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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 3, 2014 9:31:29 GMT -6
Every time that I get a new Mac, I need a new dongle to use a VGA port. $29 addition right there with every Mac. Now with the new laptops, you need a different power cable (or an adapter) than the one that they've been using for the last 10 or so years. How about Apple now soldering the RAM into their machines so that you can't upgrade through a third party? How about non user replaceable batteries in the current lineup. I can come up with a million things.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 9:45:12 GMT -6
Every time that I get a new Mac, I need a new dongle to use a VGA port. $29 addition right there with every Mac. Now with the new laptops, you need a different power cable (or an adapter) than the one that they've been using for the last 10 or so years. How about Apple now soldering the RAM into their machines so that you can't upgrade through a third party? How about non user replaceable batteries in the current lineup. I can come up with a million things. Wow! Is that stuff exclusive to lap tops? I've only ever owned g5's and macpro's. Soldered in memory!!! That sucks man! |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 3, 2014 9:49:46 GMT -6
The Retina laptops, airs, and iMacs for sure. Also, none of these machines have a built in disk drive. On my current machine, I pulled out the disk drive and stuck a 7200RPM Media Storage Drive in the bay. Can't pull that move with a new machine.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 9:49:55 GMT -6
Also, my point with pro tools 11HD, is that it works with 192's. Shit, apple will sell u anything wether it works with things or not, avid won't let me buy $1,500.00 of stand alone software, unless I buy $k's more of their hardware??? It's different I think.
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Post by popmann on Apr 3, 2014 10:31:09 GMT -6
The thing to understand is that both Avid and Apple are in the business of selling HARDWARE. 99% of profit comes from HARDWARE. They both MAKE software, obviously...but, it's to attract people to buy the hardware. I don't have any problem with this, but the consumer has to understand where bread is buttered.
My 2 year old Air will need an OS update (free or cheap) to run LogicX (cheap upgrade)....but, it barely meets minimum spec. Meaning it won't run well--they made the software to "encourage" buying new hardware.
And yes, even the new MacPros have soldered memory and SSD cards. There are some third parties who claim to be able to upgrade them-but obviously not intended to be user upgraded. I ALSO don't have an issue with that. Computers are disposable dogshit consumables. But, it's also why the only windows machine in my house is a Win7 box in the studio. Apple abandoned pro audio a good while ago. They won't make computers at all in the coming years if I had to guess. If they can get iCloud fully embedded and used, they will merge iOS and OSX into a scalable mobile platform because that's what useful to 98% of consumers. The good news is, that Microsoft is SO beholden to businesses and mission critical embedded devices throughout the world's businesses that they will retain their ability to cobble together various hardware pieces or more years than I'm likely to have left recording.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 12:15:29 GMT -6
$1,500 or more is a shit load for software, it's pure profit for them, with no skin off their teeth if their are a few paying peeps that want to go that route, they are foolish to alienate us(i've been a pt user forever, and i'm verging on inviting them to go have sex with themselves), which means i will buy 0 from them, how is that good for their business?
again, the idea that i cant buy PT 11HD stand alone, is fucking absurd.
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Post by tasteliketape on Apr 3, 2014 14:42:27 GMT -6
Ok so i have a hd2 pcix system running on a g5 I need to update but I noticed that some of the new pc had pci slots an pcie slots both
so my question can i install my old cards in the new pc and just get protools 10?
O.an keep my 192 also
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Post by popmann on Apr 3, 2014 15:18:40 GMT -6
Yes, you can put them in a PC, but they only support VERY specific PCs, so unless you buy their supported Xeon workstations (effectively mAc Pros running Windows) you're on your own. You'd be better off with an expansion chassis they support on a Mac, probabaly.
Tony-you're missing the point. It's not about your $1500 vs $0. It's about a studio's $1500 versus $15-25k. And the cost of supporting full IO compensation on third party converters.
HD is the only fully functional version of ProTools. They always only bundled that with their hardware....otherwise no one would BUY their hardware. Same business model as Apple. They bought Logic because it was the only decent music creaion software on Windows at the time when people were migrating away from Apples. So, they bought it, made it Apple only and made it CHEAP. Their $199 Logic used to be a $1500+ suite of Emagic tools. They did it so people would buy their computers. They make nothing on Logic itself. It's kind of backfired in that it's gotten Avid and MOTU and Cubase to focus on Windows. How can you compete with loss leader priced software? Anyway--that's the model of those two companies--build software people want and make it only run on their high markup hardware. They're not IN the software business for the (relatively) tiny profit they could make in software.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 15:19:03 GMT -6
Ok so i have a hd2 pcix system running on a g5 I need to update but I noticed that some of the new pc had pci slots an pcie slots both so my question can i install my old cards in the new pc and just get protools 10? O.an keep my 192 also ok, so unless i'm mistaken(i've been researching the heck out of this for the past week), since you already have PT 10HD, you can upgrade to PT 11HD no problem, and although it's officially unsupported, the digi 192 should work with PT 11HD(which you can upgrade to because you have PT 10HD). Also, if i'm correct, you can put old pci cards into a pciE slot?, its a pinout thing, but the cards operate functionally identical, it requires a magma expansion chassis to run pciE on a pci slot such as ur G5. Not sure about running PT 11 on power pc platform, i think it requires intle based CPU. hope this helps, again, this is what i understand as of now, someone else could be waaaay more qualified to chime in. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 15:32:22 GMT -6
Yes, you can put them in a PC, but they only support VERY specific PCs, so unless you buy their supported Xeon workstations (effectively mAc Pros running Windows) you're on your own. You'd be better off with an expansion chassis they support on a Mac, probabaly. Tony-you're missing the point. It's not about your $1500 vs $0. It's about a studio's $1500 versus $15-25k. And the cost of supporting full IO compensation on third party converters. HD is the only fully functional version of ProTools. They always only bundled that with their hardware....otherwise no one would BUY their hardware. Same business model as Apple. They bought Logic because it was the only decent music creaion software on Windows at the time when people were migrating away from Apples. So, they bought it, made it Apple only and made it CHEAP. Their $199 Logic used to be a $1500+ suite of Emagic tools. They did it so people would buy their computers. They make nothing on Logic itself. It's kind of backfired in that it's gotten Avid and MOTU and Cubase to focus on Windows. How can you compete with loss leader priced software? Anyway--that's the model of those two companies--build software people want and make it only run on their high markup hardware. They're not IN the software business for the (relatively) tiny profit they could make in software. thanx pop, i cant prove it, but i'd be willing to bet there are 100 guys like me willing to spend $1,500 or more on 64bit PT 11HD, for every 1 who's willing to spring for a complete PT HD system. Because such ridiculous policies and games exist with avid, they're going down fast(nasdaq listing being the first), i'm looking for alternative software for the first time, i'm just the newest on a growing list of bailouts on avid. |
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Post by RicFoxx on Apr 3, 2014 18:10:21 GMT -6
I was one of them but I moved on when I could buy the HD version of PT.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 3, 2014 22:05:27 GMT -6
On Avid ' s store they offer a PT9/10 upgrade to hd11.
Also, if you purchase a native card won't you get the software? That's my understanding.
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Post by popmann on Apr 3, 2014 22:27:52 GMT -6
You have to buy the card AND IO....and , yes it comes with software. If you have some 002 or whatever to trade in, you can get into it for $3-4k, I think with a Thunderbolt interface and Omni IO. Just add an 8x16 192...I think that gives you 16/24--short of the 32 outs he wants, I guess, but...or sell the Omni. Ever wonder why all those new IO boxes are for sale? No one but Tony WANTS Avid's IO boxes. That's actually the part most people don't like--that they make you buy an IO with the card/software. So they sell it and hook up Apogee or Lynx or whatever.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 3, 2014 22:59:33 GMT -6
You have to buy the card AND IO....and , yes it comes with software. If you have some 002 or whatever to trade in, you can get into it for $3-4k, I think with a Thunderbolt interface and Omni IO. Just add an 8x16 192...I think that gives you 16/24--short of the 32 outs he wants, I guess, but...or sell the Omni. Ever wonder why all those new IO boxes are for sale? No one but Tony WANTS Avid's IO boxes. That's actually the part most people don't like--that they make you buy an IO with the card/software. So they sell it and hook up Apogee or Lynx or whatever. lol, i'm actually all about the 192's, ever heard an FM 192 from bla? |
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Post by popmann on Apr 4, 2014 13:50:59 GMT -6
I've not. I know someone in town who loves his. But, at $10k per 8ch...I don't bother to listen. Same with Prism. I imagine since Mike passed, they dropped that, since they no longer have to pay him for selling them?
They have their own AES converters they say exceed that. You might get one for you 2 buss capture and overdubs...and use something more pedestrian to feed the board. Bang for the buck.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 4, 2014 14:31:58 GMT -6
I've not. I know someone in town who loves his. But, at $10k per 8ch...I don't bother to listen. Same with Prism. I imagine since Mike passed, they dropped that, since they no longer have to pay him for selling them? They have their own AES converters they say exceed that. You might get one for you 2 buss capture and overdubs...and use something more pedestrian to feed the board. Bang for the buck. It's still available pop, i believe you can pick up a 192 for about $700 with 8 AD ins/ and 16 DA outs, then the mod is about $2,200.00 or so with the XB clock(upgrade from FM?), if i was already a PT HD guy, id go this route. as for the second part, looks like im gonna feed the board DA with an Orion 32 on mixdowns and use it for tracking more than 10 channels at a time, i'll use my FM 002 for capturing 10 tracks or less at a time, and then i'll also use the FM 002 to AD off my 2 buss into my capture daw at mixdown, and probably get a Ross martin DA of some kind for monitoring. should be pretty simple set up, and i expect it will sound great, we'll see... |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 4, 2014 19:27:55 GMT -6
Tony, Did you have the Complete Tool Kit at any time? Even if you have an old copy you can do the upgrade to PTHD and just grab a Native card off ebay or somewhere. There is one on there for $1500 right now. The upgrade to HD will be $600 if you Have a license for CPTK.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 20:58:21 GMT -6
if you used a different DAW, you could use whatever interface you wanted with CoreAudio drivers. No reason to be tied to PT anymore...
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 4, 2014 21:38:39 GMT -6
if you used a different DAW, you could use whatever interface you wanted with CoreAudio drivers. No reason to be tied to PT anymore... Hey C, don't i know it, if you look a few posts back, u'll c i'm not exactly happy with avid over the HD thing. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 4, 2014 21:50:37 GMT -6
Tony, Did you have the Complete Tool Kit at any time? Even if you have an old copy you can do the upgrade to PTHD and just grab a Native card off ebay or somewhere. There is one on there for $1500 right now. The upgrade to HD will be $600 if you Have a license for CPTK. Never had it, i'm probably just going to stick with PT 10 and 11 for now, and go with the Orion 32, i can still record up to 10 tracks at a time at 32/96 with my FM clocked 002, and then use the orion to feed my console on mixdown, which free's up the use of the 002 to capture AD off the 2, then i'm only using the Orion for DA, which makes me 2/3 happy, then I just need to get a smoking DA for monitoring the final, maybe a ross martin of some sort? Sounds like a giant PITA, but its really not when everything's wired/normaled into my TT patchbays, a couple patch cords and i should be where i need to be in seconds...I think i posted this earlier no? mehhh  |
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