|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2021 10:04:17 GMT -6
Kind of a dumb question…but I don’t know if I’ve ever really used super expensive headphones…certainly not bad ones - I have some AKGs and Beyerdynamic dt770s…but I started thinking how much a great pair might make a difference in performance.
And here’s something. I’ve had this happen to me on numerous occasion in high rent studios - you’ve got headphones on you hear someone talk on the right and reflexively turn to look because it sounds like they’re right freaking there. The spacial depth is just huge. That never really happens for me in my little studio - maybe it’s a head game because I know no one else is there…but the point being, I’ve convinced myself that I’m not getting everything I can out of my head phones/cue system.
|
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Mar 2, 2021 10:22:40 GMT -6
i doubt i'm the right person to answer this as i almost exclusively work on things that are stupidly loud, but for me, isolation is far more critical than quality. for me, i'm wasting my money if i'm buying pricey cans that are only going to be blaring over a screaming 100 watt tube amp or an svt.
i mean, sure, you want your performer to hear something pleasing and good, but i'd imagine the bulk of that has to do with your sounds and cue mix rather than the cans themselves, as long as you have decent headphones. i just can't see myself shelling out more than $100 for a pair the band is probably going to break.
|
|
|
|
Post by superwack on Mar 2, 2021 10:29:42 GMT -6
Yeah, I’ve been in studios across the country and while some had amazingly powerful and great sounding cue systems I’ve never seen any of them have anything more than low to low-mid priced cans
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 2, 2021 10:37:11 GMT -6
Isolation > fidelity for me. I'd rather have in-ears than cans too since I get better isolation plus I hate that heavy-head feeling with big "expensive" cans on. You might have the best fidelity in the world but if your sources are bleeding through, you're going to hear mud.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 11:17:23 GMT -6
Hey John,
FWIW I use a pair of Beyer 770s for concert recording. I need the isolation that closed-backs provide. But I also have a pair of 1990s in-studio (for those hours that speakers will wake my bride). You do lose some isolation, but the sound of the open-backs is notably better. At times they sound very much like the speakers I have in the room. Sound is less forced and imaging is quite good. As soon as I got the Beyers I retired my pricey AKGs. I found them very harsh by comparison.
If you really need isolation, then I tend to agree about in-ear. I have some of the Shure SE425s that I use for listening to music when I fly (something I haven't done for over a year now) or for other high-noise situations. They're 2-driver buds, but you can get 3 and 4 driver models. The physical isolation means that I can still listen at safe levels and the sound is very good.
|
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Mar 2, 2021 11:30:35 GMT -6
Isolation > fidelity for me. I'd rather have in-ears than cans too since I get better isolation plus I hate that heavy-head feeling with big "expensive" cans on. You might have the best fidelity in the world but if your sources are bleeding through, you're going to hear mud. I've never heard of using in-ears in the studio. How are you doing that exactly? |
|
|
|
Post by Omicron9 on Mar 2, 2021 11:42:14 GMT -6
Good thread. For many years I used AKG K-271 closed-back and/or Sony 7506 for tracking. I still like both of those a lot, but I recently acquired a pair of the Shure 425 IEMs. I've been liking those for the additional isolation and lack of feeling something strapped to my head in long tracking sessions. The sound isn't as good as the AKG or Sony, but the extra isolation can be worth it in some tracking situations. For checking mixes and masters, I freaking love the Shure SRH 940. Unbelievable to me. I also have AKG 702s for checking mixes, but the Shures are stunning. Separation, stereo field, details, accuracy, hearing into reverb tails like never before; just beyond great in my book. They're closed-back so you could use them for tracking as well. I don't use them for tracking just to save wear and tear on them; they're not cheap but so worth the price. And comfy! Shure SRH940 - linkRegards, -09 |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 2, 2021 12:04:17 GMT -6
Isolation > fidelity for me. I'd rather have in-ears than cans too since I get better isolation plus I hate that heavy-head feeling with big "expensive" cans on. You might have the best fidelity in the world but if your sources are bleeding through, you're going to hear mud. I've never heard of using in-ears in the studio. How are you doing that exactly? Not sure what you mean. I just use my in-ears plugged into the headphone mixer like I would with any other headphone. I'm mainly a drummer, so I'm used to the isolation as well though. When I'm doing bass/guitar I just monitor through the control room monitors. If I'm recording others, I tell them to bring their favorite headphones or in-ears and we'll figure out whether their stuff or my studio headphones work best. I also keep some new earbuds around in case anyone wants in-ear isolation but don't have their own. |
|
|
|
Post by askomiko on Mar 2, 2021 12:37:12 GMT -6
I use headphones a lot. I've used one pair of HD600 for 20 years, it's my reference of what headphones should be: comfortable, durable, all parts available as spares, there's nice openness and detail in the sound. I tried most of the options that were available back then, and none felt nearly as good as the 600. Beyerdynamics are well built but the 770 treble makes ears bleed. All closed cans feel muddy and the soundstage is like the sound comes from the center of my head and I hate it. I should perhaps try some of those fancy new nice cans some day though.
Recently I did try some ridiculously expensive Stax' though. Nice and airy but no bass, even compared to the bass light HD600s. I'd like to have a tiny bit of cork sniffery snobism for my next pair of cans. The Stax with their massive mandatory amps would do that. On the other hand, thats just wasted tabletop space and money.
Also I don't use any fancy headphone amps, just whatever outputs the gear has. I did own a Lake People RS02 for a year or so but I didn't hear any improvement with it so I sold it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 14:39:35 GMT -6
Anybody remember the Koss Pro4AA headphones? Felt like somebody took a 30 pound vise and clamped it on your head. They are apparently still being made.
|
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Mar 2, 2021 14:44:51 GMT -6
I've never heard of using in-ears in the studio. How are you doing that exactly? Not sure what you mean. I just use my in-ears plugged into the headphone mixer like I would with any other headphone. I'm mainly a drummer, so I'm used to the isolation as well though. When I'm doing bass/guitar I just monitor through the control room monitors. If I'm recording others, I tell them to bring their favorite headphones or in-ears and we'll figure out whether their stuff or my studio headphones work best. I also keep some new earbuds around in case anyone wants in-ear isolation but don't have their own. I guess I was thinking of wireless in-ears and wondering how that would work in the studio setting. It sounds like yours are wired. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,947 
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Mar 2, 2021 16:29:09 GMT -6
Anybody remember the Koss Pro4AA headphones? Felt like somebody took a 30 pound vise and clamped it on your head. They are apparently still being made. Koss likes to keep their successful designs around forever. I always wondered what they would sound like if they ever put some real effort in. For years as the guy who sold them gear I would get evaluation samples of the latest version of their Electrostatics, the build quality was always disappointing and the Stax always ate them for lunch. I did buy around 100 sets of their cheapest phones for the kids school about 10 years ago, they had a bunch of iPads with cases that nobody’s else’s jack would fit in. |
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Mar 2, 2021 17:14:31 GMT -6
John, I would say the 770s are good enough to give you enough. They aren't perfect but no can is and they make music sound good (if a bit smiley faced)
Buy some good drugs ( joking!)
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Mar 2, 2021 21:43:36 GMT -6
Isn't this all moot, now that those Slate Headphones are out? Now that I can... Mix and Master in the Taj Mahal!  Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 2, 2021 21:49:43 GMT -6
Isn't this all moot, now that those Slate Headphones are out? Now that I can... Mix and Master in the Taj Mahal! Chris Funny…I was just about to mention these virtual Environments. I’d love to think I could have something that would even semi-legitimately give me another realistic perspective. Didn’t donr recently say he loved his? I’d love to have something like that as a mix “confirmer”. |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Mar 2, 2021 23:34:32 GMT -6
Yeah, still digging the Slate VSX. The only thing missing is a pair of Auratones. As a mix reference and getting mixing done quietly at home it works. BTW none of the VSX rooms are really reverberant. Good thing, too. The Archon studio is cozy. The cars sound like cars.
If I recorded in another studio with live drums and amps, I'd bring my own Shure 846 inears and shooting muffs to go over them. Just about every studio I've worked in have cheap cans. I don't blame them, expensive ones would break or walk away.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Mar 3, 2021 0:52:54 GMT -6
Do you still use the Fostex VRM's?
I almost bought a used one last year,
to mess around with.
Thanks, Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by donr on Mar 3, 2021 1:01:11 GMT -6
Do you still use the Fostex VRM's? I almost bought a used one last year, to mess around with. Thanks, Chris I still have it, it would be a decent headphone D/A for a laptop I guess without the software. The room software is flat out crude. You would not want to listen to it for any length of time, nor could you draw any conclusion about the quality of your mix. It's gonna sound crappy. |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Mar 3, 2021 1:02:25 GMT -6
Do you still use the Fostex VRM's? I almost bought a used one last year, to mess around with. Thanks, Chris I still have it, it would be a decent headphone D/A for a laptop I guess without the software. The room software is flat out crude. You would not want to listen to it for any length of time, nor could you draw any conclusion about the quality of your mix. It's gonna sound crappy. It's Focusrite, not Fostex. |
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Mar 3, 2021 7:33:54 GMT -6
Good thread. For many years I used AKG K-271 closed-back and/or Sony 7506 for tracking. I still like both of those a lot, but I recently acquired a pair of the Shure 425 IEMs. I've been liking those for the additional isolation and lack of feeling something strapped to my head in long tracking sessions. The sound isn't as good as the AKG or Sony, but the extra isolation can be worth it in some tracking situations. For checking mixes and masters, I freaking love the Shure SRH 940. Unbelievable to me. I also have AKG 702s for checking mixes, but the Shures are stunning. Separation, stereo field, details, accuracy, hearing into reverb tails like never before; just beyond great in my book. They're closed-back so you could use them for tracking as well. I don't use them for tracking just to save wear and tear on them; they're not cheap but so worth the price. And comfy! Shure SRH940 - linkRegards, -09 Thanks for mentioning these. I’ve looked into the SRH940 before and some reviews say they aren’t very durable. What’s been your experience? |
|
|
|
Post by srb on Mar 3, 2021 8:25:15 GMT -6
I've been known to use lots of different cans to check mixes and masters, from lower end to higher end.
One set that almost always gets used are the Sony 7506. I don't use them for decision making so much, but more to reference music on them.
The main reason I fall back on these a lot is because I've used them for 30 years at WNCW public radio where I have produced and hosted a blues/soul/r'n'b show. I've heard thousands upon thousands of songs through them.
They're like an old pair of shoes or a good pair of Levi's...kinda feels like 'home'.
I like the AT M50, for checking things as well. There are Focals, Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, and Shure here.
The last cans I purchased are the Audeze LCD X (got a good B stock deal). I like what I hear with them, but I'm not as familiar yet with them as I am with others. I've used them some during tracking, and to check mixes and masters. So far, so good. They haven't misinformed me yet.
So, IMO, there's a place for all kinds of headphones across the price/performance spectrum. Just like with control room monitor speakers.
|
|
|
|
Post by jpanderson80 on Mar 3, 2021 9:47:02 GMT -6
Just like any speakers, headphones are personal because our ears are all different. I'm of the opinion that what you get used to is most comfortable. Like a good pair of Levi's... exactly.
I'm on HD600's with GoddHertz's CanOpener. I highly recommend CanOpener for excellent crossfeed settings while working. It goes a long way to avoid the L/R ear separation that can be disorienting.
I also use a setting on Slick EQ M that mimics a more flat response (like Sonarworks correction) for the HD600's. It brings out the lows and gives greater clarity in the mids. They are a real joy to work on.
Sony 7506 for vocalists, when I rarely do that. I've not felt the need to look at Audeze or others.
|
|
|
|
Post by Omicron9 on Mar 3, 2021 10:52:40 GMT -6
Good thread. For many years I used AKG K-271 closed-back and/or Sony 7506 for tracking. I still like both of those a lot, but I recently acquired a pair of the Shure 425 IEMs. I've been liking those for the additional isolation and lack of feeling something strapped to my head in long tracking sessions. The sound isn't as good as the AKG or Sony, but the extra isolation can be worth it in some tracking situations. For checking mixes and masters, I freaking love the Shure SRH 940. Unbelievable to me. I also have AKG 702s for checking mixes, but the Shures are stunning. Separation, stereo field, details, accuracy, hearing into reverb tails like never before; just beyond great in my book. They're closed-back so you could use them for tracking as well. I don't use them for tracking just to save wear and tear on them; they're not cheap but so worth the price. And comfy! Shure SRH940 - linkRegards, -09 Thanks for mentioning these. I’ve looked into the SRH940 before and some reviews say they aren’t very durable. What’s been your experience? Plinker, I've had my pair for at least 5 or 6 years; no issues at all. I'd buy them again tomorrow. -09 |
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Mar 3, 2021 16:05:56 GMT -6
Not to diss what you say Onicron 9 because your opinion is as valid as mine or anyone else for that matter but my experience of the 940 is they are over bright ; on the other hand if you could swing the dollars their 1540 is a thing of beauty in the mids and highs (and comfort) let down by a bit of a bottom end bump - It's a never ending search within my price realms.
Does anyone have any Focal "Listen Pro" experience; i'm in the market for new cans after my Shure 840s couldn't be repaired again - a solid 9 years until standing on them snapped the headband right at the earpiece swivel; a 3rd repair is looking unlikely.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Mar 4, 2021 6:51:51 GMT -6
My condensed advice:
Sennheiser HD650. "Good enough to mix on." If you don't have any cans that are good enough to mix on, it's a worthy thing to add to your tracking cans. Late night, early morning, you can do work on these.
SM Pro or AKG HP6e headphone amp. 2 brands, same thing, one older, one newer, a brand change. Super powerful, can blow your head off. Great sound quality, bands give compliments. 6 channels! Inexpensive. "More Me" knob with 4 selectable alterate inputs/mixes. Super versatile. Sort of my "secret weapon" for headphones.
Any of the $100-200 headphones are probably more than adequate for general tracking purposes, no big mystery there. The two things I mentioned above are "special" or "extra" once you've got your basics covered.
|
|
