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Post by Drew @ UA on May 14, 2021 4:57:43 GMT -6
LUNA has the same basic comping PT had for 20+ years, until the Target Playlist feature was added. Same keyboard shortcuts even. Logic's swipe comp (added after 20+ years of development time) is SUPER cool!! I'm sure if enough users request it, LUNA will get it, and I dare say a lot sooner than 20 years!! That's the ONLY factor in LUNA getting whatever features our user base tell us they want, development time. So come along for the ride, or not, that's cool too. Fair enough. And you’re right, we all got by without it for years. Hardware support is a bigger deal. Kind of a deal breaker in fact which is a shame because I love the way Luna approaches mixing/recording. Hardware Inserts is def up there on the requests list!! And LUNA will get it at some point. But thankfully for 10s of thousands of users, ITB is working for now. Thanks for your patience.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 6:41:02 GMT -6
I had gas bad for about 2 weeks...had my Martin up for sale wanting to buy all sorts of stuff. Then took my Martin into Gruhns and it just smoked everything they had there. My Martin is no longer for sale. I occasionally have moments of insanity. Selling a beautiful martin to fund plug-in emulations..... please... please...dont No, it was going to fund a different Martin. Had nothing to do with this.
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Post by Drew @ UA on May 14, 2021 6:43:19 GMT -6
Yeah I thought I remembered seeing a LUNA comping video quite awhile ago. See this video
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 6:54:40 GMT -6
You mean copy and paste? Come on, Drew - it’s not up to par. I’m fine with waiting on it, but don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. Look - I appreciate Luna - I wanted a DAW badly from you guys...that’s great. It’s really awesome. But people don’t care that Luna is a year old. UA is competing against extremely mature software and like it or not - that’s the level it has to be to win converts. I have been pleasantly surprised at the ease I’ve had getting into Luna with all the same PTs shortcuts...but just as I’m sure you guys get a little pissy hearing people complaining, we users get a little pissy being heavily invested in the platform with some rudimentary options missing. It's just development time, that's it. And that was my point. Not sure why that's being met with hostility. As mentioned, as LUNA matures, it'll get these features, and it'll get them faster than other DAWs. It's that simple. Thanks for your patience. Hostility? No - just saying that I find your claiming PT/Logic not implementing comping for 20 years a straw man argument. That R&D has already been done and an absolutely integral feature for modern production. No one is saying Luna isn’t impressive and great and all those things - it’s just a valid criticism for what I need to make a complete transition from another DAW. I guess when I see features like the console implementation being done first before comping or HW compensation it just doesn’t make sense.
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Post by javamad on May 14, 2021 6:58:20 GMT -6
I'm really liking this. I had the Vision CS, the 2500 and the API summing already so its reasonably priced to upgrade (€174)
Size: yes it's small on my iMac 2020 screen ... and a little too big actually on my 1080p TV screen ... but I don't need to actually know that the numbers on the EQ are, I can see the position of the knob and thats enough ... using my ears more than my eyes I guess. If I scale my screen resolution 1 step, its bigger and more readable but I can then only see 16 channels .. at the default resolution I can see 21, which I prefer.
DSP vs Native: I have found it seamless ... I'm not even thinking of where its running. Great job UA
First impressions: I LOVE having filters right there in every channel ... cannot say how much of an improvement that is ... I was already familiar with the vibe of the Vision and I had previously experimented a bit in Logic with using it on everything .. but it was a DSP hog in that scenario. Having it built in and native is great. It sounds really good too. I will be getting this definitely when the demo runs out and when the Neve and SSL come out will get them too. (I already have the SSL and Neve channel strips and bus compressors) as I really like the idea of being able to switch consoles per project and even mix/match. Exciting times!
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Post by kcatthedog on May 14, 2021 7:44:24 GMT -6
If you already have a fair number of the plug ins, the upgrade price is more reasonable for the features, especially if you are recording in Luna.
But, $700 usd a pop(?) per brand (API, neve, ssl), obviously speculating about future prices, but quickly is 2-3 grand in USD, much more in other currencies.
The 14 day demo will certainly help people decide, which way to go.
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Post by gouge on May 14, 2021 8:08:11 GMT -6
Lol. Good luck.
Reaper all the way.
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Post by Drew @ UA on May 14, 2021 8:38:33 GMT -6
It's just development time, that's it. And that was my point. Not sure why that's being met with hostility. As mentioned, as LUNA matures, it'll get these features, and it'll get them faster than other DAWs. It's that simple. Thanks for your patience. Hostility? No - just saying that I find your claiming PT/Logic not implementing comping for 20 years a straw man argument. That R&D has already been done and an absolutely integral feature for modern production. No one is saying Luna isn’t impressive and great and all those things - it’s just a valid criticism for what I need to make a complete transition from another DAW. I guess when I see features like the console implementation being done first before comping or HW compensation it just doesn’t make sense. It's smart to divide development time between fixes, features, and novel ideas. This gives something to everyone with each release or two. Why did it take PT/Logic so long to add those features? They were doing exactly the same thing.
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Post by Drew @ UA on May 14, 2021 8:40:05 GMT -6
Lol. Good luck. Reaper all the way. Glad you've found the tool that suites your needs! We live in a world of almost infinite possibilities. Imagine if the developers of Reaper didn't think there was room for "one more DAW" back then they started?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 14, 2021 12:15:30 GMT -6
Hostility? No - just saying that I find your claiming PT/Logic not implementing comping for 20 years a straw man argument. That R&D has already been done and an absolutely integral feature for modern production. No one is saying Luna isn’t impressive and great and all those things - it’s just a valid criticism for what I need to make a complete transition from another DAW. I guess when I see features like the console implementation being done first before comping or HW compensation it just doesn’t make sense. It's smart to divide development time between fixes, features, and novel ideas. This gives something to everyone with each release or two. Why did it take PT/Logic so long to add those features? They were doing exactly the same thing. I sympathize with you here Drew. I'm in software sales myself and we have to divide priorities in the same fashion. And, frankly, stability always comes first. If you lose your existing users there's no point in adding new ones. Actually, the software my company sells has a lot of parallels to Luna. New entrant in a really old legacy space that hasn't seen a lot of real innovation in a long time. Just like you, we're doing things that our competitors literally can't do, game changing stuff for the industry (real estate by way). But, also like you, there are some kind of basic things that our competitors can do that we simply can't because they're actually harder to do with the type of ambitious system we're building. I can see this being an issue with Luna. For example. To do hardware inserts to the level that we expect UAD to do them is pretty complex. Hardware insert support sucks for most software, or it's usable at best. We're used to it, but would expect more from UAD. Take your time and get it right. However, to Johnkenn's point. He's right that it's pretty weak to say that comping is possible in Luna when we all know that it's not nearly the same thing as what more mature DAW's can do. It's ok. Own it. Don't back down. You can't swipe in an API Box (or your semi-affordable console of choice) either so I get why you're tired of hearing it. But we're all adults here and most of us love UAD, so you won't lose credibility by owning the shortcomings on a really promising tool. In five years we'll probably all be on Luna at the pace you're going. You have a lot to be proud of on this project. Keep it up!
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Post by Drew @ UA on May 14, 2021 12:21:51 GMT -6
It's smart to divide development time between fixes, features, and novel ideas. This gives something to everyone with each release or two. Why did it take PT/Logic so long to add those features? They were doing exactly the same thing. I sympathize with you here Drew. I'm in software sales myself and we have to divide priorities in the same fashion. And, frankly, stability always comes first. If you lose your existing users there's no point in adding new ones. Actually, the software my company sells has a lot of parallels to Luna. New entrant in a really old legacy space that hasn't seen a lot of real innovation in a long time. Just like you, we're doing things that our competitors literally can't do, game changing stuff for the industry (real estate by way). But, also like you, there are some kind of basic things that our competitors can do that we simply can't because they're actually harder to do with the type of ambitious system we're building. I can see this being an issue with Luna. For example. To do hardware inserts to the level that we expect UAD to do them is pretty complex. Hardware insert support sucks for most software, or it's usable at best. We're used to it, but would expect more from UAD. Take your time and get it right. However, to Johnkenn's point. He's right that it's pretty weak to say that comping is possible in Luna when we all know that it's not nearly the same thing as what more mature DAW's can do. It's ok. Own it. Don't back down. You can't swipe in an API Box (or your semi-affordable console of choice) either so I get why you're tired of hearing it. But we're all adults here and most of us love UAD, so you won't lose credibility by owning the shortcomings on a really promising tool. In five years we'll probably all be on Luna at the pace you're going. You have a lot to be proud of on this project. Keep it up! Appreciate the post! But please do not have sympathy for me, none is needed! This thread is ALL ABOUT "owning" LUNA and giving people the perspective they need to see that LUNA is well ahead of where other DAWs where at the same point in their dev.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 15:23:38 GMT -6
Do the API Console emus color the sound even when not being used? Like is there any difference in the sound if you put the EQs on all the channels will it color the sound?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 15:28:00 GMT -6
Yeah I guess it does...just read the emu page on the UA site. That actually makes a little more sense to me...
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Post by gouge on May 14, 2021 15:44:32 GMT -6
Lol. Good luck. Reaper all the way. Glad you've found the tool that suites your needs! We live in a world of almost infinite possibilities. Imagine if the developers of Reaper didn't think there was room for "one more DAW" back then they started? but they did.. and it's awseome.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 15:59:22 GMT -6
Ok...I'm starting to like this...don't know if I realized how much it was contributing to the sound...but it definitely is. And I'm starting to get a feel for the 2500...the mix knob is my friend
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Post by phdamage on May 14, 2021 16:05:25 GMT -6
i also have the Vision and never use it anymore! I feel like UAD are moving towards mostly LUNA and Apollo/unison based stuff.
I already have a ton of their plugs, but i buy fewer and fewer every year - maybe none this last year? granted, my plugin collection has also grown exponentially since i started back with my UAD-1 many years ago
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 16:36:29 GMT -6
Think I’m going to mix to versions of the same song and see how things go.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 14, 2021 18:36:36 GMT -6
Well shit...that's pretty damn good. It really does what you think of with Summing - kind've gives you that big huge bottom and punchiness. But it definitely is slower for me...maybe it's something I could build a workflow with.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 15, 2021 1:42:14 GMT -6
Well shit...that's pretty damn good. It really does what you think of with Summing - kind've gives you that big huge bottom and punchiness. But it definitely is slower for me...maybe it's something I could build a workflow with. If the argument is "buy this instead of a Box"... how strong is the case?
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Post by kcatthedog on May 15, 2021 5:23:36 GMT -6
There’s a 16 Dangerous summing box on GS now.
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Post by dankin on May 15, 2021 12:27:39 GMT -6
I need to dig in to Luna more, just haven't had the time to experiment with a new DAW. How efficient is the API when running it native? A HUGE issue for me with Luna is needing to always have an Apollo hooked up to even be able to open a session...feels like we stepped back to the old TDM days. I do use a Twin for traveling and at home (have the 16mkII for the main rig) but there's so many times I just need to bounce mix's or versions/stems and it's nice that I can do that from anywhere with PT only. For that same reason my 2 Octo's sit mostly unused. With Pro Tools moving to the Hybrid engine it seems to be the best of both worlds for me, DSP when tracking, full native for everything else.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 15, 2021 12:29:21 GMT -6
Well shit...that's pretty damn good. It really does what you think of with Summing - kind've gives you that big huge bottom and punchiness. But it definitely is slower for me...maybe it's something I could build a workflow with. If the argument is "buy this instead of a Box"... how strong is the case? I mean - does software anything sound as good as hardware anything? I’d say the advantage is still with HW, but it’s close and the convenience is just an order of magnitude better.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 15, 2021 12:31:08 GMT -6
I need to dig in to Luna more, just haven't had the time to experiment with a new DAW. How efficient is the API when running it native? A HUGE issue for me with Luna is needing to always have an Apollo hooked up to even be able to open a session...feels like we stepped back to the old TDM days. I do use a Twin for traveling and at home (have the 16mkII for the main rig) but there's so many times I just need to bounce mix's or versions/stems and it's nice that I can do that from anywhere with PT only. For that same reason my 2 Octo's sit mostly unused. With Pro Tools moving to the Hybrid engine it seems to be the best of both worlds for me, DSP when tracking, full native for everything else. I was surprised that my 2012 Mac mini had no issues whatsoever with it. Mind you, I didn’t change many of the other usual plugs I use.
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Post by nobtwiddler on May 15, 2021 12:32:04 GMT -6
OK, I figured I'd post this cause of the above post. So I bought the new API / Luna strip. Sounds great, I'm digging it. Pulled up an old track, mixed it without vocals, via Luna in the box! Even used the 2500 on the mix buss! Simple mix, drums, a few electric guitars, and acoustics. Sounded great...
Then I had a bit more free time, so I thought I would give the same mix another go, routing everything thru the Dangerous 2Buss +. Using the same plugs / settings, just really adjusting the levels to make things similar to mix #1... The difference was very noticeable. Actually, I was quite amazed that I even thought the ITB mix sounded good ! Go figure.
It's my guess I'm still not good enough mixing totally ITB as yet? But who knows? This is the third time I've done this type of comparison, using DP, PT, and now Luna... But each and every time, the mix sent to either my console, remote rig, or the 2BUSS + always sounded better. and what I mean by better, bigger, wider, and with more depth. The ITB mixes always sounded cleaner, and a bit crisper if that means anything. Each instrument, was more identifiable, and less glued, a bit like everything was placed on a flat surface? For lack of a better term, like a quick ruff mix. It seemed to me that the mixes sent to the mixers / summers, melded together better, much more of a final mix. At least to me. It could simply be, this is what I'm used to...remember I've been mixing thru analog consoles since I opened my first studio in 72. So I'm a bit biased to say the least.
Next thing to try will be to keep those settings, and run thru my little Helios / Api / Neve rig.
Now that said, I'm really digging the Luna workflow, and Luna in general. I know it's not the the software, it's must be me...
I'm, gonna need more beer! Much more!!!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 15, 2021 12:37:32 GMT -6
OK, I figured I'd post this cause of the above post. So I bought the new API / Luna strip. Sounds great, I'm digging it. Pulled up an old track, mixed it without vocals, via Luna in the box! Even used the 2500 on the mix buss! Simple mix, drums, a few electric guitars, and acoustics. Sounded great... Then I had a bit more free time, so I thought I would give the same mix another go, routing everything thru the Dangerous 2Buss +. Using the same plugs / settings, just really adjusting the levels to make things similar to mix #1... The difference was very noticeable. Actually, I was quite amazed that I even thought the ITB mix sounded good ! Go figure. Now that said, it's my guess I'm still not good enough mixing totally ITB as yet? But who knows? This is the third time I've done this type of comparison, using DP, PT, and now Luna... But each and every time, the mix sent to either my console, remote rig, or the 2BUSS + always sounded better. and what I mean by better, bigger, wider, and with more depth. The ITB mixes always sounded cleaner, and a bit crisper if that means anything. Each instrument, was more identifiable, and less glued...It seemed to me that the mixes sent to the summers, also melded together better. Next thing to try will be to keep those settings, and run thru my little Helios / Api / Neve rig. I'm, gonna need more beer! Much more!!! So you ran the API strip through the Dangerous? Just want to make sure I gift that right. Only variable was summing?
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