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Post by ehrenebbage on Jul 14, 2021 14:56:55 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Jul 14, 2021 15:15:32 GMT -6
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Post by seawell on Jul 14, 2021 19:17:32 GMT -6
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jul 17, 2021 0:46:17 GMT -6
I think that's what's happening here. The lying liars will text their lies to their followers, and the admin will tell the world they're lying. There's honestly not REALLY a hive of hornets here. This is just another rightwing red meat straw man meant to outrage and frighten people into donating to campaigns. Were you actually foaming at the mouth posting this? So you're 100% correct in your beliefs and opinions and anyone who disagrees with that is a liar? Dude, there's a lot more truth in the middle and your unfounded lambast of the "rightwing" is bullshit. There is a shitload of fact on Fox News. Every day. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2021 7:27:04 GMT -6
I still believe in free speech. Let the chips fall wherever they may.... btw - as an aside, I think there was a different politico article that kicked this hive of hornets.... Politics and the federal government has no business in personal medical decisions IMO. Except you forgot the first rule of : everything money talks BS walks. The government on average covers 60-70 percent of the cost of US healthcare, higher because of the promise that nobody was going to have to pay for shots, treatment, or care. If you write the check, your in charge. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2021 7:45:54 GMT -6
The Best reason to wear a mask get the shot in the US?
ITS JULY!
What that means is that on July 1 at every major teaching hospital your first year resident is a first day resident. Just think most of you and the guy sticking the tube down your throat could both be popping your intubation cherry, how sweet!
Do you really want the guy who is deciding what to do being the guy who gets lost looking for the restroom?
look over the comulitive 2 years of being an inpatient the scariest moment for me in a hospital was on a July 5th having 2 guys who were on their 5th day digging around in my neck to place an arterial line, aināt enough Fentanyl in the world for that one.
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 17, 2021 8:49:39 GMT -6
I think that's what's happening here. The lying liars will text their lies to their followers, and the admin will tell the world they're lying. There's honestly not REALLY a hive of hornets here. This is just another rightwing red meat straw man meant to outrage and frighten people into donating to campaigns. Were you actually foaming at the mouth posting this? So you're 100% correct in your beliefs and opinions and anyone who disagrees with that is a liar? Dude, there's a lot more truth in the middle and your unfounded lambast of the "rightwing" is bullshit. There is a shitload of fact on Fox News. Every day. The facts aren't the issue. The lies are. And in this case, the topic at hand is rightwing liars (Charlie Kirk, TPUSA, Rep Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert, Josh Hawley, to name a few specified in the linked articles) lying demonstrably via tweet, and what the admin intends to do about it. Fox actually has nothing to do with any of this, save for the fact that an article they published was linked in this thread. You are overreacting. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 9:31:47 GMT -6
Are there no liars on the flip side of the political narrative? Who will delete their texts and clean up their lies? (asking for a friend....).  |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 17, 2021 9:35:25 GMT -6
Are there no liars on the flip side of the political narrative? Who will delete their texts and clean up their lies? (asking for a friend....). Of course there are, and I would expect they will be called out summarily. But you brought up the admin's plan to counteract the COVID-themed lies tweeted by rightwing disinformation peddlers, and so that's the subject we've arrived at. I'm happy to criticize lies from any liar, if you'd like to pivot to a more comfortable topic  |
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 10:40:36 GMT -6
What's going to happen when the admin changes to the flip side? It does happen ya know. . Are you going to rely on the government - the US Government - to be the bearer of "truth" and not lies? LOL. You gotta be kidding. Plus add in social media giants, and big Pharma. Yeah, truth will be raining down on us..... LOLOLOLOL Free speech (lies included) is the bedrock of our freedom. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 17, 2021 10:49:13 GMT -6
So now the Biden administration is telling FB what to ācensorāā¦.interesting but totally predictable turn of events. If this isnāt a slippery slope I donāt know what is.
There is a good faith argument, that many people on this thread have brought up, about whether or not a company like F, YT, IG etc should ācensorā and what ācensorshipā means when applied to a Corp and not the govā¦but, now weāre a few miles further down the rabbit hole. If the gov is telling FB what to take down then it does become flat out government censorship.
Idk about you all but I rather swim through a pile of bullshit to find the truth then be fed a curated narrative, and told what I can cannot say/listen to/believe etc, especially when the current narrative often has just as much BS.
Trump used to bully the media and people were up in arms about it, and rightly so, where is the outrage now? Nowhere, because it fits most peopleās ideologies/egos/identities.
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Post by ehrenebbage on Jul 17, 2021 11:44:56 GMT -6
We're in the midst of a global emergency and there is a massive problem with disinformation, intentional or otherwise. Seems appropriate for the world's governments to speak to the problem and the possible solutions.
Also, it's almost as though we've already forgotten about the previous administration's efforts to limit free press and the ban of an entire social media platform.
Currently there is a massive effort to censor teachers re: American history, and it's being written into law as we speak.
I'd say the flip side has been happening for a while now.
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 17, 2021 11:56:31 GMT -6
What's going to happen when the admin changes to the flip side? It does happen ya know. . Are you going to rely on the government - the US Government - to be the bearer of "truth" and not lies? LOL. You gotta be kidding. Plus add in social media giants, and big Pharma. Yeah, truth will be raining down on us..... LOLOLOLOL Free speech (lies included) is the bedrock of our freedom. No ones speech is being restricted. The disinformation will flow as it has been, and the opposing side will make the case against it. This can and should happen regardless of the party in executive power. Regular, democratic (small d) discourse. Not sure how much more āfree speechā it gets than that. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 12:05:11 GMT -6
What's going to happen when the admin changes to the flip side? It does happen ya know. . Are you going to rely on the government - the US Government - to be the bearer of "truth" and not lies? LOL. You gotta be kidding. Plus add in social media giants, and big Pharma. Yeah, truth will be raining down on us..... LOLOLOLOL Free speech (lies included) is the bedrock of our freedom. No ones speech is being restricted. The disinformation will flow as it has been, and the opposing side will make the case against it. This can and should happen regardless of the party in executive power. Regular, democratic (small d) discourse. Not sure how much more āfree speechā it gets than that. That is/was not my understanding of what is/will happen. |
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Post by seawell on Jul 17, 2021 12:47:39 GMT -6
Currently there is a massive effort to censor teachers re: American history, and it's being written into law as we speak. Are you talking about school districts that are banning critical race theory? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 17, 2021 14:43:02 GMT -6
What's going to happen when the admin changes to the flip side? It does happen ya know. . Are you going to rely on the government - the US Government - to be the bearer of "truth" and not lies? LOL. You gotta be kidding. Plus add in social media giants, and big Pharma. Yeah, truth will be raining down on us..... LOLOLOLOL Free speech (lies included) is the bedrock of our freedom. No ones speech is being restricted. The disinformation will flow as it has been, and the opposing side will make the case against it. This can and should happen regardless of the party in executive power. Regular, democratic (small d) discourse. Not sure how much more āfree speechā it gets than that.Ā It seemed like, from the articles I read, that the White House is telling FB and other socials exactly what posts they want removed. So it doesnāt really seem like a case of calling people out, or making a case against ādisinformationā etc. Iād be all for that, by all means letās call out bad ideas, wrong information and bad actors. This seems like a step beyond that. Idk, maybe Iām wrongā¦could be the media making a headline out of something benign but it certainly doesnāt seem that way. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 17, 2021 14:50:46 GMT -6
We're in the midst of a global emergency and there is a massive problem with disinformation, intentional or otherwise. Seems appropriate for the world's governments to speak to the problem and the possible solutions. Also, it's almost as though we've already forgotten about the previous administration's efforts to limit free press and the ban of an entire social media platform. Currently there is a massive effort to censor teachers re: American history, and it's being written into law as we speak. I'd say the flip side has been happening for a while now. Yes, Part of my point is how quickly people have forgotten what the last administration had done. To your other points, I donāt think the current state of this emergency warrants the restriction on speech that is being called for, whether protected by the 1st amendment or not. Itās easy to support the suppressing the freedoms for all sorts of emergencies, but itās a historically bad ideaā¦how many dictators came to power through the same means? And as for your comment on the censorship of school teachersā¦Iām trying really hard not to break the no politics rule, in a thread thatās been skating the border since the beginning, but letās just say that itās much more nuanced and complicated than that. And I donāt think itās a fair assessment to say that teachers are being censored for teaching American History. If you want to talk more about that Iām happy to over PM, but letās maybe save that rabbit hole for a more appropriate place. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 14:56:13 GMT -6
I don't know if this is political or not - I suppose it is, but as T-bone mentioned - it's nuanced - and its in reference to my personal health decisions which is the essence of this thread so.....
When do we actually WANT the federal gov getting involved in what they deem "truth"? Especially if it pertains to our personal health decisions.
Recent history shows myriads of examples of politicians lying thru their teeth to get their agenda into place. Calling truth lies, and lies truth. WMD's in Iraq is one example. The NSA not spying on US citizens is another. Both flagrant lies to push forward political agendas.
Are we expecting any different now? I personally don't need that kind of help with my health decisions.
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 15:11:46 GMT -6
The facts aren't the issue. The lies are. And in this case, the topic at hand is rightwing liars (Charlie Kirk, TPUSA, Rep Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert, Josh Hawley, to name a few specified in the linked articles) lying demonstrably via tweet, and what the admin intends to do about it. Fox actually has nothing to do with any of this, save for the fact that an article they published was linked in this thread. You are overreacting. Agreed. And who is going to parse between the facts and the lies? Who is the judge? The administration? Facebook exec's? Facebook minimum (+) wage employees? Sure, nuke the "rightwing" liars in favor of the "leftwing liars"? Who decides. When you take free speech and put constraints on it, you step out onto a very slippery slope that's difficult to recover from. What about legit, practicing doctors with no political agendas who treat Covid patients every day who have a differing opinion to the admin's "vaccines at all cost" narrative? Do we censor those doctors as well? Where is the line drawn, and who judges what is disinformation and what isn't. It's impossible. Let it all flow....it's how our founding fathers set things up, and it's worked fairly well (not perfect by any means) over the last couple hundred years. |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Jul 17, 2021 15:57:26 GMT -6
The facts aren't the issue. The lies are. And in this case, the topic at hand is rightwing liars (Charlie Kirk, TPUSA, Rep Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert, Josh Hawley, to name a few specified in the linked articles) lying demonstrably via tweet, and what the admin intends to do about it. Fox actually has nothing to do with any of this, save for the fact that an article they published was linked in this thread. You are overreacting. Let it all flow....it's how our founding fathers set things up, and it's worked fairly well (not perfect by any means) over the last couple hundred years. There are many, many, many examples of the government controlling information, speech, etc., etc. To whatever degree it's happening now, it's nothing new. |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Jul 17, 2021 16:00:30 GMT -6
Currently there is a massive effort to censor teachers re: American history, and it's being written into law as we speak. Are you talking about school districts that are banning critical race theory? Yes. |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Jul 17, 2021 16:18:03 GMT -6
We're in the midst of a global emergency and there is a massive problem with disinformation, intentional or otherwise. Seems appropriate for the world's governments to speak to the problem and the possible solutions. Also, it's almost as though we've already forgotten about the previous administration's efforts to limit free press and the ban of an entire social media platform. Currently there is a massive effort to censor teachers re: American history, and it's being written into law as we speak. I'd say the flip side has been happening for a while now. Yes, Part of my point is how quickly people have forgotten what the last administration had done. To your other points, I donāt think the current state of this emergency warrants the restriction on speech that is being called for, whether protected by the 1st amendment or not. Itās easy to support the suppressing the freedoms for all sorts of emergencies, but itās a historically bad ideaā¦how many dictators came to power through the same means? And as for your comment on the censorship of school teachersā¦Iām trying really hard not to break the no politics rule, in a thread thatās been skating the border since the beginning, but letās just say that itās much more nuanced and complicated than that. And I donāt think itās a fair assessment to say that teachers are being censored for teaching American History. If you want to talk more about that Iām happy to over PM, but letās maybe save that rabbit hole for a more appropriate place. This is not meant to be a rhetorical question...genuinely interested to know your opinion as a healthcare professional. How do you feel about the many restrictions already in place which are intended to establish standards of care and prevent mislabeling, false advertising, etc.? |
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 16:28:27 GMT -6
Let it all flow....it's how our founding fathers set things up, and it's worked fairly well (not perfect by any means) over the last couple hundred years. There are many, many, many examples of the government controlling information, speech, etc., etc. To whatever degree it's happening now, it's nothing new. Agreed. Very much so. Should we sign up for MORE of it? |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Jul 17, 2021 16:47:51 GMT -6
There are many, many, many examples of the government controlling information, speech, etc., etc. To whatever degree it's happening now, it's nothing new. Agreed. Very much so. Should we sign up for MORE of it? I guess it depends. More McCarthy? No. But is this like McCarthy or is it more like FCC regulations? I think we're in a period where the line between the two is blurry. There's some of both happening in different segments of society. If this is closer to FCC regulations, which I believe it is, our society will spend some time sorting itself out and come to some sort of balance as we have every time a new communication technology has been introduced. Now that we understand how easily social media can be weaponized, we have to figure out how to balance individual freedoms with the public interest. It's going to take a minute. And, again, let's keep in mind that those who cry most loudly about censorship are doing great business as a result. It's nowhere near the McCarthy era where folks were run out of business for speaking their mind. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 17, 2021 17:00:14 GMT -6
Agreed. Very much so. Should we sign up for MORE of it? I guess it depends. More McCarthy? No. But is this like McCarthy or is it more like FCC regulations? I think we're in a period where the line between the two is blurry. There's some of both happening in different segments of society. If this is closer to FCC regulations, which I believe it is, our society will spend some time sorting itself out and come to some sort of balance as we have every time a new communication technology has been introduced. Now that we understand how easily social media can be weaponized, we have to figure out how to balance individual freedoms with the public interest. It's going to take a minute. And, again, let's keep in mind that those who cry most loudly about censorship are doing great business as a result. It's nowhere near the McCarthy era where folks were run out of business for speaking their mind. Depends on what? And from whose perspective? Where are you going to draw that fine line Ehren?? . Plus, it's not just social media. It's SMS / Texts too. That involves HUGE companies like AT&T and Verizon, etc.. This is just not a good path to go down. |
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