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Post by wiz on Jan 24, 2021 19:07:12 GMT -6
I thought that was an Alesis 3630 at first glance..... nothing to see here.. keep moving
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 24, 2021 19:07:47 GMT -6
So how are you liking the ATC’s I mean, it's only been a few hours, but I've been listening for those few hours. They're incredible so far!
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 24, 2021 19:08:48 GMT -6
I thought that was an Alesis 3630 at first glance..... nothing to see here.. keep moving Lol! I actually like the Alesis! It's a modded Ashly CLX52.....
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2021 19:19:29 GMT -6
I love em, oh wait,, you weren’t asking me !
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2021 20:05:11 GMT -6
And you have the p1 amp? That’s truly awesome!
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 24, 2021 20:16:10 GMT -6
And you have the p1 amp? That’s truly awesome! Yeah, I bit the bullet and went for it. I spent a lot of time looking for something cheaper like used Bryson’s, modded hi fi stuff, etc...I felt like if I was getting these speakers, I really wanted them to perform exactly the way they were designed to. Sweetwater happened to have a demo model of the P1 for a few hundred cheaper so I went for it! It’s a beast. 19x19 and 44lbs. It was an effort getting it racked up!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2021 20:36:38 GMT -6
Right decision, who’d buy a Ferrari without a Ferrari engine and transmission: all in atc or not at all!
Atc design and build acumen and capacity is arguable second to none, no compromise, it costs what costs to do right, and that’s the only way they do it !
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Post by tim on Jan 24, 2021 22:34:23 GMT -6
Update....got my ATC SCM12's and P1 amp today. Very excited that they came on a Sunday when I had some time to set them up! Congratulations!!
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Post by RealNoob on Apr 24, 2021 17:16:57 GMT -6
nick8801 - Did Alto take the APS back without issue? the issue you mentioned is weird. I'm asking to see if I had them and discovered an issue, if Alto as trustworthy as VK or SW. Congrats on the ATC's. You're good for a while I bet. SOS's review was pretty striking and unique. It's rare they say Woah! about a monitor. Regarding the JBL 705P's, they mentioned bloat in the low mids so THAT review wasn't glowing. The review of the original Klasiks was good but not glowing so.... the Klasik 2020's are still on the radar for me. They do give a glowing review to the Hedd 07's. The Hedd's never catch any flack - nary a complaint. I can't exceed $2K presently but am looking for a pair of speakers. Some of you guys, especially Dan, seem to have the chance to hear everything - lol. I am presently leaning towards: APS Klasik 2020 Hedd 07 LYD 48 3-ways Used Focal Solos Focal Shape Evo 65 JBL 705P My current thought is the 1st two are a toss up with budget making the decision. I think the used solos come next. Any one care to comment further?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 17:33:11 GMT -6
Geithains seem good but you can’t buy them here in the USA. They are good, very good in fact (sweet spot like nothing else) but for a full range you're talking serious money. Too many years walking blind with 5" drivers made me reconsider and the upper echelons were too pricey.. Presonus Sceptre's (also Coax) were pretty good if memory serves correctly, unfortunately I heard a demo pair and later on couldn't get hold of them again. @robsmith Dynaudio's are very good, personally I prefer either Coax or 3-way systems although adjusting to one's listening environment / referencing plays one of the biggest parts IMO.
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 24, 2021 19:05:34 GMT -6
nick8801 - Did Alto take the APS back without issue? the issue you mentioned is weird. I'm asking to see if I had them and discovered an issue, if Alto as trustworthy as VK or SW. Congrats on the ATC's. You're good for a while I bet. SOS's review was pretty striking and unique. It's rare they say Woah! about a monitor. Regarding the JBL 705P's, they mentioned bloat in the low mids so THAT review wasn't glowing. The review of the original Klasiks was good but not glowing so.... the Klasik 2020's are still on the radar for me. They do give a glowing review to the Hedd 07's. The Hedd's never catch any flack - nary a complaint. I can't exceed $2K presently but am looking for a pair of speakers. Some of you guys, especially Dan, seem to have the chance to hear everything - lol. I am presently leaning towards: APS Klasik 2020 Hedd 07 LYD 48 3-ways Used Focal Solos Focal Shape Evo 65 JBL 705P My current thought is the 1st two are a toss up with budget making the decision. I think the used solos come next. Any one care to comment further? I went back and forth a bit with their customer service, but they were understanding and took them back. It kinda sucked because I did really like the speakers. Spending what I did on the ATC’s wasn’t my initial intention. Having had a chance to have both in my room, I will say, you get what you pay for. I had to run sonarworks on the APS to get them to work in my room. Since getting the ATC’s I haven’t even opened up sonarworks. A lot of that has to do with the closed box, unhyped bass, but I find them super easy to work on. Good luck on your search!
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Post by RealNoob on Apr 24, 2021 19:57:52 GMT -6
I went back and forth a bit with their customer service, but they were understanding and took them back. It kinda sucked because I did really like the speakers. Spending what I did on the ATC’s wasn’t my initial intention. Having had a chance to have both in my room, I will say, you get what you pay for. I had to run sonarworks on the APS to get them to work in my room. Since getting the ATC’s I haven’t even opened up sonarworks. A lot of that has to do with the closed box, unhyped bass, but I find them super easy to work on. Good luck on your search! I know that's true and almost nothing compares to ATC. spekaing of closed boxes, the Hedd 07 has that option - seems interesting.
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 25, 2021 5:35:51 GMT -6
I went back and forth a bit with their customer service, but they were understanding and took them back. It kinda sucked because I did really like the speakers. Spending what I did on the ATC’s wasn’t my initial intention. Having had a chance to have both in my room, I will say, you get what you pay for. I had to run sonarworks on the APS to get them to work in my room. Since getting the ATC’s I haven’t even opened up sonarworks. A lot of that has to do with the closed box, unhyped bass, but I find them super easy to work on. Good luck on your search! I know that's true and almost nothing compares to ATC. spekaing of closed boxes, the Hedd 07 has that option - seems interesting. I thought they were ported? You mean you can stick some foam in the ports to close them off?
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Post by Guitar on Apr 25, 2021 5:53:39 GMT -6
Beautiful setup! Looks inspiring to work on.
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Post by RealNoob on Apr 25, 2021 6:18:56 GMT -6
I know that's true and almost nothing compares to ATC. spekaing of closed boxes, the Hedd 07 has that option - seems interesting. I thought they were ported? You mean you can stick some foam in the ports to close them off? Yes they are ported and have model specific plugs. I thought it interesting too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 9:06:57 GMT -6
nick8801 - Did Alto take the APS back without issue? the issue you mentioned is weird. I'm asking to see if I had them and discovered an issue, if Alto as trustworthy as VK or SW. Congrats on the ATC's. You're good for a while I bet. SOS's review was pretty striking and unique. It's rare they say Woah! about a monitor. Regarding the JBL 705P's, they mentioned bloat in the low mids so THAT review wasn't glowing. The review of the original Klasiks was good but not glowing so.... the Klasik 2020's are still on the radar for me. They do give a glowing review to the Hedd 07's. The Hedd's never catch any flack - nary a complaint. I can't exceed $2K presently but am looking for a pair of speakers. Some of you guys, especially Dan, seem to have the chance to hear everything - lol. I am presently leaning towards: APS Klasik 2020 Hedd 07 LYD 48 3-ways Used Focal Solos Focal Shape Evo 65 JBL 705P My current thought is the 1st two are a toss up with budget making the decision. I think the used solos come next. Any one care to comment further? I haven’t heard anything Hedd. Zero physical distribution in the USA despite the gear safe space ads and everyone I know in the USA who bought them, bought them blind on word of mouth or heard them at an speaker/gear show. You’re going to have a bitch of a time getting them serviced compared to Focals (solos didn’t use focal woofers but not sure about the new eco) or ATCs. And these plate amps need servicing or replacement every few years due to heat. Shit caps or no heat sinks in everything but atc and quested. There’s fucking Yihcon caps in focal plate amps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 9:57:03 GMT -6
nick8801 - Did Alto take the APS back without issue? the issue you mentioned is weird. I'm asking to see if I had them and discovered an issue, if Alto as trustworthy as VK or SW. Congrats on the ATC's. You're good for a while I bet. SOS's review was pretty striking and unique. It's rare they say Woah! about a monitor. Regarding the JBL 705P's, they mentioned bloat in the low mids so THAT review wasn't glowing. The review of the original Klasiks was good but not glowing so.... the Klasik 2020's are still on the radar for me. They do give a glowing review to the Hedd 07's. The Hedd's never catch any flack - nary a complaint. I can't exceed $2K presently but am looking for a pair of speakers. Some of you guys, especially Dan, seem to have the chance to hear everything - lol. I am presently leaning towards: APS Klasik 2020 Hedd 07 LYD 48 3-ways Used Focal Solos Focal Shape Evo 65 JBL 705P My current thought is the 1st two are a toss up with budget making the decision. I think the used solos come next. Any one care to comment further? I will say, you get what you pay for. To an extent, I'll apologise if I come across strongly worded here. Especially because one person's gold is another's bronze and I've heard excellent mixes come from Senny HD650's alone (something I could never do). I spent a few years booking out actual studio's because simply put I didn't trust my monitors, to rectify said problem I took six months before the pandemic to review as many demo pairs as possible. I can make a few $100.00 mic's work in a mix but a cheap monitor setup in a badly or semi-treated room? No, no chance I'd rather just mix on headphones. Originally I started out testing monitors in my immediate budget, bearing in mind the studio I was on / off renting had a pair of barefoot's w/ $10K's worth of treatment that was my "basis of quality".. The result? Everything I tested under $2K was a mix of mushy information, bad stereo responses, technical issues or compromise (not every one was bad but none were great either). Just to note besides HEDD and APS I've tried most of the monitors listed in this thread.. At this point somewhat disheartened I threw caution and budget to the wind, that's when I encountered Barefoot (other one's) / Dynaudio's upper end / PMC / Geithain etc. and the gap / quality / performance ultimately saw the law of diminishing returns. Obviously diminishing returns stack but for the most part I could work on any of them happily and trust the end result. Even at the 5 - 8K mark there were still things about a certain speaker setup that I preferred. The Gethain's again for example, you could move your head in any direction / move your chair back / to the side and the 3D coax based stereo field would never collapse (impressive stuff). None of the others could match them in that specific way, although some had more "positive" clarity (not just analytical therefore steering a mix to over processing) etc. Ultimately I went for the LYD 48's because they were the best "middle ground", I've heard more impressive monitors, there's more analytical setups for sure but they have a certain sense of neutral clarity not too distant from their end goal to translate. They can sound impressive or bad dependant on the source material but they don't beat you over the head it, (like a notification every 5 minutes rather than a never ending stream of THAT'S WROONNG, IT'S WROONG CAN'T YOU TELL IT'S WROOOOONG) *Cough, in terms of performance / stereo field response again I've heard better but they don't sound compromised at all either. I don't think I'll ever "upgrade" them as part of the challenge is adapting and that can take years. New monitor time for me is a nightmare.. Of course this is my personal experience and YMMV..
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 25, 2021 13:00:51 GMT -6
I will say, you get what you pay for. To an extent, I'll apologise if I come across strongly worded here. Especially because one person's gold is another's bronze and I've heard excellent mixes come from Senny HD650's alone (something I could never do). I spent a few years booking out actual studio's because simply put I didn't trust my monitors, to rectify said problem I took six months before the pandemic to review as many demo pairs as possible. I can make a few $100.00 mic's work in a mix but a cheap monitor setup in a badly or semi-treated room? No, no chance I'd rather just mix on headphones. Originally I started out testing monitors in my immediate budget, bearing in mind the studio I was on / off renting had a pair of barefoot's w/ $10K's worth of treatment that was my "basis of quality".. The result? Everything I tested under $2K was a mix of mushy information, bad stereo responses, technical issues or compromise (not every one was bad but none were great either). Just to note besides HEDD and APS I've tried most of the monitors listed in this thread.. At this point somewhat disheartened I threw caution and budget to the wind, that's when I encountered Barefoot (other one's) / Dynaudio's upper end / PMC / Geithain etc. and the gap / quality / performance ultimately saw the law of diminishing returns. Obviously diminishing returns stack but for the most part I could work on any of them happily and trust the end result. Even at the 5 - 8K mark there were still things about a certain speaker setup that I preferred. The Gethain's again for example, you could move your head in any direction / move your chair back / to the side and the 3D coax based stereo field would never collapse (impressive stuff). None of the others could match them in that specific way, although some had more "positive" clarity (not just analytical therefore steering a mix to over processing) etc. Ultimately I went for the LYD 48's because they were the best "middle ground", I've heard more impressive monitors, there's more analytical setups for sure but they have a certain sense of neutral clarity not too distant from their end goal to translate. They can sound impressive or bad dependant on the source material but they don't beat you over the head it, (like a notification every 5 minutes rather than a never ending stream of THAT'S WROONNG, IT'S WROONG CAN'T YOU TELL IT'S WROOOOONG) *Cough, in terms of performance / stereo field response again I've heard better but they don't sound compromised at all either. I don't think I'll ever "upgrade" them as part of the challenge is adapting and that can take years. New monitor time for me is a nightmare.. Of course this is my personal experience and YMMV.. Oh I totally get what you’re saying. I kinda meant that besides the fact that they are easier to mix on, the use of materials is just plain better. Like Dan said, there’s no way the plate amps in most of those low to mid range, and even some high end monitors comes close to what’s in my ATC amp. Even the speaker materials. My passives weight more than several pairs of actives I’ve had in the past. Sure you can make a good mix on almost anything, but at some point you get tired of compromise.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 18:22:27 GMT -6
Monitors are so personal. I felt the KRK V6S4 (what I’m using until the noisy plate amps melt) and recent Focal Shape and Arias (thanks Guitar and ericn for this rec too) were incredible workhorses and didn’t like the recent Dynaudios, Amphions, cheaper Focals and the CMS (there was always something totally wrong about the low mids) at all. The two way ATCs were super detailed but not big picture enough to be super motivating (you get lost in stuff that doesn’t matter even while listening on them) while the scm 50 shows that Billy Woodman is a bodhisattva of speaker design. I have no idea how people balance and sit vocals on JBLs or Adams despite them sounding good. They probably think I’m nuts for liking most KRK 6.5” woofer monitors but whatever.
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Post by raddistribution on Apr 26, 2021 7:55:13 GMT -6
nick8801 - Did Alto take the APS back without issue? the issue you mentioned is weird. I'm asking to see if I had them and discovered an issue, if Alto as trustworthy as VK or SW. Congrats on the ATC's. You're good for a while I bet. SOS's review was pretty striking and unique. It's rare they say Woah! about a monitor. Regarding the JBL 705P's, they mentioned bloat in the low mids so THAT review wasn't glowing. The review of the original Klasiks was good but not glowing so.... the Klasik 2020's are still on the radar for me. They do give a glowing review to the Hedd 07's. The Hedd's never catch any flack - nary a complaint. I can't exceed $2K presently but am looking for a pair of speakers. Some of you guys, especially Dan, seem to have the chance to hear everything - lol. I am presently leaning towards: APS Klasik 2020 Hedd 07 LYD 48 3-ways Used Focal Solos Focal Shape Evo 65 JBL 705P My current thought is the 1st two are a toss up with budget making the decision. I think the used solos come next. Any one care to comment further? Plenty in the U.S. These are carried by soundpure, Westlake, alto music, front end audio, vintage king, b&h, calistro music, lunchbox audio and perfect circuit audio.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2021 9:30:31 GMT -6
I thought they were ported? You mean you can stick some foam in the ports to close them off? Yes they are ported and have model specific plugs. I thought it interesting too The question to ask here is what was the system designed to be ported or sealed? It’s not very often that the optimum volume for a ported cabinet is the exact same as the driver in a sealed cabinet. So which one is compromised? Or are they both. Also in the past every system I have ever seen that uses port plugs leaks like the Exxon Valdez and this is apparent when measured. I did see one very rare system where you unscrewed the port and could then screw in a cap. The cap had a large beam on it that also screwed to the back of the cabinet. The volume of this tube was calculated to retune the cabinet volume for the optimal sealed volume. These were frick genius, but I’m sure expensive as hell to build.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 26, 2021 10:19:48 GMT -6
I stuffed some socks in the bung-holes of my KRK V6 back in the day. It made some difference but I ended up taking them out, eventually. I don't really remember what the difference was, or whether it was good or bad, it seems like it was hard to say. I'm probably a more careful listener now, though, so it would be fun to try again with what I have here.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 26, 2021 11:21:22 GMT -6
Alto Music is run by a great crew. They're incredibly knowledgable and helpful, and as into it all as much as we are, or more. Trust them, you won't regret it.
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Post by RealNoob on Apr 26, 2021 12:41:41 GMT -6
Alto Music is run by a great crew. They're incredibly knowledgable and helpful, and as into it all as much as we are, or more. Trust them, you won't regret it. Thanks for the heads up
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2021 15:37:43 GMT -6
Monitors are so personal. I felt the KRK V6S4 (what I’m using until the noisy plate amps melt) and recent Focal Shape and Arias (thanks Guitar and ericn for this rec too) were incredible workhorses and didn’t like the recent Dynaudios, Amphions, cheaper Focals and the CMS (there was always something totally wrong about the low mids) at all. The two way ATCs were super detailed but not big picture enough to be super motivating (you get lost in stuff that doesn’t matter even while listening on them) while the scm 50 shows that Billy Woodman is a bodhisattva of speaker design. I have no idea how people balance and sit vocals on JBLs or Adams despite them sounding good. They probably think I’m nuts for liking most KRK 6.5” woofer monitors but whatever. Part of it goes back to this simple concept we listen through not to speakers. You have to get to know what a speaker gets right and what it gets wrong. This is how people can mix with NS10’s. It’s not that they are magical it’s that they are everywhere and all of them are pretty similar. The Best AE’s I know carry tracks with them that they know are probably going to sound crappy on most speakers, so they can quickly get an idea of what any set is doing wrong and adjust around them.
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