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Post by ragan on Jun 26, 2021 15:38:56 GMT -6
We all hear things differently of course but the Soyuz just sounds more scooped, brighter, and glassier to me. I know some people love those things in an SDC but I run from them, personally. The KM84 just sounds right to me. On guitars I want to hear wood, not a glassy glistening shimmer. Totally subjective, obviously.
Edit: I should say, among the airier, glassier SDC kind of aesthetic, I think the Soyuz sounds really nice. I just mean that I don't dig that aesthetic generally
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Post by rowmat on Jun 26, 2021 16:18:10 GMT -6
A KM84 is a KM84.
Nothing against the Soyuz but it is not a KM84.
Either you want the KM84 sound or you don’t.
If you do then it’s obvious you need a KM84.
If you don’t then use something else you like but don’t expect it to sound just like a KM84.
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Post by tkaitkai on Jun 27, 2021 10:15:08 GMT -6
Both clips sound really nice. I think I'd give a slight edge to the KM84 — clearer mids, more relaxed top, and wider stereo image.
If I had to nitpick, it seems like the 013 (very slightly) brings out a resonant lower midrange frequency that I'm not really hearing on the KM84. It still sounds wonderful, though. I'm sure that could easily be addressed with EQ.
Great comparison.
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Post by Omicron9 on Jun 27, 2021 11:31:06 GMT -6
Soyuz for me. That tiny bit of extra detail makes the track more alive, engaging, and welcoming, for lack of better terms. Just MHO.
Thanks for posting these!
-09
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jun 28, 2021 22:10:29 GMT -6
Soyuz is to be applauded for not trying to copy other mic models. It gets exhausting hearing so-and-so’s new “84,” “47,” etc. Kudos to them.
...and the KM84 slays it.
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 3, 2021 21:07:51 GMT -6
84s are not my go to for acoustic gtr and neither are the 013 fets.
I dig the Soyuz for overheads alot
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 3, 2021 21:34:39 GMT -6
I hate to say this, but I was at shoot-out in a nice studio where an acoustic guitar was recorded with a vintage Neumann U67, U87, Soyuz 0-13, Soyuz 0-11, Soyuz 0-19 FET and the Beeznees KM 84 style SDC.
Over 20 audio engineers and producers unanimously picked one mic, The Soyuz 0-19. It was so clearly better sounding. The only thing was the vintage U67 instantly sounded like you were listening to a Beatles track, so if you want that sound, nothing beats it. Still, it was a blind test and the results were unanimous.
Too bad there wasn't a real KM84 there.
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Post by Ward on Jul 5, 2021 7:26:46 GMT -6
I hate to say this, but I was at shoot-out in a nice studio where an acoustic guitar was recorded with a vintage Neumann U67, U87, Soyuz 0-13, Soyuz 0-11, Soyuz 0-19 FET and the Beeznees KM 84 style SDC. Over 20 audio engineers and producers unanimously picked one mic, The Soyuz 0-19. It was so clearly better sounding. The only thing was the vintage U67 instantly sounded like you were listening to a Beatles track, so if you want that sound, nothing beats it. Still, it was a blind test and the results were unanimous. Too bad there wasn't a real KM84 there. Ben is pretty proud of his Lulu model. I've never heard a disparaging word. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 5, 2021 11:20:04 GMT -6
I actually liked that Lulu a lot. It's very different from a KM84 though, and much further away than the Soyuz.
It had a very dark, but complex and rich quality. The kind that would add vibe mood for days . I'm thinking piano on a Nick Cage or Tom Waits recording, or even Roxy Music.
It had a beautiful darkness.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on Jul 7, 2021 8:15:57 GMT -6
I hate to say this, but I was at shoot-out in a nice studio where an acoustic guitar was recorded with a vintage Neumann U67, U87, Soyuz 0-13, Soyuz 0-11, Soyuz 0-19 FET and the Beeznees KM 84 style SDC. Over 20 audio engineers and producers unanimously picked one mic, The Soyuz 0-19. It was so clearly better sounding. The only thing was the vintage U67 instantly sounded like you were listening to a Beatles track, so if you want that sound, nothing beats it. Still, it was a blind test and the results were unanimous. Too bad there wasn't a real KM84 there. Ben is pretty proud of his Lulu model. I've never heard a disparaging word. Great mic, just not an 84! That’s the thing we use the best tool to get the tone that we can get our hands on. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 7, 2021 8:45:13 GMT -6
I hate to say this, but I was at shoot-out in a nice studio where an acoustic guitar was recorded with a vintage Neumann U67, U87, Soyuz 0-13, Soyuz 0-11, Soyuz 0-19 FET and the Beeznees KM 84 style SDC. Over 20 audio engineers and producers unanimously picked one mic, The Soyuz 0-19. It was so clearly better sounding. The only thing was the vintage U67 instantly sounded like you were listening to a Beatles track, so if you want that sound, nothing beats it. Still, it was a blind test and the results were unanimous. Too bad there wasn't a real KM84 there. Ben is pretty proud of his Lulu model. I've never heard a disparaging word. Lulu's have been on my overheads for years and I don't even want to swap in something else. I dig them. |
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Post by Quint on Jul 7, 2021 10:32:05 GMT -6
Just how close does the Lulu get to the 84, or is this moreso one of those things where it doesn't necessarily get that close, but it doesn't matter because it's cool In its own right?
I've never heard one, but I'm kind of interested.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 7, 2021 10:35:30 GMT -6
Just how close does the Lulu get to the 84, or is this moreso one of those things where it doesn't necessarily get that close, but it doesn't matter because it's cool In its own right? I've never heard one, but I'm kind of interested. I don't have/never used an 84. Did a shootout on overheads with the Lulu's and 184's years ago and preferred the Lulu's by a wide margin. Kept me from spending money on 184s. |
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Post by Quint on Jul 7, 2021 11:09:52 GMT -6
Just how close does the Lulu get to the 84, or is this moreso one of those things where it doesn't necessarily get that close, but it doesn't matter because it's cool In its own right? I've never heard one, but I'm kind of interested. I don't have/never used an 84. Did a shootout on overheads with the Lulu's and 184's years ago and preferred the Lulu's by a wide margin. Kept me from spending money on 184s. $900 for a pair ain't bad. Their version of the KM54 has me interested too. $1,200 for a pair of those seems also in interesting. I'm assuming it uses the same capsule as the 84 clone. I'm gonna have to read more about these. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 7, 2021 15:03:23 GMT -6
Quint, the Lulu's sound quite different than an 84. It's a really colored and beautiful sound in its own right, but nowhere near as versatile as the 84. I've only used it one time though, but 20 engineers and producers all agreed, and the shootout I'm referring to was a blind test.
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Post by notneeson on Jul 7, 2021 15:10:45 GMT -6
I know I had good results with a Lulu Fet on banjo one time, can't remember what else— we did all the acoustic guitars later at my place, so not that. Everything I've used from Ben has been great.
And KM84s are kind of like vintage Neves to me, nothing modern has that exact special sauce. But, something like a Lulu Fet to a BAE 1073 can still be a killer tool.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 7, 2021 16:57:15 GMT -6
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Post by donr on Jul 7, 2021 18:19:40 GMT -6
I'm no expert here, but are the particular virtues of the KM84 not reproducable in a modern SDC? Honest and flattering response and gracious off axis pickup?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 7, 2021 18:55:13 GMT -6
Yes. I did some comparisons. Shannon Rhoades convinced me to put nickel capsules in them. Sold them. We observed that a KM84 and KM184 sounded much more similar to each other than the Lulu FET. It didn’t sound like it had anything to do with the Neumanns. |
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 7, 2021 19:02:29 GMT -6
I'm no expert here, but are the particular virtues of the KM84 not reproducable in a modern SDC? Honest and flattering response and gracious off axis pickup? There are several very nice SDCs made today. We have a pair of Sennheiser MKH 8040s that are very high quality yet clinical sounding. I really like Soyuz’s branding. I use one of John Peluso’s P28s religiously for stereo miking banjo neck joint with a U87 on body. There’s something about the midrange of a KM84 that nothing else does in the same way. The resolution is unmatched and the instruments mix themselves. |
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Post by donr on Jul 7, 2021 19:07:43 GMT -6
I'm no expert here, but are the particular virtues of the KM84 not reproducable in a modern SDC? Honest and flattering response and gracious off axis pickup? There are several very nice SDCs made today. We have a pair of Sennheiser MKH 8040s that are very high quality yet clinical sounding. I really like Soyuz’s branding. I use one of John Peluso’s P28s religiously for stereo miking banjo neck joint with a U87 on body. There’s something about the midrange of a KM84 that nothing else does in the same way. The resolution is unmatched and the instruments mix themselves. Well, that's what I'm looking for, Dan. The instruments mixing themselves. |
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jul 7, 2021 19:10:57 GMT -6
To reiterate what I said a while back, you gotta hand it to a company like Soyuz for doing their own thing and owning that thing. Beautiful craftsmanship, cool designs, and their mics sound very good. I’ve tried a few and have been impressed.
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Post by superwack on Jul 8, 2021 17:04:59 GMT -6
I don't have/never used an 84. Did a shootout on overheads with the Lulu's and 184's years ago and preferred the Lulu's by a wide margin. Kept me from spending money on 184s. $900 for a pair ain't bad. Their version of the KM54 has me interested too. $1,200 for a pair of those seems also in interesting. I'm assuming it uses the same capsule as the 84 clone. I'm gonna have to read more about these. This is one of those "I read somewhere" things but I've read the Tube LULUs sound more like KM84s than the FET version. I think it was in a thread about KM54s and someone made that curious observation - never heard it anywhere else. I agree though, for the price I've often considered taking the plunge. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 11, 2021 8:04:35 GMT -6
Don, the Soyuz 0-13 is as similar as any mic I've heard, but somehow it has it's own sound. It's kind of like a 84 on steroids. It's worth a tryout for sure.
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Post by kaleida on Jul 12, 2021 0:16:36 GMT -6
$900 for a pair ain't bad. Their version of the KM54 has me interested too. $1,200 for a pair of those seems also in interesting. I'm assuming it uses the same capsule as the 84 clone. I'm gonna have to read more about these. This is one of those "I read somewhere" things but I've read the Tube LULUs sound more like KM84s than the FET version. I think it was in a thread about KM54s and someone made that curious observation - never heard it anywhere else. I agree though, for the price I've often considered taking the plunge. That might have been me. I’ve used the Lulu FETs and Tubes. Both are fairly flat and detailed, with the FETs having a slight presence tilt / low end roll off and the Tubes having a slight low end tilt / high end roll off. I’m not sure if it’s due to circuit or capsule. To my ears, the Tubes sounded more like KM84s than the FETs did. I’m not sure if either have the rich midrange, low level detail and transient response of the Neumanns since I didn’t compare them side by side, but I think they’re definitely a good buy and one or the other could suit your preferences depending on what you’re looking for. Lulu Tubes definitely work for bright acoustic guitars or if you want lots of low end from overheads / rely on them for the full kit sound. Not so great for genres where that’s not appropriate and you just want cymbals / attack from the snare / toms. The FETs are brighter but not overly so. I’d still go for the Neumanns when available, but at 4x the price, well, the Lulus are good enough for rock n roll… |
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