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Post by skav on Jan 30, 2021 10:45:06 GMT -6
Although it seems the mics that are not made no more gets the most love, what about these?
102, 103, 107 etc
How are they really to work with?
Thank you!
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Post by Ward on Jan 30, 2021 12:00:54 GMT -6
This might sound negative, and I apologize in advance . . .But . . .
TLM103. If harsh had a picture in the dictionary, this would be it.
TLM107. The took a great sounding little LDC in the TLM102 and tried to turn into a compact multipattern LDC. It failed to grab any real mindshare and just sounded weird. It reminded of an old phaser pedal for guitar, with all the knobs off. It focused the midrange to create kind of tonal mid-boost. And that was the sound I heard in a 107. I was really looking forward to it when it was first announced as I still love and use my TLM102s every week. Best ride cymbal mic ever IMHO, and great for hand perc, Timbales, congas and femvox!
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 30, 2021 12:32:39 GMT -6
I think the 103 is great. I do agree that it's pretty bright, but I don't find it to be offensive in the way that many cheap condensers are. It can sound absolutely wonderful on the right person. I'm a little biased here as one of my favorite singers (Imogen Heap) uses one exclusively, and her vocal recordings are always impeccable.
Here's a pretty cool MWTM video where you can hear Billie Eilish's raw vocals — 103 sounds great for her:
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Post by mulmany on Jan 30, 2021 12:51:07 GMT -6
It was always my understanding that the tlm 103 was designed for distance micing in orchestral situations, like film scoring. It was designed with very low self noise for that reason.
Hmm...just read the blurb on Neumann's site, it was designed to replace the U87! I have not recorded with one but have mixed both the 102/103. Definitely a modern cutting vocal, the 103 also feels less universal in application.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 30, 2021 12:51:50 GMT -6
IMHO for vocals ala Billie, the "speak/singing" style... The 103 is more generally suited. I'm biased against the 103 (on me), as it's like Radium voice meets Uranium 235 mic!  I don't have the "ear judgment" of Ward. But I thought the 107 sounded very nice. Also like the 102 better though. Chris |
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Post by reddirt on Jan 30, 2021 17:11:12 GMT -6
IME the 103 is very source specific; a low voice can sound fantastic and 'Pricey" but a more mid focused source can be nasal and sound like trash.
I've no 107 experience but it looks interesting.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by ragan on Jan 30, 2021 17:19:14 GMT -6
I remember being shocked the first time I was sent a track to mix that turned out to have been cut on a 103. It sounded so good on that voice that I had emailed and asked what they used. TLM103. "But...but...I'm supposed to absolutely hate that mic! Don't you read the forums? It's the worst, harshest mic on the planet, ask anyone!"
Gear forums are like anything else, there are always a few villains and heroes du jour. And the TLM103, in internet orthodoxy, is a villain.
I've never used one in person and I'm confident it wouldn't work on my bright voice. Years after that first experience with the track I was mixing for someone else, my very good buddy, after a long search, landed on one for his voice. It sounds really good on him. He's got lots of 'nicer' mics than the TLM103 but he tracks vocals with it because it fits him best.
Anyway, as usual, best to ignore the internet hubris and decide for yourself.
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Post by skav on Jan 30, 2021 17:21:15 GMT -6
Appreciate the input.
I've been suprised to see many prefer 102 over the 103. I did not even care to look at the 102 bc of its low price..
That's prejudice.
I renamed the thread to include all TLMs
I feel like the TLM series is a mine I must dig through a bit more.
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Post by ragan on Jan 30, 2021 17:24:13 GMT -6
Appreciate the input. I've been suprised to see many prefer 102 over the 103. I did not even care to look at the 102 bc of its low price.. That's prejudice. I renamed the thread to include all TLMs I feel like the TLM series is a mine I must dig through a bit more. I had a TLM102 for a few years. It's got some nice qualities. What are you looking for in a mic? |
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Post by skav on Jan 30, 2021 17:30:01 GMT -6
Appreciate the input. I've been suprised to see many prefer 102 over the 103. I did not even care to look at the 102 bc of its low price.. That's prejudice. I renamed the thread to include all TLMs I feel like the TLM series is a mine I must dig through a bit more. I had a TLM102 for a few years. It's got some nice qualities. What are you looking for in a mic? Thanks for popping by Ragan! Smooth and detailed is what I want. Well that's what I think.. Hehe. |
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Post by Ward on Jan 30, 2021 17:47:08 GMT -6
I renamed the thread to include all TLMs I feel like the TLM series is a mine I must dig through a bit more. I appreciate what you're saying here. Not all TLMs are created the same. | Good Ones | Un-Good Ones | | TLM170 | TLM193 | | TLM50 | TLM127 | | TLM67 | TLM107 | | TLM102 | TLM103 |
JMHO. YMMV Edit: TYPO!! Oops, sorry Sennheiser. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 30, 2021 17:52:14 GMT -6
I also had a TLM 102 for a little while and although it was pretty terrible on my voice, there are definitely other singers out there who sound great with one. In general, I find it has a recognizable characteristic that I personally wouldn't want on most vocals, but that's just my taste. It works fine for a lot of people. It's also a fantastic instrument mic.
For smooth and detailed, maybe give the TLM67 or 193 a look.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jan 30, 2021 18:01:33 GMT -6
I used to own a pair of TLM103’s and they worked on just one female and one male singer. I absolutely hated it on my voice, but they worked good for a medium spaced pair ambient mics in a drum room. It added a nice weight to the toms. I have heard some say they are great Tom mics. Lol. Anyway, I have found uses for them, but ended up selling them several years ago. I tried a lot of different sources on them. They didn’t work on many sources for me. I haven’t tried a TLM series neumann since that 103 experience.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 30, 2021 18:08:17 GMT -6
Hey the 103 might be great, at getting RID of some prospective clients.
Or as a survival tool in a power outage, if all other available sources of brightness aren't available. Only to unleashed, in dire emergencies.
Not sure about Vampires though 🌞...
(Cue The Trammps Disco Inferno "Burn Baby Burn")
Chris
P.S. TLM 193 is cool though.
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Post by Ward on Jan 30, 2021 18:17:29 GMT -6
P.S. TLM 193 is cool though. I'm on the fence about it. Why I put it in the un-good column. It isn't bad either . . . just we already had the TLM127, what was the point? |
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Post by chessparov on Jan 30, 2021 18:41:40 GMT -6
Hey, it's... almost a U89i in Cardiod.  Chris |
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Post by jmoose on Jan 30, 2021 19:41:45 GMT -6
I'm in the love em camp. Bought a pair of 103s many years ago when they were still fairly new. They're not going anywhere.
At the time, circa 2000 I was debating between a used 87 or pair of new 103 as my first good mics since the cost was about the same. I opted for the pair with no regrets.
Over the years I've used them on just about anything that you could think of. Vocals, overheads, room mics, strings & horns, stupid loud guitar cabs, all sorts of percussion...
In the field nobody has ever said they suck. Seems to be an interknot forum thing.
I like em best into transformer input preamps. A thick dark pre can mellow out any strident top, my old Telefunkens make a lovely pairing.
Would totally buy em again without hesitating. They've been excellent utility pieces for me.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 30, 2021 21:13:25 GMT -6
I passed on a pair of mint TLM103s for $1200....
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 30, 2021 22:16:36 GMT -6
I love my TLM 170s. First year purple badges. They don't have the mojo of vintage Neumanns but they sound great. Can take on the color of your preamp well.
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Post by Ward on Jan 31, 2021 6:03:55 GMT -6
I love my TLM 170s. First year purple badges. They don't have the mojo of vintage Neumanns but they sound great. Can take on the color of your preamp well. Totally! |
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 31, 2021 11:46:54 GMT -6
I've owned the TLM103, 102 and I currently own the 67.
The TLM103 would occasionally win shootouts on soft female vocals but that's it, it's pretty bright and I never found a lot of use for it. I guess it can sound flattering at firstjust because it's got that super bright sound that is the norm right now for vocals, but back then I'd by far rather use my CM7 or 87 and then add a little high end. The 103 often sounded scratchy compared to the others.
The 102 is pretty great for the price and is actually a mic I often recommend to friends as a nice first mic, it soundsd balanced, elegant and is very versatile. I'd love to have one again.
The 67 is interesting, it definitely has a sound, I like it for some vocals and on guitar amps, acoustics, mono room mic is also pretty cool, it's a nice alternative to the 87 as it's a little smoother and picks less detail and room which might be a good thing in average acoustic spaces. I wish you could bypass the tapey emulation thing, on some sources it's very noticeable, others not so much.
I've also often used the TLM170 at a studio and it's a great do it all mic, it doesn't have that cut that an 87 can have on vocals which is probably why it's not so popular but it's just as good and probably more versatile.
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Post by skav on Jan 31, 2021 11:59:01 GMT -6
The little 102 gets alot of praise!
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 31, 2021 12:11:47 GMT -6
The little 102 gets alot of praise! Right before Covid I was going to pick one up because I travel quite a bit ( used to ) and it's extremely small, sounds great on most things. It seemed like the perfect travel demo mic ( that's selling it a bit short, I think it's just a good all purpose condenser). There's a Shootout somewhere where they go through every modern Neumann mic and a couple vintage ones on vocals and the TLM102 really holds its own against mics costing 20X times more. Oh I forgot I've used the TLM49 and did not like it at all, maybe it had a bad capsule who knows but yikes...Plus it sounded nothing like an M49. Or is it supposed to be a cheaper M149 then? I don't know. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 31, 2021 12:20:40 GMT -6
When I first saw this shoot out the TLM 102 really surprised me.
I also think the TLM67 in this video is surprisingly good on both vocals featured here and even works well next to it’s more expensive tube siblings. I owned the TLM67 circuit for a while before grabbing the MK67 and modding it with the BV12. The TLM67 was really nice. A little less low end than the MkU67, but solid. I did a few classical studio vocals where it was requested over the U87ai and FleA 49. I’d actually like to just get one to have around at some point.
I owned the TLM 170 for a while. It wasn’t my thing on my vocals, though I wish I had kept it for Emily’s sometimes, particularly the classical pieces. Playing around with it for the 6 months or so I owned it gave me the impression it would sound great on woodwinds and reeds and anything on the brighter side. Never had a chance to try it though.
The TLM103 is really the Voice Over microphone. It excels at that. I know a few VO artists I work with that use them as their main mic. I’ve also heard it sound really good for a bright female vocal, ala Billie Eilish. I’ve heard a pair used as room mics in a classical setting capturing a choir and organ. That sounded decent enough. I wasn’t a fan of it on a few different vocals I used it on. We had it up next to the U87ai and BLUE Kiwi. Kiwi won on a male rock vocal and female jazz vocal. It was a toss up between the Kiwi and U87ai on my vocal.
I’ve been kind of curious about the TLM49 myself, but it’s a little more than I’d want to spend on a cardioid only mic.
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Post by skav on Jan 31, 2021 12:22:34 GMT -6
The little 102 gets alot of praise! Right before Covid I was going to pick one up because I travel quite a bit ( used to ) and it's extremely small, sounds great on most things. It seemed like the perfect travel demo mic ( that's selling it a bit short, I think it's just a good all purpose condenser). There's a Shootout somewhere where they go through every modern Neumann mic and a couple vintage ones on vocals and the TLM102 really holds its own against mics costing 20X times more. Oh I forgot I've used the TLM49 and did not like it at all, maybe it had a bad capsule who knows but yikes...Plus it sounded nothing like an M49. Or is it supposed to be a cheaper M149 then? I don't know. The mic sounds good. The TLM 102 is the only one in the series I can't remember witnessing any haters of. |
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