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Post by levon on Mar 25, 2021 15:12:43 GMT -6
GSI VB3 is what I use. It's very very good. I do have an organ and leslie as well but VB3 is just less hassle than dragging out the leslie. Guido is a great guy too. Top notch. Yes, I love VB3. However, I like the original more than version II. Somehow it has more balls. Right now, I'm contemplating to go out of the box with a Hammond keyboard and the 2101 leslie. Nothing like rotors that move some air. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 25, 2021 15:49:39 GMT -6
Acousticsamples B5 looks nice for sure. Anyone know if the Leslie is part of the VI or a separate plug? I'm hoping for an all-in-one. McIrish - The GSI VB3 looks awesome but it also looks like the Leslie is it's own piece. Included, but separate. Isn't that a hassle? Or is not such a big deal. The Leslie cab simulation is part of B5. I used to use the Melda Leslie all the time but in the latest version of B5, the Leslie is on par with the Melda so I jist pick one or the other to taste. I run it so the modulation wheel functions as the Leslie fast/slow. Really damn fun to play. Another sound I really like is tracking my Hammond M111 (no Leslie) and running it through the B5 or Melda Leslie. Sounds great. yes! The Leslie sim really went up a notch on the last version of B5. |
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 25, 2021 16:18:54 GMT -6
I bet there is more than one VI in Logic you like. Furthermore, you also can run CPU hog plug ins on a second computer with logic.... I often run all tape sim plug or a heavy taxing mix bus combination on my second machine and this frees the CPU of the main machine.
For sure, but how do I do this? There's lots of ways I'd use it. For example, the drum samples in Logic are solid (and I know which ones I like, arguably even more important). But I'm not clear on how I route the signal through Logic on a second computer. I'm sure this is a relatively simple MIDI routing but I've primarily been an audio instrument person for a long time and haven't done anything all that complex with MIDI. I'd love if you could just give me a skeleton of how to do this from Logic to S1.
I am not a midi genius myself read the manual and watch some YT videos. It should be possible to run logic on your server computer, you route all logic VI audio into your main DAW.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 25, 2021 17:37:16 GMT -6
For sure, but how do I do this? There's lots of ways I'd use it. For example, the drum samples in Logic are solid (and I know which ones I like, arguably even more important). But I'm not clear on how I route the signal through Logic on a second computer. I'm sure this is a relatively simple MIDI routing but I've primarily been an audio instrument person for a long time and haven't done anything all that complex with MIDI. I'd love if you could just give me a skeleton of how to do this from Logic to S1.
I am not a midi genius myself read the manual and watch some YT videos. It should be possible to run logic on your server computer, you route all logic VI audio into your main DAW.
Interesting. It never occurred to me that this might be possible. I'll take a look. |
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Post by mcirish on Mar 25, 2021 17:55:51 GMT -6
GSI VB3 is what I use. It's very very good. I do have an organ and leslie as well but VB3 is just less hassle than dragging out the leslie. Guido is a great guy too. Top notch. Yes, I love VB3. However, I like the original more than version II. Somehow it has more balls. Right now, I'm contemplating to go out of the box with a Hammond keyboard and the 2101 leslie. Nothing like rotors that move some air. I think I would agree. There was something about the first version that I liked even more, but I got used to the newer version and after tweaking it a bit, it works well. I do have both versions. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 26, 2021 8:55:58 GMT -6
I downloaded the demo of B3-X last night. So far I'm not displeased but not "thrilled". But I didn't really get much time to play with it. Mainly I'm frustrated with my XK-2 not sending MIDI signals the right way. The mapping worked for the drawbars but not really for any other functions so I think I was kind of bummed about that. And for some reason it's not recognizing most XK2 MIDI signals in S1 so I still haven't figured out a way to map percussion settings and Leslie brake. I got speed working but no brake (I love the brake).
Also, the CPU hit is insane on this thing. I gotta learn how to handle latency better in S1. Logic's "zero latency" mode or whatever it's called is amazing.
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 26, 2021 14:36:02 GMT -6
I bet there is more than one VI in Logic you like. Furthermore, you also can run CPU hog plug ins on a second computer with logic.... I often run all tape sim plug or a heavy taxing mix bus combination on my second machine and this frees the CPU of the main machine.
For sure, but how do I do this? There's lots of ways I'd use it. For example, the drum samples in Logic are solid (and I know which ones I like, arguably even more important). But I'm not clear on how I route the signal through Logic on a second computer. I'm sure this is a relatively simple MIDI routing but I've primarily been an audio instrument person for a long time and haven't done anything all that complex with MIDI. I'd love if you could just give me a skeleton of how to do this from Logic to S1. Well, one way is if you're running Logic on one computer and Studio One on a different computer, you could just use Logic for its sounds, and take the audio out of it and route that into your audio interface on the S1 computer. If you need MIDI timing for some reason, you could always send MTC out of S1 and over to Logic on the other machine. That's one way. Just treat the Logic machine as if it's a sound module. |
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Post by popmann on Mar 26, 2021 16:53:18 GMT -6
I downloaded the demo of B3-X last night. So far I'm not displeased but not "thrilled". But I didn't really get much time to play with it. Mainly I'm frustrated with my XK-2 not sending MIDI signals the right way. The mapping worked for the drawbars but not really for any other functions so I think I was kind of bummed about that. And for some reason it's not recognizing most XK2 MIDI signals in S1 so I still haven't figured out a way to map percussion settings and Leslie brake. I got speed working but no brake (I love the brake). Also, the CPU hit is insane on this thing. I gotta learn how to handle latency better in S1. Logic's "zero latency" mode or whatever it's called is amazing. Couple things: Acoustic Sample B5 v2 is better. The update to v3 was a downgrade in reality for me. Not sure why--it's funny because it makes it sound more like the IK Leslie, which I auditioned back when it was ONLY the Leslie using the B5 and concluded that the built in sounds more like MY old 122. The IK has the flat, less dimensional more "full frequency range in an unrealitc way"...sound. As to latency in Studio One there was not a SINGLE instance on my old Macbook where Logic could achieve as low--let alone lower latency playing a VI. So, yes-you need to set your input buffer. S1 has two buffers that are BOTH specified BY the user--I will never understand why they put them in two different places in the UI...but, one should be set to the lowest your machine can play the most demanding VI or amp sim glitch free...the second (primary) buffer should be parked at 1024 or 2048 or wheverever your machine hits the diminishing returns for "more buffer time=more DSP". You should never really have to change these unless you buy more demanding VIs and have to change the input buffer. When you set a buffer in Logic, you're setting ONLY the input buffer...then there's a second setting about playback buffer size, which I think it's a multiplier of the input buffer (it MIGHT be fixed values-I never got too into those weeds)....Cubase you set the only buffer as, IME 512@96---which gives you like 128@96 for an input...and a ASIO Gaurd playback buffer of like 4096. Nearly never change it. Every now and again, I move it down to 256, where it literally responds FASTER than my Kronos playign it's own internal sounds because it's basically like 64@96... I honestly PREFER Studio One's implementation--because there's no BS multipliers or fractions of something--you can test YOUR machine...and find the smallest input...and bump the playback to the point of diminishing return--and you're DONE. If you're having a troubel with a heavy mix--you know which you need to change...and if you're having trouble with a newer demanding VI, you know you need to up the OTHER one. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 27, 2021 12:18:11 GMT -6
Ok, I figured out how to get the latency settings working on S1 and that helps a lot (of course). Just not familiar enough with the software.
The IK B3-X is sounding pretty good to me. The Leslie is better than a lot of sims I've heard, that's for sure. But it doesn't sound quite like an actual Leslie, but then again neither did the Logic rotary speaker. I like that it's all in one plug, nice and easy.
Popmann - given the fact that there's a general consensus that Acoustic Sample B5 has gone a bit downhill, what's your top pick? Or is different flavors of good at this point.
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Post by ragan on Mar 27, 2021 12:48:23 GMT -6
Ok, I figured out how to get the latency settings working on S1 and that helps a lot (of course). Just not familiar enough with the software. The IK B3-X is sounding pretty good to me. The Leslie is better than a lot of sims I've heard, that's for sure. But it doesn't sound quite like an actual Leslie, but then again neither did the Logic rotary speaker. I like that it's all in one plug, nice and easy. Popmann - given the fact that there's a general consensus that Acoustic Sample B5 has gone a bit downhill, what's your top pick? Or is different flavors of good at this point. Just for counterpoint, I think most people think V3 was a significant upgrade. drbill I think would agree? Subjective, obviously, but I’m not familiar with any “AS has gone downhill” narrative being prevalent. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 27, 2021 12:50:10 GMT -6
Ok, I figured out how to get the latency settings working on S1 and that helps a lot (of course). Just not familiar enough with the software. The IK B3-X is sounding pretty good to me. The Leslie is better than a lot of sims I've heard, that's for sure. But it doesn't sound quite like an actual Leslie, but then again neither did the Logic rotary speaker. I like that it's all in one plug, nice and easy. Popmann - given the fact that there's a general consensus that Acoustic Sample B5 has gone a bit downhill, what's your top pick? Or is different flavors of good at this point. Just for counterpoint, I think most people think V3 was a significant upgrade. drbill I think would agree? Subjective, obviously, but I’m not familiar with any “AS has gone downhill” narrative being prevalent. Fair enough. Maybe just on this thread. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 27, 2021 13:44:12 GMT -6
Ok, I figured out how to get the latency settings working on S1 and that helps a lot (of course). Just not familiar enough with the software. The IK B3-X is sounding pretty good to me. The Leslie is better than a lot of sims I've heard, that's for sure. But it doesn't sound quite like an actual Leslie, but then again neither did the Logic rotary speaker. I like that it's all in one plug, nice and easy. Popmann - given the fact that there's a general consensus that Acoustic Sample B5 has gone a bit downhill, what's your top pick? Or is different flavors of good at this point. Just for counterpoint, I think most people think V3 was a significant upgrade. drbill I think would agree? Subjective, obviously, but I’m not familiar with any “AS has gone downhill” narrative being prevalent. I haven't heard anything about Acoustic Samples B5 going downhill. I like it better than previous version. |
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Post by popmann on Mar 27, 2021 14:22:08 GMT -6
to be clear: my "top pick" is 100% the Acoustic Samples. They understood they were making some drastic change--because v3 allows you to switch BACK to the v2 Leslie. I didn't immediately get it to sound as good in that mode...BUT...I haven't had the time to sit with it and figure out what apsect wasn't set the same. I assume giving that option means the fact that the UI is COMPELTELY changed--means I'm setting something differently. Which might be for the v3, too--gone are the virtual mic positioning around the cab--in favor of some arbitrary numbers for distance and axis and such...to me, again as someone who mic's the Leslie on a regular basis, the visual was a much better way to do it. Put the mics back and up a foot from the open back corners, is basically how I mic it-at least for myself.
See--two people at least here think it's way better. It sounds LESS like my actual vintage leslie. Thus--until I want to spend geek time figuring out how the new UI positions mics or what settings are so different...I'll just open v2. And I can almost guarantee that if you ask, they'll give you v2 if you care to try it. The new one isn't "bad"--it's jsut like they used completely different mics in different places--made it less 3D -like people who jam 57s right up on the closed baffles on opposite sides. That's "a neat sound"--jsut not the sound of a Leslie in a room--which I got straight away with the v2.
I think the IK is FINE. It's better than the LogicX organ. I actually sat when it(IK) came out with all three running in a Logic session on the Macbook recording into the PC actual session that needed organ, seeing which I liked better. To me, it was MOST like the Logic organ, only a little better Leslie and 100x more CPU for that improvement. All three can achieve really believable results.
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2021 14:46:43 GMT -6
to be clear: my "top pick" is 100% the Acoustic Samples. They understood they were making some drastic change--because v3 allows you to switch BACK to the v2 Leslie. I didn't immediately get it to sound as good in that mode...BUT...I haven't had the time to sit with it and figure out what apsect wasn't set the same. I assume giving that option means the fact that the UI is COMPELTELY changed--means I'm setting something differently. Which might be for the v3, too--gone are the virtual mic positioning around the cab--in favor of some arbitrary numbers for distance and axis and such...to me, again as someone who mic's the Leslie on a regular basis, the visual was a much better way to do it. Put the mics back and up a foot from the open back corners, is basically how I mic it-at least for myself. See--two people at least here think it's way better. It sounds LESS like my actual vintage leslie. Thus--until I want to spend geek time figuring out how the new UI positions mics or what settings are so different...I'll just open v2. And I can almost guarantee that if you ask, they'll give you v2 if you care to try it. The new one isn't "bad"--it's jsut like they used completely different mics in different places--made it less 3D -like people who jam 57s right up on the closed baffles on opposite sides. That's "a neat sound"--jsut not the sound of a Leslie in a room--which I got straight away with the v2. I think the IK is FINE. It's better than the LogicX organ. I actually sat when it(IK) came out with all three running in a Logic session on the Macbook recording into the PC actual session that needed organ, seeing which I liked better. To me, it was MOST like the Logic organ, only a little better Leslie and 100x more CPU for that improvement. All three can achieve really believable results. Since you seem to be well versed in the subtleties of this stuff, have you tried any of the hardware Leslie clones like the Neo Ventilator? If so, how do you think they compare to plugin Leslies like the Acoustic Samples or IK? |
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Post by popmann on Mar 27, 2021 15:52:05 GMT -6
I have not. I considered getting one to marry to the Cx3 engine in the Kronos...I know some people that did that. The stock one was (IMO) always crap--even when they sold it as the stand alone Cx3 board. I was like "why can't people HEAR how fake that is up top?" I really think if you can't get a studio worthy Hammond track from either the B5 or IK, the problem involves you not knowing how to play an organ. I'm not vouching for any of the preset menus. Maybe they rock, maybe they don't...I get a nice solid model (1969 C3 in the case of the B5) set up how I would set the organ and mic the Leslie and I have my Voce MIDI drawbars and pedal--which AcousticSamples was kind enough to implement in the B5 for me. I sent them pix of the MIDI implementation charts--and the next point release they had it in there.
But, my need for a modeler is simply as a quick placeholder. Something I can use to go "what if I did something like THIS...?" ...and it needs to resemble the real deal. Not just be "a cool organ sound" because if it has a drastically different sound, it's not useful as a placeholder. I WILL say that I have one tune, that the lyric haven't worked out on--but I plan to just leave the B5, because it's a background pad part and it sounds great. It would not sound "better enough" for me to both mic'ing up the real one and replaying. Point is--even for a background thing, I would NOT have left modelers of the past--(hardware)Voce V3...NI's B4...Cx3...I'd probably not have even left the LogicX one--even though I DO think it's a cut above anything else--4-5 years ago, whenever that was...time flies.
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Post by drbill on Mar 27, 2021 17:44:12 GMT -6
I do enjoy the Voce V3 into my 122 - only problem is that it doesn't really have the juice to drive the Leslie HARD into a more saturated / distorted tone (which I love)...
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Post by popmann on Mar 27, 2021 18:21:33 GMT -6
I sold my V3 some years back. Mine needed a (line) preamp pedal...I feel like the 122 IO was an option. I didn't have the 122 back then. I used a borrowed preamp pedal later.
But, that brings up another thing--I don't drive mine hard regularly. I wonder if that's partially the disconnect (on v-leslie preference)...if the new one does that rock organ thing better. I try to turn it up just to where the high notes with the pedal down (pushed) will start to scream...and then spend most of my play time with the pedal on 1/3....I like a really bright open organ--I mic it with Sm81s up top, and it depends on context whether I even mic the bottom...
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Post by bradd on Mar 27, 2021 19:19:54 GMT -6
Popmann, I think we must have similar tastes. I like a bright Hammond as well. I typically put a 421 on the bottom of my 147, but often don’t use it. There just isn’t all that much useful sound coming from the bottom of a Leslie. My favorite mics for top are a pair of cheap EV 635as.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 28, 2021 10:20:19 GMT -6
I really think if you can't get a studio worthy Hammond track from either the B5 or IK, the problem involves you not knowing how to play an organ 100%. I've been paid for work I did with the Logic organ and nobody once said "I don't like your samples" or something. Comments were "nice part" or occasionally "what type of organ do you have at home?" This is an area of strength in the world of recording technology in my opinion. Electric organ sims are pretty darn good. (Also, tracked some stuff with IK last night. Sounded good but HOLY CRAP that thing is a CPU hog. Somebody really needs to optimize that code.) |
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Post by Quint on Mar 28, 2021 11:01:25 GMT -6
I have not. I considered getting one to marry to the Cx3 engine in the Kronos...I know some people that did that. The stock one was (IMO) always crap--even when they sold it as the stand alone Cx3 board. I was like "why can't people HEAR how fake that is up top?" I really think if you can't get a studio worthy Hammond track from either the B5 or IK, the problem involves you not knowing how to play an organ. I'm not vouching for any of the preset menus. Maybe they rock, maybe they don't...I get a nice solid model (1969 C3 in the case of the B5) set up how I would set the organ and mic the Leslie and I have my Voce MIDI drawbars and pedal--which AcousticSamples was kind enough to implement in the B5 for me. I sent them pix of the MIDI implementation charts--and the next point release they had it in there. But, my need for a modeler is simply as a quick placeholder. Something I can use to go "what if I did something like THIS...?" ...and it needs to resemble the real deal. Not just be "a cool organ sound" because if it has a drastically different sound, it's not useful as a placeholder. I WILL say that I have one tune, that the lyric haven't worked out on--but I plan to just leave the B5, because it's a background pad part and it sounds great. It would not sound "better enough" for me to both mic'ing up the real one and replaying. Point is--even for a background thing, I would NOT have left modelers of the past--(hardware)Voce V3...NI's B4...Cx3...I'd probably not have even left the LogicX one--even though I DO think it's a cut above anything else--4-5 years ago, whenever that was...time flies. I have Acoustic Samples B5 and had considered trying the IK B3. Though I don't have the IK B3, I do however have the IK standalone Leslie. I'm already set up to use my keyboard controllers for controlling those. I know we've talked about this before, but I have a 1958 M3 for which I need to get a line tap implemented to either be able to use with the B5 or IK Leslie, or to use with one of the hardware clones like the Neo. Once I get a proper line tap done, I'm going to go one way or the other. I just have to make up my mind. Hence, why I was curious if you had tried the Neo. The samples I've heard of the Neo sound pretty good, and I DO like that it's a hardware interface with physical (and dedicated) knobs along with the fact that I don't have to mess with latency and cpu overloads in the computer. I may just have to pick up a Neo one of these days and give it a try. I still to need to get around to doing a proper line tap one of these days though... |
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Post by ragan on Mar 28, 2021 11:22:11 GMT -6
I have not. I considered getting one to marry to the Cx3 engine in the Kronos...I know some people that did that. The stock one was (IMO) always crap--even when they sold it as the stand alone Cx3 board. I was like "why can't people HEAR how fake that is up top?" I really think if you can't get a studio worthy Hammond track from either the B5 or IK, the problem involves you not knowing how to play an organ. I'm not vouching for any of the preset menus. Maybe they rock, maybe they don't...I get a nice solid model (1969 C3 in the case of the B5) set up how I would set the organ and mic the Leslie and I have my Voce MIDI drawbars and pedal--which AcousticSamples was kind enough to implement in the B5 for me. I sent them pix of the MIDI implementation charts--and the next point release they had it in there. But, my need for a modeler is simply as a quick placeholder. Something I can use to go "what if I did something like THIS...?" ...and it needs to resemble the real deal. Not just be "a cool organ sound" because if it has a drastically different sound, it's not useful as a placeholder. I WILL say that I have one tune, that the lyric haven't worked out on--but I plan to just leave the B5, because it's a background pad part and it sounds great. It would not sound "better enough" for me to both mic'ing up the real one and replaying. Point is--even for a background thing, I would NOT have left modelers of the past--(hardware)Voce V3...NI's B4...Cx3...I'd probably not have even left the LogicX one--even though I DO think it's a cut above anything else--4-5 years ago, whenever that was...time flies. I have Acoustic Samples B5 and had considered trying the IK B3. I'm already set up to use my keyboard controllers for controlling those. I know we've talked about this before, but I have a 1958 M3 for which I need to get a line tap implemented to either be able to use with the B5 or IK Leslie, or to use with one of the hardware clones like the Neo. Once I get a proper line tap done, I'm going to go one way or the other. I just have to make up my mind. Hence, why I was curious if you had tried the Neo. The samples I've heard of the Neo sound pretty good, and I DO like that it's a hardware interface with physical (and dedicated) knobs along with the fact that I don't have to mess with latency and cpu overloads in the computer. I may just have to pick up a Neo one of these days and give it a try. I still to need to get around to doing a proper line tap one of these days though... I should do that on my M111 too. Sounds like a fun little project. |
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Post by popmann on Mar 28, 2021 19:11:26 GMT -6
Well--you can hear a real Hammond played with the IK Leslie here:
But, I would tend to want a hardware unit unless the Vent is tangibly inferior. Using software plug ins on RTL is less than ideal. It's just easier--you can monitor analog or on the hardware cue mixers--analog EQ or other tubes on the way in...but, as long as you're recording the audio output of it, 6 of one...
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Post by wiz on Mar 28, 2021 19:31:48 GMT -6
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80hz
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by 80hz on Mar 28, 2021 22:02:13 GMT -6
My strongest reccomendations for quality B3 are these: - GG Audio Blue 3 - GSi VB3 II - Arturia B3 is quite good - IK Multimedia B3 is stellar - NI Vintage Organs (used to have this but sold it and miss it). I find having 1-2 different organs is great depending on the song and using sounds from one on certain parts and sounds from another in other sections. They all do the B3 thing extremely well. The IK B3 looked pretty sick in the demo I watched last night. It ain't cheap though. Although I guess none of them are. If you had to rank these, where would you rank them? I play a pretty wide variety of sounds but it's all in the rock/blues/gospel type style. Rami Jaffee, Garth Hudson, Ian McLagen are some of my touchpoint to give you an idea of what I do. And, of course, the granddaddy of them all for me which is Rod Argent (who I got to meet a few years ago, what a gentleman). I don't use foot pedals but I'm all over the drawbars and I spend a lot of time getting the sound to "grind" the way I want it to.
Before I rank them I would just say that in a way its kind of song dependent. Among these options sometimes one takes the place of another depending on the style or sound. Having said that I would say:
1. IK B3 2. GSi VB3 II (I like Mk 1 as well, but II is more life like) 3. Blue3 4. Arturia 5. NI Vintage Organs
The first 3 are all pretty incredible and sometimes its fun to turn off those leslie sims and run one of them into the UVI Rotary plugin as it sounds pretty stellar as well.
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Post by Quint on Mar 29, 2021 8:16:30 GMT -6
Well--you can hear a real Hammond played with the IK Leslie here: But, I would tend to want a hardware unit unless the Vent is tangibly inferior. Using software plug ins on RTL is less than ideal. It's just easier--you can monitor analog or on the hardware cue mixers--analog EQ or other tubes on the way in...but, as long as you're recording the audio output of it, 6 of one... I'm kicking around pulling the trigger on the Trek II. This specific model: trekii.com/products/miscellaneous-items/obl-2-sl.htmlI had been kicking around making my own, but I have too many other diy projects on the list. This specific model of the Trek II, the OBL-2-SL, has the ability to also mute the speaker on my M3. It pretty much has all of the functionality I could want and then I could run the M3 to a Neo or a software Leslie sim or whatever I want. Anyway, do you have any opinions on these Trek line output models? |
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