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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 17:33:32 GMT -6
There is an awful lot of over-the-top hyperbole being thrown around as gospel truth. Haha!! Sounds like the internet to me.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 30, 2020 20:25:03 GMT -6
Interesting most felt like me about the overuse of Black Box, his clipping plugins & clipping gain staging. Also I didn’t hear him mention the “ Brauerizing “ ( 4 way color parallel bussing )
Surprised he couldn’t explain what he was doing w/ certain plugins. Every time he A/B’s his or the B is way louder.
Seems to MB a “ mix “ is having Fernando do all editing, stripping, grouping, initial gain staging, balancing, filtering then routing. Then mapping to to the SSL ch faders at unity & inserts on the subgroups where MB can ride the faders & “ mix “ adding Ch eq & comp or inserts to already well balanced tracks.
Except but now he is an Avid mix control & hitting the channel harder in PT does nothing like it would on his SSL w Analog gear no matter how many BX SSL9K he stacked on the mix.
His mix mojo is quite different w/ the HW & SSL vs ITB which may or may not have to do with the quality of what he is being sent & how & where it was recorded.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 30, 2020 20:25:04 GMT -6
As always these kind of discussions get out of control. To my ears most of the newer plugins are lightyears ahead of what we had 10 to 15 years ago.
Using the SPL Passq in Mixing on my 2 Bus sounds big. Some fellas on GS would have bought this thing for hundreds of dollars 5 years ago. Bought it yesterday for 19.99 and don’t regret it at all.
What we do is complaining on a high level.
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2020 21:21:55 GMT -6
What we do is complaining on a high level. Audio Engineering 101 Rule 1 : Be able to complain at a high level. Especially on the internet or in front of clients. Show them who is boss. Rule 2 : You ARE always right. Rule 3 : etc., etc.. We're just following the time tested, audio engineering rules here.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 30, 2020 21:35:12 GMT -6
What we do is complaining on a high level. Audio Engineering 101 Rule 1 : Be able to complain at a high level. Especially on the internet or in front of clients. Show them who is boss. Rule 2 : You ARE always right. Rule 3 : etc., etc.. We're just following the time tested, audio engineering rules here. I thought that CLA Interview was a real low point because he already proofed that his mixes sound exactly the same done all ITB. His answers depend a lot on who asks. We call this interviewer bias. The best of it all was the 15 Minutes recall lie muhaaaa 😂😂😂
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2020 22:44:25 GMT -6
The CLA 76, Black Rooster FET, and Slate 76 are horrible. They basically don’t work. The UAD 1176 also craps out on certain drums and voices. The Waves and UAD DBX 160 are also horrible. Most of the itb mixes in the last 15 years don’t have any real dynamic control until a limiter on a bus or the master squashes down the peaks. What’s there is often random, breathy, or pumping rather than attempting to sound natural. That’s pretty much the sound of a ton of modern music and why often the only depth in these mixes are the kick and snare detached from the kit maybe even in front the singer. Some modern analog modeled plugins can pretty much can hit 100% usage of a core on the latest cpus. There are components that require a ton of modeling and many programmers and companies half ass it or ignore it because it takes a ton of time and they want to see the return on investment (unfinished video game symptom), the programming is contracted out (a ton of plugins ship with bugs found in the beta test still present because the company doesn’t want to contract the programmer again to fix them), or for copy protection they’re coding for outdated DSP chips that get their ass whooped by modern CPUs so can’t include a ton of the non-linear behavior and code a decently behaving side-chain. I remember Slate gave UAD shit for not including some non-linearities and then the Slate 76 clicked like crazy. I always get the feeling many of the plug-in clones are voiced for quick demo- sale, it’s all about the perceived personality not the actual tool. It’s like just give me a separate distortion plug and a good recreation of what the comp should be doing! The compression needs to be right but the distortion/saturation needs to be tied to the input, output, and gain reduction like U-he and Tokyo Dawn do. I still need to try Unisum. When the harmonics are missing (DMG Trackcomp) or aliased (Waves, PSP), they emulations just sound really bad or makes things worse. The aliased foldback down to 1khz or 300hz is just fatal to open sound.
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Post by RealNoob on Dec 31, 2020 0:17:32 GMT -6
As always these kind of discussions get out of control. To my ears most of the newer plugins are lightyears ahead of what we had 10 to 15 years ago. Yes, I remember when all I had was Waves gold and thought it was amazing.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 31, 2020 4:18:39 GMT -6
As always these kind of discussions get out of control. To my ears most of the newer plugins are lightyears ahead of what we had 10 to 15 years ago. Yes, I remember when all I had was Waves gold and thought it was amazing. I love R comp, R channel, RVox, RVerb, L1, L2, Q10, H Delay. Gold also has H Comp, V Comp, VEQ3, TrueVerb, Vitamin, Sibilance,, . 95% of major studios in ATL still uses Waves just how big of a version varies but Gold is no slouch. I could do mixes fine w Gold all day even if the plugs don’t match what they emulate or if they alias fold back w/e Dan talks about a lot If it sounds good it is good but that’s always a fine line as well
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 12:44:42 GMT -6
Yes, I remember when all I had was Waves gold and thought it was amazing. I love R comp, R channel, RVox, RVerb, L1, L2, Q10, H Delay. Gold also has H Comp, V Comp, VEQ3, TrueVerb, Vitamin, Sibilance,, . 95% of major studios in ATL still uses Waves just how big of a version varies but Gold is no slouch. I could do mixes fine w Gold all day even if the plugs don’t match what they emulate or if they alias fold back w/e Dan talks about a lot If it sounds good it is good but that’s always a fine line as well The problem with Waves is the quality pretty much tanked after the Renaissance bundle and L1/L2 classics, which you’ll need to suppress peaks. Waves was once up there with Sony/Sonnox Oxford and the SSL plugs. They just started doing bad analog emulations and the lack of quality was obvious vs UAD, SSL, and Cytomic back in the day. Like that EMI compressor they just did is aliased and pumps. How will they compete with MJUC except for selling it to noobs vulnerable to advertising? It is more expensive too and the thing is typically used with like 30-40 db of gain reduction so when you raise it up it’s gross. I could do a mix with them or stock daw plugs but things will end up overeqed to fit together due to most of the tracks I get not being frontloaded at all. There’s also simple technical issues that free and older plugs cannot overcome like fast attack/release compressor behavior and some reverb issues.
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Post by theshea on Dec 31, 2020 12:55:40 GMT -6
i am no pro mixer and mostly i use my plugins on the lighter side and don’t push them to the extrem. so maybe thats why i am rather happy with how plugins sound. never had audible problems with aliasing ... i have some outboard that i use during tracking and when i use it for mixing (eg stam adg76) there‘s not that night and day difference with a 1176 plugin. again, not using extreme settings. hell, i can even put the waves ssl comp on the mixbus and it sounds not „wrong“ to me ... i am really happy with plugin quality. off course, the sky is the limit and quality could always be improved in the details.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2020 15:17:34 GMT -6
I love R comp, R channel, RVox, RVerb, L1, L2, Q10, H Delay. Gold also has H Comp, V Comp, VEQ3, TrueVerb, Vitamin, Sibilance,, . 95% of major studios in ATL still uses Waves just how big of a version varies but Gold is no slouch. I could do mixes fine w Gold all day even if the plugs don’t match what they emulate or if they alias fold back w/e Dan talks about a lot If it sounds good it is good but that’s always a fine line as well The problem with Waves is the quality pretty much tanked after the Renaissance bundle and L1/L2 classics, which you’ll need to suppress peaks. Waves was once up there with Sony/Sonnox Oxford and the SSL plugs. They just started doing bad analog emulations and the lack of quality was obvious vs UAD, SSL, and Cytomic back in the day. Like that EMI compressor they just did is aliased and pumps. How will they compete with MJUC except for selling it to noobs vulnerable to advertising? It is more expensive too and the thing is typically used with like 30-40 db of gain reduction so when you raise it up it’s gross. I could do a mix with them or stock daw plugs but things will end up overeqed to fit together due to most of the tracks I get not being frontloaded at all. There’s also simple technical issues that free and older plugs cannot overcome like fast attack/release compressor behavior and some reverb issues. They sell through dealers, GC guys love to sell Waves bundles,
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 15:48:58 GMT -6
The problem with Waves is the quality pretty much tanked after the Renaissance bundle and L1/L2 classics, which you’ll need to suppress peaks. Waves was once up there with Sony/Sonnox Oxford and the SSL plugs. They just started doing bad analog emulations and the lack of quality was obvious vs UAD, SSL, and Cytomic back in the day. Like that EMI compressor they just did is aliased and pumps. How will they compete with MJUC except for selling it to noobs vulnerable to advertising? It is more expensive too and the thing is typically used with like 30-40 db of gain reduction so when you raise it up it’s gross. I could do a mix with them or stock daw plugs but things will end up overeqed to fit together due to most of the tracks I get not being frontloaded at all. There’s also simple technical issues that free and older plugs cannot overcome like fast attack/release compressor behavior and some reverb issues. They sell through dealers, GC guys love to sell Waves bundles, Same with the UAD bundles. "You can get tape, an 1176, and an API pre for only 300 more with your Twin!" Nevermind that a CAPI kit is under 300 bucks. I got that from Sweetwater multiple times. I got it from them right after I told them that I hated the UAD and RME sound and asked for a discount on SPL or Dangerous gear. Then I called them up to make sure I got the new MOTUs instead of old ones... SAME SHILL from different rep. They also tried to sell me Grace gear after they called me and I told them that I had unloaded some Grace gear in a firesale because I thought Grace was big but flat, not really clean, dead inside, veiled, colored in the treble in an uncool way, and couldn't live with it!
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