Covid vsccine

Thanks for that link. I'll take a look.

That statement has been taken out of context and used by the right to create a false narrative. My recollection of the context of that statement was that Trump was making some pretty wild suggestions and was constantly publicly undermining the advice of the experts in his own administration, and Biden was criticizing Trump's management and messaging.

Please remember that Trump was the President for more than half of the time we've endured the pandemic. We know how the left would respond to expert guidance under Trump because we lived it. The government was offering guidance for ten months under Trump and you didn't see Pelosi and Schumer calling Fauci a fascist and encouraging liberals to revolt.

Whatever you think might be the situation had Trump won, this is the situation we're facing now. You're seeing articles about the left/right divide because a significant part of the right is going out of its way to undermine every effort to fight the pandemic. If the right is going to behave this way journalists are going to cover it.

The irony would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic; many of the states where leadership has been against every preventative measure are struggling to keep up and are currently asking for federal help.

Haha...my post was censored!!! Fair enough...those are the rules.

Seems there are an awful lot of liberals, moderates and libertarians that don’t agree with XYZ and then get labeled as conservative, alt right, etc etc.

Haha!  I'd go back and replace the censored words with nicknames but I don't want to push the boundaries.

Haha no worries man, I don't want to get us both in trouble here 😁

How about the FULL quote, which was in response to the last guy pressuring for a vaccine before election day in the hopes that it would bolster his bid for reelection after first undermining the CDC and proactively misleading the public for several months:

“Look at what’s happened. An enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. Enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say the following protocol will have a giant impact on covid. All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie. When we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who’s going to take the shot? Who’s going to take the shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me up? They now say it’s okay. I’m not being facetious.”

You forgot the end of the quote "c'mon man!"  😂.  Just messing with with ya...seriously though it was one of many quotes by many dems(including the VP candidate at the time).  There's no context for the sum of those quotes that provided confidence in the(at the time) coming vaccines.  They were getting out ahead of the possibility of a vaccine coming out before the election which would have been a huge win for 45.  It was politically motivated and it wasn't helpful.  

Respectfully, I think some of you guys are a little too caught up in the left vs right thing.  This goes way beyond that and as it has been pointed out by others, the unvaccinated aren't all right wingers.

You're kind of conflating several different things, no?  McCullough didn't say, in that video, that people shouldn't get vaccinated.  He said that if you've already had covid there is no good medical rationale for getting the vaccine.  That's an opinion shared by lots of Dr's.  The push for everyone (including formerly sick people) to get vaccinated is a public health Policy decision.  Its simply easier to make a blanket statement like "everyone should get the vax" then to deal with the intricacies of sorting between the sick, formerly sick, presumed sick, healthy-never-been-sick etc etc.  We can (and should) debate whether those policy decisions were/are good or not, but the medical rationale for it seems shaky at best, imo.  

And even though the medical community is pushing people to get vaccinated, that should not be a substitute for treatment, it should be an adjunct to it, which was one of McCullough's other points.  

In regards to the link you provided, its still unclear whether "reinfections" have really happened (or to what degree they happen) or whether the "reinfections" were people not fully healed who relapsed into a 2nd phase of symptoms.  With the way the virus has thus far mutated, both are certainly plausible and likely.  

Home slice said a lot more than people who had been recovered don't need to be vaccinated. He also said no one under 50 needed to be vaccinated and that the vaccines have killed 50,000 people and kept pushing HCQ after it was definitively shown to not to a daggum thing. He's a hack.

Matt beat me to the punch regarding Dr McCullough's ideas.  I'll repeat that he actually does say that people under 50 don't need to be vaccinated.

I think we can only judge the merits of past decisions in the context in which they were made.  Doctors are still learning about how to treat this disease...how were they supposed to make treatment recommendations before effective treatment was understood?

From a public policy perspective, simple messaging is key and I think this is where various authorities could have done much better.  

Either way, I think it's ok for people to be wrong if they're operating in good faith.  If they are truly interested in the best outcomes they will correct their mistakes and continue working towards solutions.  Again, my issue is with the prominent people who are encouraging the exact opposite of the current guidance and doing so in bad faith...as if somehow it's un American and anti-freedom to implement health and safety regulations during a pandemic?  Stop lights and seat belts are ok...decades of mandated vaccinations are ok...but masks mandates are threatening our freedom?  

Literally no one is anti-therapeutic. People are throwing the kitchen sink to find treatment regimes. Most drugs that make it to the clinical trial phase don't work, something like 95% don't. And every single one of those started with some promising or plausible mechanism or in vitro activity. Few respiratory viruses have effective therapeutics. We shouldn't expect anything different with covid. If you take this mindset instead of being routinely disappointed you'll wind up pleasantly surprised when something works. Like dexamethasone does.

By way of example, ivermectin has test tube antiviral properties against many viruses. None before has ever translated to clinical success (0 for 20). Again, we shouldn't expect anything different with covid. (Also - the best study in favor of ivermectin was Elgazzar in Egypt, retracted for plagiarism and fraud).

On the other hand there is *definitely* a significant group of people who are anti-vaccines in general, and another group that has some overlap which are anti-covid-vaccines in particular. Wanting to vaccinate everyone is not insane. I want everyone to be vaccinated for MMR, polio, etc. Vaccines collectively are probably the single greatest achievement in medicine.