|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 16, 2020 11:50:16 GMT -6
I just got off the phone with someone at Alto. Basically agreed that it was just something weird with the speakers. Tried different outlets, turning off all other electronics in the room, etc. Not worth the hassle for a brand new pair of 1100 dollar speakers. Will Brad try and sell me some ATC’s? I’m down, who’s buying them for me?!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 12:04:02 GMT -6
Just an update on these....I had to return them unfortunately. They sounded really fantastic, but there was an audible buzz coming out of the power supplies that was driving me nuts. Not sure if it was some kind of interference in my house, or just part of the design, but it was loud enough to bug me in a very quiet room. The problem is crappy Chinese OEM power supplies with transformers with bad lamination and shitty bunghole filtering caps that lie about their real value. Then you have a small monitor manufacturer not moving hundreds of thousands of units like JBL (Samsung), KRK (Gibson), or Yamaha so they can’t perform quality control like that. For active two way monitors, break out the wallet and get either Quested V2108 or ATC SCM20ASL. The electronics suck in everything but ATC and Quested ime
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 16, 2020 12:08:08 GMT -6
Just an update on these....I had to return them unfortunately. They sounded really fantastic, but there was an audible buzz coming out of the power supplies that was driving me nuts. Not sure if it was some kind of interference in my house, or just part of the design, but it was loud enough to bug me in a very quiet room. The problem is crappy Chinese OEM power supplies with transformers with bad lamination and shitty bunghole filtering caps that lie about their real value. Then you have a small monitor manufacturer not moving hundreds of thousands of units like JBL (Samsung), KRK (Gibson), or Yamaha so they can’t perform quality control like that. For active two way monitors, break out the wallet and get either Quested V2108 or ATC SCM20ASL. The electronics suck in everything but ATC and Quested ime That is some good advice. I was maybe considering the Neumann kh120’s. They seem to be pretty solid and are good tools. Maybe not the most impressive speakers ever, but if I can mix on them I’ll be happy. Any thoughts on those?
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 16, 2020 12:08:59 GMT -6
I’ve also had Psi on my radar but again, it’s starts getting pricey up there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 12:50:37 GMT -6
The problem is crappy Chinese OEM power supplies with transformers with bad lamination and shitty bunghole filtering caps that lie about their real value. Then you have a small monitor manufacturer not moving hundreds of thousands of units like JBL (Samsung), KRK (Gibson), or Yamaha so they can’t perform quality control like that. For active two way monitors, break out the wallet and get either Quested V2108 or ATC SCM20ASL. The electronics suck in everything but ATC and Quested ime That is some good advice. I was maybe considering the Neumann kh120’s. They seem to be pretty solid and are good tools. Maybe not the most impressive speakers ever, but if I can mix on them I’ll be happy. Any thoughts on those? They sound okay but are crap for the price. Tymphany drivers and bog standard class ab plate amps but thankfully not chinese oem. Your APS had much better Seas drivers. It’s hard to recommend the KH120 when it costs more than the APS Klasik, more than KRK V6S4, is the same price as KRK V8, only 400 below the ATC SCM 12 (destroys it in every way), more than the Bag End M-6 (custom Radian drivers and wrecks it), HEDD 07 (wrecks it), Amphions (kills it for clarity), etc. These all kill it for clarity. The Neumann is warm, cozy, wooly poly woofer low end with super overdamped high end but with the metal tweeter tizz. The Neumann Ultra complex crossover and crazy array of limiters means it can’t show 1-2 db compression envelopes. Exactly like the HS8‘s always active limiter but with less diy support and mods possible. The JBL 305 V2 is better than the KH120 for compression sadly. I’ve had both side by side. Neumanns won’t break for the lifetime of the product but when the next version of the product comes out, you’re totally fucked because you can’t self repair it, Sennheiser will tell you to fuck off, and the crossover is ultra complex and it requires internal calibration which Sennheiser won’t tell you. You can’t even rip the plate amps out and convert it to a passive speaker with the crossover done digitally in REW or MiniDSP like many have done with other monitors with dead plate amps.
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 16, 2020 13:06:56 GMT -6
Seriously good info here. Yeah, the Klasiks are a bit unfortunate. They really did sound excellent, but if the reason they are so cheap is the power supply and amp, then I'm kinda glad I don't have them anymore. Aren't the SCM12 passive? I've listened to ATC'a and kind of love the sound, but if you need any low end, you're pushed way up into the expensive bracket. I was also looking at Geithain RL906's which are a bit of stretch, but kind of what I was looking for in the first place. Coax, active, high quality. I just can't seem to find a dealer in the states.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 16, 2020 13:21:24 GMT -6
"Everything is amazing and nobody's happy." That is one helluva statement. Completely factual.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 13:30:05 GMT -6
Geithains seem good but you can’t buy them here in the USA. Some of the German and Dutch guys I talk to a lot told me the high end is “funny” due to the woofers intermodulating the coaxial tweeter more than normal. Instead of an entire coaxial driver assembly like Tannoy or Radian, they just stick the drivers on top of each other. They said it was great except for the treble. Most of the hype was due to that gearslutz thread where the guy was running monitors through a Trinnov, killing detail and headroom. Boosting bass on most active monitors to get past the electronic high pass filter just raises distortion and then trying to linearize stuff like PSIs and the active ATCs, which use both use delays to keep the drivers time and phase coherent, will always fail horribly. So that entire thread was just for the op in his room running through his Trinnov. He complained about Quested H108 and chose Amphion over them because some guy was using the Questeds (with no waveguide to color the sound and restrict dispersion) in front of a sun window in an untreated room. He said the H108s running off a diy Ncore 400 were more “distorted” than Amphions despite them just revealing the class d bullshit treble and low current bass and that’s when I realized his impressions were less reliable than the guys posting in the Amphion thread. The Volt woofer and Morel tweeter shit on the quite decent Seas drivers for detail. The Amphions are just brighter and have more imd from aluminum driver breakup and are grossly underpowered by a 400w per channel class d amp, so less/more inaccurate bass.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 13:44:16 GMT -6
Seriously good info here. Yeah, the Klasiks are a bit unfortunate. They really did sound excellent, but if the reason they are so cheap is the power supply and amp, then I'm kinda glad I don't have them anymore. Aren't the SCM12 passive? I've listened to ATC'a and kind of love the sound, but if you need any low end, you're pushed way up into the expensive bracket. I was also looking at Geithain RL906's which are a bit of stretch, but kind of what I was looking for in the first place. Coax, active, high quality. I just can't seem to find a dealer in the states. Quested = ATC with more bass and slightly duller treble.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 16, 2020 14:20:54 GMT -6
I am no high end buyer by a long stretch, but some of these reasons are a good argument to go separates/passive. It's so much more convenient to have separate speakers and amps, at least for me. What's here is a Focal Aria 906 pair and an Emotiva XPA-200 power amp. All the other rooms here are passive/amp as well.
"Bullshit treble and low current bass," love that, can totally relate to that experience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 15:29:33 GMT -6
I am no high end buyer by a long stretch, but some of these reasons are a good argument to go separates/passive. It's so much more convenient to have separate speakers and amps, at least for me. What's here is a Focal Aria 906 pair and an Emotiva XPA-200 power amp. All the other rooms here are passive/amp as well. "Bullshit treble and low current bass," love that, can totally relate to that experience. That emotiva Class ab kicks the crap out of the OEM plate amps focal uses. Those cost what? 20 bucks each wholesale max? Even the ncores with discrete input buffers suck compared to the bigger emotivas, bryston, and Jim Williams modded Adcoms. atc and quested are the only active monitors I’ve seen that don’t use crap. The ATC power amps are insane. That 300w dual mono amp is nuts and the specs on it are so conservative. The emotiva xpa-2 is 300 watts RMS per channel, 8 ohms, <.1% THD. The ATC P2 is 300wpc RMS, 8 ohms, <.002% THD. Quested use MC2 which are even more powerful but slightly higher distortion than ATC’s amps. The unity boulder v2 used E.A.R. amps but the current v3 is class d.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 16, 2020 15:56:00 GMT -6
atc and quested are the only active monitors I’ve seen that don’t use crap. Fulcrum.
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 16, 2020 17:10:51 GMT -6
Fulcrums are insane. Wish I could afford them! Even their smallest is still a little big for my small room though. I’m gonna look into the ATC scm12 with their amp. I definitely wouldn’t have regrets about having those in front of me everyday. Also, I gotta say that I can make a pretty killer mix on good old ns10’s. If I check bass on headphones I’m usually good to go.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2020 18:13:57 GMT -6
atc and quested are the only active monitors I’ve seen that don’t use crap. Fulcrum. Those looks nuts in a good way!
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 18, 2020 2:43:45 GMT -6
Scanspeak ( more DIY / OEM but supreme SQ ), Dynaudio, Barefoot Sound, PMC, Dutch & Dutch looked pretty bad ass as well as Kii Three but most of those monitors cost a lot of body parts 🤣
Sorry to hear about the APS monitors, what budget do you have now?Eliminate based on cost. I had $5650 BF MM45 on my list. Ppl kept saying ATC for a few grand more lol. That lead to too much time reading ATC threads knowing the MM45 was already at the high end of my budget. Ended up w/ Barefoot FP01 + FP01 sound anchors ( about $4500 now )
If you have good credit + business income + tax expenses use this to leverage a bigger purchase for your business/ studio. Like 36 months same as cash ( Sweetwater ) 18 months no interest ( VK ) . Ntm a $10,000 business expense doesn’t equal $10,000 dollars in tax deduction.
Hope this can help expand your budget & get the monitor you been dreaming about!!!
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 6:39:08 GMT -6
Scanspeak ( more DIY / OEM but supreme SQ ), Dynaudio, Barefoot Sound, PMC, Dutch & Dutch looked pretty bad ass as well as Kii Three but most of those monitors cost a lot of body parts 🤣 Sorry to hear about the APS monitors, what budget do you have now?Eliminate based on cost. I had $5650 BF MM45 on my list. Ppl kept saying ATC for a few grand more lol. That lead to too much time reading ATC threads knowing the MM45 was already at the high end of my budget. Ended up w/ Barefoot FP01 + FP01 sound anchors ( about $4500 now ) If you have good credit + business income + tax expenses use this to leverage a bigger purchase for your business/ studio. Like 36 months same as cash ( Sweetwater ) 18 months no interest ( VK ) . Ntm a $10,000 business expense doesn’t equal $10,000 dollars in tax deduction. Hope this can help expand your budget & get the monitor you been dreaming about!!! Yeah, I’ve pretty much decided that I’m just gonna spend money and get some real speakers that I’ll have for many years to come. I’ve had a rotating cast of mid to low level monitors in my studio for the last 15 years, and I’m kind of over it. Definitely gonna use the financing option as well. I really like ATC. The scm12 are at the top of my list. I’d probably get the matching amp as well just so I don’t ever question the setup. Both Sweetwater and Vintage King have great financing options on these.
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 18, 2020 19:58:09 GMT -6
Ok I did it. SCM12’s with the P1 amp on their way to me late January. To say I’m excited is an understatement.
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 19, 2020 7:07:14 GMT -6
Hell yeah, Congrats!!! That’s awesome 👏 No second guessing the monitoring now. After 15 years that has to be an amazing feeling to get exactly what you want no compromises!
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Dec 19, 2020 7:22:18 GMT -6
It really is. If I could go back in time and talk to my younger self, my advice would be to stop buying cheap stuff you’re going to replace in a few years. Although I’m not so sure I would really have appreciated the higher end stuff fully till now.
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Dec 19, 2020 17:35:17 GMT -6
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the ATC's. Those have been on my radar as well.
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Jan 24, 2021 17:56:13 GMT -6
Update....got my ATC SCM12's and P1 amp today. Very excited that they came on a Sunday when I had some time to set them up! They are PERFECT for my room. Listening right now at very low levels....the clarity is astounding. I think the ATC amp is a must for these. They are VERY power hungry. Do I feel a little guilty spending this much money? Yes. Have I spent this much on instruments and other gear that wasn't as important? Yes. I've gone on a complete gear purge the last several months. The pandemic has been good for that. Really made me figure out what was important and what wasn't. All in all, I was able to basically flip everything for this new setup. Between the Lynx and these monitors I feel like my little production setup is just perfect for my needs. I could't wish for anything more. It's a great feeling. Now, time to make some music!
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2021 18:14:32 GMT -6
Man, that is so exciting: colour me fluorescent green !!!!
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Jan 24, 2021 18:21:09 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 24, 2021 18:27:24 GMT -6
Sigh,,,,
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Jan 24, 2021 18:45:07 GMT -6
So how are you liking the ATC’s
|
|