Covid vsccine

jcoutu1 right, the VAERS information isn't rigorous by any means. It's voluntary and uncontrolled/unverified. So on the one hand you have the potential for under-ascertainment because people won't bother or doctors don't do what the FDA says they have to (how many docs have been prosecuted for not reporting? my guess is few). On the other hand you have corrupting data because you can submit false reports, and by the nature of it the results will probably skew to the more severe. And people looking at it will always be tempted by post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy - after this therefore because of this.

svart this is contrary to what we've observed - vaccine programs have been shut down both in the past and during this event based on reporting from VAERS.

Part of the problem with facts is that many people so desperately are looking to facts to validate beliefs, rather than facts to inform beliefs. It's a general principle that scientists find the thing they're looking for in studies. It's a guarantee that people will find what compels them to continue to read on social media and the internet in a never-ending confirmation bias feedback loop.

Here's a great read if you want to destroy your faith in everything.
www.lesswrong.com/posts/bXuAXCbzw9hsJSuEN/the-control-group-is-out-of-control

I get that the 4,863 deaths reported aren't statistically speaking a significant number compared to the millions of people that have been vaccinated but it is a staggering number when compared to reports from other vaccines. We'll see if the currently accepted "there's no evidence that the vaccine has caused any of these deaths" ages as well as "there is no evidence that the virus originated in a lab." We'll also see if the currently accepted cases & death numbers stand over time. As stated in other posts here, some of those numbers are being adjusted retroactively now. This whole thing is unraveling by the day. I mean geez...HCQ and Ivermectin are getting good press this week, who would've thought that? Who knows where it will all land but I find it hard to dig too much into the official numbers when so much of the story around this keeps turning out to be complete 💩.

It's still high. 

Undoubtably.  By many medical professionals opinions, the speculation is that the C19 VAERS reports are only the tip of the iceberg of what's actually going on.  I have no idea, but it makes common sense to me.  I know 2 people who got shingles right after their vaccines and I don't think either were reported to VAERS.

Another interesting hearsay that I read was that the gov had said that they know there were none of the supposed animal vectors (bats, pangolins, etc) present at the Wuhan wet market for months before/after the initial covid outbreak.

Wait...what's "high"?  Numerically, it's low.  Like, way low.  If you just took any random group of ~150 million Americans and looked at how many of them had died in a given few-month period...it should be a way higher.  

What is it that's "high"?  

Is there some kind of HTML number translation error going on with the way our posts are being displayed?  I can't make this make sense.  If anything, if you've got a conspiratorial bent with respect to reported deaths, you should be going, "this is so low it can't be real".  

I can't make sense of what's going on with respect to numbers and ideological framing.  

I'm totally fine, I had a bit of tingling for 2-3 days. It was really nothing, other than the fact that it's listed as a severe side effect and to seek medical attention. Then I try to get checked out and no medical professionals had heard of it or had any advice other than to call 911 if I thought it was an emergency. It was more frustrating than anything.

Thanks for the thoughts though.

Wait but you understand that if typically you only report deaths within 8 days of vaccination and now we're reporting them indefinitely (so any death that happens after vaccination gets reported, even if the guy drives off a cliff 6 months later), means that we're comparing...very, very different things, right?  

I'm not trying to persuade you that vaccines are safe, I'm trying to say that, if anything, the low number of deaths post vaccine is odd.  Pointing out that 5,000/150,000,000 people have died is weird precisely because it should be a lot higher, just looking at death in the population in general, for any reason at all.  Because there is no time limit with respect to when someone was vaccinated.  If you require that the death be within a few days of getting the shot, well, yeah, hardly anyone is going to meet that criteria.  

I'm saying "ideological" not as a pejorative, but just as a descriptive thing because the argument isn't numerical.  Lots or most of the arguments here are ideological.  "I think they're fudging the numbers" or "well we can't trust them to accurately report" or "they made XYZ argument before hand and now I don't believe that to be true so the current XYZ argument must also not be true"...etc.  Nothing invalid about that stuff in the human sense, but it's all philosophical/ideological, not about the actual numbers themselves.  If you're using the numbers as they exist today, it's suspicious how few people have died.  And again, nothing wrong with making an ideological argument, I just think we need to be deliberate and clear-eyed about it.  

The quiet parts getting said out loud:

www.theepochtimes.com/an-orchestrated-hoax_3846921.html


And something I've said from the very beginning:

summit.news/2021/03/11/stanford-medical-professor-lockdowns-worst-public-health-mistake-in-last-100-years/

I'm sorry, but the Epoch Times is not even close to an objective source of info.

Couple things. I keep saying it but it’s 8 days, not weeks (for the flu vaccine we were comparing to). Doesn’t really matter but we may as well get it right.


The “guy driving off a cliff” thing wasn’t trying to discredit anything. I’m just pointing out that they’re required to report any death after someone is vaccinated, whether there’s any suspicion of a link to the vaccine or not. So, died of a rare blood clot? Reported to VAERS. Hit by a bus? Reported to VAERS. It’s not that anyone is making an effort to report crazy stuff with no link to the vaccine, it’s that they have to because of the emergency use authorization.


And with the ‘suspending’ thing, we’ve been over this already but it’s worth repeating: those suspensions were after there were deaths actually linked to the vaccine. That is an entirely different thing. The deaths you’re talking about from the VAERS database haven’t been linked to the vaccine (yet).  They’re just required to keep that record so that they can try to find any links.


As for the lab leak thing, there’s either a mix-up with something someone else said or you’re assuming that since I come down one way on vaccine clinical trials and whatnot, I must also have XYZ other views too. I haven’t said a word about the lab leak thing and haven’t ever had any kind of strong position on it (still don’t).