Covid vsccine

I get it.  Folks don't want to believe it, and it's handy to use the idea of other's bias to dismiss it as conspiracy while ignoring that one's own bias is the reason they dismiss the obvious.  People don't want to see their savior, the one who has promised to deliver them from covid, as the one who's the prime impetus for the whole ordeal.  

But as we've seen time and time again, most people have a strange co-dependency with government and have a hard time seeing that they're the cause of most of their problems while simultaneously claiming to be the solution to the problems they created.

Lucky for me, all of the things I posited early on in this thread have come to pass as factual.

Here’s virtually the same info from another source. Honest question here, I’d be interested to know if you think this info is invalid too?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/covid-19-coronavirus-lab-leak-virology-origins-pandemic-11633462827

WJS is a reasonably center site politically speaking.  I can't read the article because I don't have subscription, but based on the title and the tease, it sounds like they don't come to any hard conclusions.

NYPost is leans pretty conservative..

FWIW, I do check out CNN and the Guardian with the realization that they lean left.  It's admittedly hard to determine where to get information from, but I am wary of extremes from both sides.  I always check out Fox too, but mostly to see what they're selling.  Whenever they get their hands caught in the cookie jar, they end up having to admit that "it's just entertainment."  Where's the credibility in that?  A lot of the old majors like ABC and NBC also lean slightly left.  To get a balance, I try and read a range of news links from google and allsides. They aren't news organizations, they are just pointers.  But the bottom line for me: if it's not covered by the majority of center, it hasn't been researched or vetted adequately.

So what's the point? If it was a leak, would that make Fauci an evil scientist? Healthy skepticism is one thing, but conspiracy theorists have way too big a stage in the world right now.

I think the point would be that if it were a lab leak, then you would make sure that the circumstances that allowed it to take place would never happen again. Particularly if they weren't allowed to do certain things here so they went and did those things in Wuhan instead. If our government didn't allow the NIH, etc.. to do gain of function research in the US, then they shouldn't be allowed to fund or participate in said research in another country. As we've seen, what happens on the other side of the world comes knocking on your own door in no time.

All good.. There are dangers, but ignoring the science can be equally devastating.  No doubt the calculus of risk vs benefit is quite complex - and certainly not as simple as do or don't.  Same applies to Fauci's culpability.  I've bought stocks of companies whose objectives and actions turned out to be antithetical to my ethics, or worse, just plain bad actors.  Did that make me culpable?

I hope we can agree that we live in a world with very few statesmen, and too many politicians who take zero responsibility for their mistakes, no matter the size.  The problem is that they have to in order to survive. We live with a culture that defenestrates those who are willing to take responsibility.

The burning desire to demonize Fauci is misplaced. This is nothing more than shooting the messenger when we don’t like the difficult message.

The guy literally circumvented US law prohibiting gain-of-function work using a go-between company to fund the work at a military-backed institute in a foreign country that has questionable safety records with previous SARS leaks as well as questionable status as friend/foe.  He then employed the very person who ran the go-between company to run a smear campaign against scientists who found genetic fingerprints proving human design, and then employed that same person to organize friendly scientists to write papers flooding the community with "natural source" propaganda.  That's called a coverup.  To feel the need to cover something up implies guilt.  It's all provable in FOIA-obtained emails and leaked documents.  

He personally directed illegal and dangerous work to be done through hidden channels using US taxpayer money in a foreign country and then when it leaked, he tried to hide the true source by using his position to sway the scientific community. 

If that's "misplaced" then I'm the Pope. 

When someone kills someone on purpose, we call it murder.  When someone kills someone accidentally, we call that manslaughter, and it's still a crime.  I don't care that Fauci's ego projects might have had a morally acceptable reason to attempt them, (even DARPA turned him down for funding citing that it was too risky and it violated the US moratorium on gain-of-function work) it's the fact that he pressed on and did this surreptitiously that bothers me.   

He should be held accountable for this.  No man is above the law.

 

The reality is that the origins of the virus aren't conclusively known. 

And extending extreme benefit of the doubt to agents and entities who have proven themselves untrustworthy over and over again (like Project Veritas) is the precise opposite of being "skeptical".  

Any theory of something important like this deserves its day in court, but it should have to play by the big boy rules - well sourced, corroborated evidence gathered and presented by people with relevant expertise and track records of credibility.  

Here are some fact checks on the Fauci/gain-of-function obsession du jour:

www.politifact.com/article/2021/may/17/debating-origins-covid-19-virus-what-we-know-what-/

www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/

Here is an overview of Project Veritas along with a few of the times they've been caught lying or misleading: 

mediabiasfactcheck.com/project-veritas/

There's dozens of papers proposing human-design on the furin sites of the spike proteins.  Nature doesn't design in certain ways, only humans do.  Many of these papers have been stalled due to the "consensus" of natural source that Fauci had put into place and the suppression of skeptical theories that happens in the science community when fear for one's grants stemming from being an outlier come into play.

And you don't think CNN or FOX haven't issued retractions for their inaccuracies thousands of times over the years?  Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're not.  Just because you have a tilt that leans away from PV's general political stance doesn't mean it's incorrect *this* time, no more than "fact check" sites are correct because an article's author scoured the internet for corroborative sources for a popular (consensus) theory.

And I'll agree that this needs it's day in court.  Some senators are already trying, but it's being labeled as an anti-science witch-hunt by the usual suspects and the safe bet is that it'll go nowhere because the status-quo citizen doesn't want to know that their government is at fault because an egomaniacal politician was left unchecked to wreck the world.