|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Mar 31, 2014 20:33:21 GMT -6
Since conversion is such the hot topic today  , i have a practical question, i'm looking at possibly getting into a 32 DA output, and could live with as little as 16 AD inputs, i'm considering moving up to a pro tools HD rig for lack of a better native alternative, can anyone familiar with the set up tell me exactly what i need to complete this set up? I have no earthly clue how to configure this set up? from interfaces to I/O cards to pcie cards to...? I'm pretty sure i'm gonna have to pay big $ to up my waves platinum package to TDM or the new equivalent. i'm using a nalahem macpro 8 core with 16 gigs of memory. I should also clarify that i'm almost 100% OTB w/50 channel console. thanx for any help T |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Mar 31, 2014 21:24:02 GMT -6
Tony - Nehalem 8 core is an excellent machine for an HD rig. You need :
Accel Core card (HD1)
Multiple additions of HD cards (HD2-3).
You can only do a HD3 without an expansion chassis. Good news is, the Nehalem is a great platform for an expansion chassis if you need it.
Then, you need a 192 or two. You can get up to 16 DA on the 192 with an additional analog DA card (fits in the 192 chassis) IT also has 8 channels of digitial i/o.
Best bang for buck? Expansion chassis and PCIX cards, 2 Digi 192's. Pretty powerful system for pennies on the dollar of what it originally cost.
|
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Mar 31, 2014 21:30:24 GMT -6
I wouldn't go less than HD3 if going with the older system! My 2cent from experience.
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Mar 31, 2014 22:00:43 GMT -6
Tony - Nehalem 8 core is an excellent machine for an HD rig. You need : Accel Core card (HD1) Multiple additions of HD cards (HD2-3). You can only do a HD3 without an expansion chassis. Good news is, the Nehalem is a great platform for an expansion chassis if you need it. Then, you need a 192 or two. You can get up to 16 DA on the 192 with an additional analog DA card (fits in the 192 chassis) IT also has 8 channels of digitial i/o. Best bang for buck? Expansion chassis and PCIX cards, 2 Digi 192's. Pretty powerful system for pennies on the dollar of what it originally cost. excellent, thanks Bill, good stuff! |
|
|
|
Post by tasteliketape on Mar 31, 2014 22:11:08 GMT -6
So if i may hitch hike this thread a moment
I have a hd2 pcix an 192 on an old g5 how do i run this on a Nehalem Mac ? Or am i miss reading. dr bill post? Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Mar 31, 2014 22:14:29 GMT -6
I wouldn't go less than HD3 if going with the older system! My 2cent from experience. hey rick, anymore details on why you say this? thanx |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 31, 2014 22:25:05 GMT -6
Sounds like you are pretty set on digi converters, but you might still check on ssl converters and dsp card.. the setup gives you 24 analog i/o, and another 24 digital i/o from a single box and allows you to run both dsp plugs (comes with an array of ssl plugs) and can run native plugs too. around 5k$.
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Mar 31, 2014 22:32:51 GMT -6
Tony - Nehalem 8 core is an excellent machine for an HD rig. You need : Accel Core card (HD1) Multiple additions of HD cards (HD2-3). You can only do a HD3 without an expansion chassis. Good news is, the Nehalem is a great platform for an expansion chassis if you need it. Then, you need a 192 or two. You can get up to 16 DA on the 192 with an additional analog DA card (fits in the 192 chassis) IT also has 8 channels of digitial i/o. Best bang for buck? Expansion chassis and PCIX cards, 2 Digi 192's. Pretty powerful system for pennies on the dollar of what it originally cost.so Bill, if im understanding correctly, if i go with the 2-192's, with the addition of 2-8 channel D/A cards, that'll give me the 16 A/D ins and 32 D/A outs im looking for, my question is the HD3 set up WONT work with a second 192? excuse my ignorance on this, i've been reading a lot, but still quite a bit in the dark. I highlighted your best bang for the buck section, this seems like the ticket for me, is there a specific name for the PCIX cards, i couldn't find anything definitive on it? thanx again for your help T |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Mar 31, 2014 22:34:13 GMT -6
Sounds like you are pretty set on digi converters, but you might still check on ssl converters and dsp card.. the setup gives you 24 analog i/o, and another 24 digital i/o from a single box and allows you to run both dsp plugs (comes with an array of ssl plugs) and can run native plugs too. around 5k$. Thanx svart, i'll look into this for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Mar 31, 2014 22:58:48 GMT -6
Tony - Nehalem 8 core is an excellent machine for an HD rig. You need : Accel Core card (HD1) Multiple additions of HD cards (HD2-3). You can only do a HD3 without an expansion chassis. Good news is, the Nehalem is a great platform for an expansion chassis if you need it. Then, you need a 192 or two. You can get up to 16 DA on the 192 with an additional analog DA card (fits in the 192 chassis) IT also has 8 channels of digitial i/o. Best bang for buck? Expansion chassis and PCIX cards, 2 Digi 192's. Pretty powerful system for pennies on the dollar of what it originally cost.so Bill, if im understanding correctly, if i go with the 2-192's, with the addition of 2-8 channel D/A cards, that'll give me the 16 A/D ins and 32 D/A outs im looking for, my question is the HD3 set up WONT work with a second 192? excuse my ignorance on this, i've been reading a lot, but still quite a bit in the dark. I highlighted your best bang for the buck section, this seems like the ticket for me, is there a specific name for the PCIX cards, i couldn't find anything definitive on it? thanx again for your help T Yes, (2) 192's w/ 2 xtra D/A cards will net you 16 in and 32 out. Not sure what you mean with your other question. An HD3 can run...man, I forget...but at LEAST 64 i/o. You can hang 2 192's off each HD card. I don't know if that addresses your question or not, as I didn't really understand it. As for the PCI cards, the Nehalem has PCIe slots. HD cards come in either PCIe or PCIx (older). Both are discontinued now. Both are functionally exact with the exception of the pinout connectors. So....bang for buck, the PCIX's are cheaper now. Significantly cheaper. If you get the appropriate expansion chassis - Magma PE6R4-I which is PCIX to PCIe host card - you can run up to a HD6 I think. This is the system I run, and it's significantly better (for me) than any native system out there. Even though it's a decade old. All you need to do is decide whether to run an HD3 with PCIe and run the cards natively inside the computer - OR - buy PCIx cards and run them in the chassis. Just make sure to double check PCIe vs. PCIx when you buy a used card. Digi dealers like RSPE or Chris B @ Vintage King LA can help you config this. They have trade in systems. A bit more than ebay, but with the confidence you're building the RIGHT system for you with a salesman who knows what works and what doesn't. bp |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Mar 31, 2014 23:49:16 GMT -6
is it even possible to get an upgrade from pro tools 10/11 to pro tools 11HD? i heard somewhere you need to buy avid hardware to be able to get the HD 11 software? Not to mention, the $ might be prohibitive?
|
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Apr 1, 2014 0:18:43 GMT -6
10 is end of the line for HD hardware. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. 11 is not all it's cracked up to be, and AVID is on the rocks. At this point, ANYTHING could happen. But an HD system will keep you running for years....
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2014 6:57:46 GMT -6
10 is end of the line for HD hardware. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. 11 is not all it's cracked up to be, and AVID is on the rocks. At this point, ANYTHING could happen. But an HD system will keep you running for years.... hey Bill, thanx for letting me pick your brain on this! is HD native an option with a pair of 192's in the aforementioned configuration? I'm going to contact vintageking later this week, and see what they have to say on a rig? I does seem like you could easily pitfall if you piecemeal this thing together ebay style Thanx again T |
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Apr 1, 2014 7:28:08 GMT -6
I wouldn't go less than HD3 if going with the older system! My 2cent from experience. hey rick, anymore details on why you say this? thanx from a voicing standpoint (I think that is what the called...it's been 8 years) and for processing power. I would run out of power with a hd2, hd3 would've been enough for my needs. |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Apr 1, 2014 9:56:03 GMT -6
10 is end of the line for HD hardware. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. 11 is not all it's cracked up to be, and AVID is on the rocks. At this point, ANYTHING could happen. But an HD system will keep you running for years.... hey Bill, thanx for letting me pick your brain on this! is HD native an option with a pair of 192's in the aforementioned configuration? I'm going to contact vintageking later this week, and see what they have to say on a rig? I does seem like you could easily pitfall if you piecemeal this thing together ebay style Thanx again T I'm not sure. Talk to Chris B. He knows those systems in and out. Tell him I said "hi". He will take care of you. And yeah, over the years with computers, different versions, etc., it's gotten fairly complicated. If you know your systems, you can save a bit on ebay, but I like knowing that I'm taken care of and everything will work. |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2014 21:50:05 GMT -6
i did a little personal shoot out a bit ago, it included the antelope orion 32, i didn't exactly flip for it, it did sound really good, the connectivity was insane! 32 analog ins/outs dsub, and great digital connectivity as well. Although i had a clear favorite, (and without getting into that too much), as a matter of point, all three of the units in the comparison sounded really good, the differences were marginal except for connectivity and price. does anyone know of a reason why getting the antelope orion would be a bad idea? all the rules in my original post apply, i figure at worst, if i dont like it over time, and something else comes along, i could always sell it and get something back out of it? The digi 192's, native core card, or HD3 cards, and being stuck at pro tools 10HD 32 bit(which is also a significant additional cost as i only have standard pt10 and 11), seems like i may be throwing quite a bit more than $3k at it? besides this, someone may come out with a worth while mod or upgrade for the Orion 32 to push it over the top, and the tech will be current...I don't know, i've been pining for a while, and need to make a move sooner than later.
any thoughts on this would be appreciated
thanx
T
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Apr 1, 2014 23:20:41 GMT -6
If you don't also own TDM plug ins (or have budgeted for) you would NEED to go the HD Native route. The flaw in TDM is that it eats "voices" for every native plug in you want to use. So, if you're planning to use mostly native plugs, you don't want the HD3. BUT...the HD3 is the better rig if you can use mostly TDM plug ins. That's the biggest consideration, IMO--voice count, which halves at double rate AND burns through them when you use native plugs.
|
|
|
|
Post by RicFoxx on Apr 2, 2014 7:33:55 GMT -6
If you don't also own TDM plug ins (or have budgeted for) you would NEED to go the HD Native route. The flaw in TDM is that it eats "voices" for every native plug in you want to use. So, if you're planning to use mostly native plugs, you don't want the HD3. BUT...the HD3 is the better rig if you can use mostly TDM plug ins. That's the biggest consideration, IMO--voice count, which halves at double rate AND burns through them when you use native plugs. Thanks for articulating that for me, that is what I meant when writing about the voicing thing...really drove me crazy and to be honest, I really like my Apollo setup better than the HD rig. Now I know that won't work for you an it seems the orion is the fit for what you need. I would consider the Symphony as you can get the 16 in 32 out thing pieced together and it sounds wonderful or two Lynx Aurora's with one having the Thunderbolt card. |
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 2, 2014 7:54:08 GMT -6
i did a little personal shoot out a bit ago, it included the antelope orion 32, i didn't exactly flip for it, it did sound really good, the connectivity was insane! 32 analog ins/outs dsub, and great digital connectivity as well. Although i had a clear favorite, (and without getting into that too much), as a matter of point, all three of the units in the comparison sounded really good, the differences were marginal except for connectivity and price. does anyone know of a reason why getting the antelope orion would be a bad idea? all the rules in my original post apply, i figure at worst, if i dont like it over time, and something else comes along, i could always sell it and get something back out of it? The digi 192's, native core card, or HD3 cards, and being stuck at pro tools 10HD 32 bit(which is also a significant additional cost as i only have standard pt10 and 11), seems like i may be throwing quite a bit more than $3k at it? besides this, someone may come out with a worth while mod or upgrade for the Orion 32 to push it over the top, and the tech will be current...I don't know, i've been pining for a while, and need to make a move sooner than later. any thoughts on this would be appreciated thanx T I personally wouldn't buy an old, outdated, HD rig at this point in time. I know that this BLA192 blew you away, but for longevity sake, I would sacrifice a small amount of tone and get something more modern that can last you for a number of years without much worry. If you want to add a little BLA tone, you could always buy my BLA EQ and slap that across the 2 buss of your mix. Bam, there's the tone you're looking for.  |
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Apr 2, 2014 12:37:22 GMT -6
Tony,
I have been doing a bit of the same over here. Trying to figure out the most efficient and cost effective way to get the performance I need.
From my research, a native card and 192's would be the best forward looking solution. If you need more power upgrade the cpu. You are not wasting money on parts that will not support the future advancements. You dont need the zero latency monitoring since you are using a hybrid setup.
I take it that you are really looking to protools as a tape deck and automation?
PT Native is higher latency then a HD accel rig and a good bit better then firewire/usb.
Patrik
Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 2, 2014 18:16:39 GMT -6
Tony, I have been doing a bit of the same over here. Trying to figure out the most efficient and cost effective way to get the performance I need. From my research, a native card and 192's would be the best forward looking solution. If you need more power upgrade the cpu. You are not wasting money on parts that will not support the future advancements. You dont need the zero latency monitoring since you are using a hybrid setup.
I take it that you are really looking to protools as a tape deck and automation?
PT Native is higher latency then a HD accel rig and a good bit better then firewire/usb. Patrik Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2 this is pretty much it, i'll be light on plugins, and probably be using mono stems out almost exclusively, as my delta is probably the worlds only 8 buss? The problem with the 192's and the native core card, is i BELIEVE i'm stuck with pro tools 10HD with no ability to move forward...is this wrong? The other consideration is price, the rock bottom price i could get on this rig is about $1,500 for 2 digi 192's(pre bla FM mod), $1k native card, $1k pro tools 10HD, thats $600 more, or $4,600 more than the orion with the bla mods and pt10hd software being stuck permanent?
I could be wrong about all this, i've never set up a PT HD rig, but considering all of this, the Orion's looking pretty good about now even if it doesnt sound quite as nice. |
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Apr 3, 2014 6:28:56 GMT -6
The native/192 rig is not limited to pthd10. The limitation would come from your mac. As long as its a 4.1 or higher, so 2009 and above you are good to run 11.
Patrick
Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 9:09:40 GMT -6
My macpro is an up to date, current beast, fromwhat I discovered/understand, avid no longer officially supports the 192 as of pt11, and won't even sell a copy of pt11hd unless u buy new avid HD hardware with it? Their us first, closed platform mentality is really starting to wear me down after giving them my hard earned for the last 17 years. I can't dump $4-8k into a system that's unsupported, phasing out, and intentionally being sabotaged? it's like buying a used car, but someone set it up so u cant buy gas?? Apparently Avid gives a poo about nothing but getting u to buy from them again and again, spending as much $ as they can rip from u by setting up hurdles, it's un inspiring and great companies don't do this, they build loyalty through a satisfied customer base. Other nails in the coffin have been things like the lack of automatic delay compensation, ignoring the 64 bit platform for years, and bad customer service, I lived with it, and now when I'm finally set to jump up just a (64)bit, no soup fur you! Buy our hardware or stay in 32 bit, HD free land? Im a PT guy, I've defended it, I've never even used a different software, but I'm seriously checking out alternatives for the first time, honestly, I've had it, Fuck them
to be clear, the idea that I can't buy a copy of PT 11HD without buying new AVID hardware..., even though I paid for PT 10&11 and all previous incarnations, is enough to make me finally say FU
|
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 3, 2014 9:15:54 GMT -6
Apparently Avid gives a poo about nothing but getting u to buy from them again and again, spending as much $ as they can rip from u by setting up hurdles, it's un inspiring and great companies don't do this, they build loyalty through a satisfied customer base. Huh. Sounds a lot like Apple too. (Typed from my MacBook Pro that's loaded with Pro Tools.) |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 9:20:46 GMT -6
Apparently Avid gives a poo about nothing but getting u to buy from them again and again, spending as much $ as they can rip from u by setting up hurdles, it's un inspiring and great companies don't do this, they build loyalty through a satisfied customer base. Huh. Sounds a lot like Apple too. (Typed from my MacBook Pro that's loaded with Pro Tools.) I can't think of a case(could be wrong)with Apple that doesn't allow u to buy something that works with their older equipment, by forcing u to buy new? The worst thing for me with them was the switch to intel a year after I bought a power PC.... Smh |
|
, i have a practical question, i'm looking at possibly getting into a 32 DA output, and could live with as little as 16 AD inputs, i'm considering moving up to a pro tools HD rig for lack of a better native alternative, can anyone familiar with the set up tell me exactly what i need to complete this set up? I have no earthly clue how to configure this set up? from interfaces to I/O cards to pcie cards to...? I'm pretty sure i'm gonna have to pay big $ to up my waves platinum package to TDM or the new equivalent.
