of the the Mini. I'm not saying they really need to either; although they technically hit that sweet spot with some older intel MBP's. I'm just expressing my slowly growing interest as my aging xeon build begins to show signs of failure with Windows 11 (please, no) on the horizon.
If anything, I'm actually more optimistic after they re-introduced more connectivity on the new MBP models, but yes, you're most likely right that I'll never be able to get a single system that meets all my technical requirements without going with a Mac Pro or building a new PC.
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on Oct 21, 2021 13:08:55 GMT -6
I get it but I personally don’t know if Apple will ever do what you’re asking. A few years back many of us waited in anticipation for a more powerful Mac Mini that was strongly speculated. Instead Apple made the Mini less powerful, aiming for home consumers and not creatives. That’s when I bought a NOS 2012 Mac Mini. I’m happy that my M1 is a step up but I don’t think anyone should assume Apple will make an M1 Pro model of the the Mini. I'm not saying they really need to either; although they technically hit that sweet spot with some older intel MBP's. I'm just expressing my slowly growing interest as my aging xeon build begins to show signs of failure with Windows 11 (please, no) on the horizon.
If anything, I'm actually more optimistic after they re-introduced more connectivity on the new MBP models, but yes, you're most likely right that I'll never be able to get a single system that meets all my technical requirements without going with a Mac Pro or building a new PC.
Does the new M1 Pro MBP meet your needs? I know it gets pricier.
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 21, 2021 13:21:01 GMT -6
Depends on how it handles the TB3/USB controllers. It'd be one of those moments where I'd probably just have to take it on a test drive.
I'll probably wait and see how Windows 11 rolls out and what the state of GPU supply is once the Frankenstein officially dies though.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2021 14:03:57 GMT -6
But how else will people know I'm a recordist, musician, and owner of Barefoot Sound Monitors if I don't open the garage??
Excuse me guys, I'm off to the coffee shop to write my novel/movie script.
*whack*
The mini price points are always so tempting, but without a dedicated GPU, it sounds like a lot of my video gear for remote streaming wouldn't work. I also don't know if there's enough separate USB root hubs to operate multiple HDMI capture cards for that matter...
The M1 Mac Mini was not designed and built for your needs any more than my VW Jetta was made to move furniture. But the Mac Mini has historically filled a niche for recording at an affordable price, and the new M1 raises the bar. It’s a bit sad that this thread is being trolled by Apple haters instead of discussing the OP. You never saw me pack a VW Passat wagon! To evacuate during Ike!
|
|