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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jul 2, 2020 21:20:31 GMT -6
Another question would be the likely hood of a blurring between iOS and macOS? The new macOS beta changes seem more setup for touch screen interfaces. It seems the ARM based macs will be able to run iOS apps without modification. For that to be even remotely workable i'd imagine that touch screen is a must. Apple will continue to look after the video and audio side. But it is not really their big money earner, if it had been the new mac pro would have been released back in 2013 instead of the trashcan. Other creative types do not need such powerful machines and touch screen for design work would be a welcome addition. I see the ARM based mac in a similar vein to the ARM based windows machines. Good for business but it will be a while before they are good for Video/Audio and other intensive workflows. How long before protools is ported to ARM? What about plugin manufacturers? Then their is drivers for hardware on top of the thunderbolt situation..... Avid will port to PT as soon as they can, they know there is as much loyalty on the audio side to Mac as PT. The bigger question is how long before your interface works on ARM? Yes I'm sure Avid will, but aren't exactly speedy getting out their 10.XX updates and a new architecture is a lot more work. How long "if ever" for some interfaces.... RME is probably a safe bet being all in house developement.
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Post by cyrano on Jul 7, 2020 1:38:53 GMT -6
Any USB audio class compliant interface will work out of the box. RME PCIe works, fi.
As for the others, it will depend on the manufacturers developers. They've got some studying to do...
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Post by javamad on Jul 17, 2020 6:19:30 GMT -6
Except “playable” is their word for “must have big buffer” becuase its what allows you to PLAY a line on a keyboard and it come out sounding like it was played on a violin. Think about it this way—a lookahead limiter will ALWAYS require latency....no matter if you have a CPU time machined from 2030....becuase it needs linear time to look ahead in the audio stream. Right? Now, becuase thats an audio plug in, it INDUCES it into the DAW....i mean technically it tells the DAW it needs 10ms, the DAW makes itself 10ms more latent to allow that....capice? If not....im not sure how to explain the next part. Spitfire’s input scripting needs linear time to establish musical context between notes. No computer that will ever be made will be able to run them at a 128 buffer. 128@ 48khz equals a certain linear time. It varies a little by app...by sound card, etc....and thats not enough linear time. 256 at 48 might be....but, 512 is where it will start to run glitch free. IME. Double those for HD, and increase them SOME for 44.1, since Spitfire is all 48khz native samples. So, 44.1 will require a resampling routine during the buffer, as well (as obviously any HD will).... So, if you bought the BBC and it doesnt run well at 128 on your 2012 macbook (what you think you need to play a VI at) , Im saying it wont run better on a new $10k mac Pro with RME PCIe. You need to increase the buffer size. You're not running out of CPU DSP time when the meter “overs”, youre running out of linear time. Now....if you think 512 is too latent to play....well, then....THAT might change with a RME PCIe card....but, its app dependent, too. But, that also touches on needing to understand what the DSP meter in a DAW means and how virtual instruments throw that WAY outside what it was intended for....do, you understand that the meter in your DAW is not a CPU usage meter? Even logic’s that breaks it out into cores.... I have no issue putting it to 512 ... or even more for mix down... I do stil get some dropouts, perhaps due to those time delays lining up the articulations. It certainly sounds great but I think the processor, memory bus speeds and general motherboard bandwidth on my 2012 MBP just isn’t up to the work.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 5, 2020 15:23:02 GMT -6
Any thoughts about the new iMac that dropped yesterday?
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Post by howie on Aug 5, 2020 17:07:03 GMT -6
New iMac can get you 10 cores Intel i9 processsor in it's top of the line option - for about the same $$$$ as my 2019 imac 8 core i9 - and My 2019 iMac runs cool and quiet enough on my (not huge) projects. I assume this will too.
I believe you have to run OSX Catalina 10.5 on it - not earlier OSX. also it has the T2 security chip - I remember that causing some headaches in the past synching music equipment with the mac mini - I read a year or so ago. Has that been resolved?
I wonder what deal you can get on last years iMac Pro now Refurb? - or last years iMac 8 core i9 (without the T2 chip - and you also won't have to to use Catalina OSX?
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Post by ragan on Sept 19, 2020 15:31:52 GMT -6
Just pulled the trigger on a new iMac. Went with the i7 8-Core since DAW load testing over at GS shows it to perform about identically to the i9 10-Core except it runs ~10 degrees cooler. I'm sure the i9 10-Core offers some benefit in video contexts (which I don't do). Got a 1TB internal SSD and ordered 64GB RAM and a 2TB external SSD from OWC.
Should be a significant performance increase from my 2011 iMac with 16GB RAM, spinner internal drive and FW spinner external audio drive. That machine has been a stalwart, and still runs great if I hadn't started using lots more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, etc). But I bog it down pretty hard the last couple of years.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 21, 2020 2:43:27 GMT -6
Just pulled the trigger on a new iMac. Went with the i7 8-Core since DAW load testing over at GS shows it to perform about identically to the i9 10-Core except it runs ~10 degrees cooler. I'm sure the i9 10-Core offers some benefit in video contexts (which I don't do). Got a 1TB internal SSD and ordered 64GB RAM and a 2TB external SSD from OWC. Should be a significant performance increase from my 2011 iMac with 16GB RAM, spinner internal drive and FW spinner external audio drive. That machine has been a stalwart, and still runs great if I hadn't started using lots more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, etc). But I bog it down pretty hard the last couple of years. i7 over the i9 eh? I guess I had never even considered not upgrading the processor.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 21, 2020 2:58:24 GMT -6
If you don’t need the vid performance, I think Ragan sussed this well!
Also, with iMac, the drop in operating temperature is money in the bank for longevity.
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Post by ragan on Sept 21, 2020 8:35:53 GMT -6
Just pulled the trigger on a new iMac. Went with the i7 8-Core since DAW load testing over at GS shows it to perform about identically to the i9 10-Core except it runs ~10 degrees cooler. I'm sure the i9 10-Core offers some benefit in video contexts (which I don't do). Got a 1TB internal SSD and ordered 64GB RAM and a 2TB external SSD from OWC. Should be a significant performance increase from my 2011 iMac with 16GB RAM, spinner internal drive and FW spinner external audio drive. That machine has been a stalwart, and still runs great if I hadn't started using lots more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, etc). But I bog it down pretty hard the last couple of years. i7 over the i9 eh? I guess I had never even considered not upgrading the processor. Well, it’s still ‘upgrading the processor’. The top spec version just has two options, the i7 8-Core or the i9 10-Core. The i7 8-Core got the same amount of tracks/load in the tests on GS as the i9 did, but it did it with slightly higher sustained clock speeds and running cooler. So for what I need (just DAW work) it performed slightly better, though they’re basically tied.
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Post by svart on Sept 21, 2020 8:40:57 GMT -6
I'd still like to know why a lot of you guys need to continuously upgrade. I'm still running a second generation I5 with 16GB of ram and I've usually got 40 or so tracks and all kinds of plugs running with no hiccups during mixing. The only thing I've ever had to do is turn off reverbs during tracking to avoid the occasional blip.
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Post by ragan on Sept 21, 2020 8:56:17 GMT -6
I'd still like to know why a lot of you guys need to continuously upgrade. I'm still running a second generation I5 with 16GB of ram and I've usually got 40 or so tracks and all kinds of plugs running with no hiccups during mixing. The only thing I've ever had to do is turn off reverbs during tracking to avoid the occasional blip. That’s great. I wouldn’t say I “continuously” upgrade. I’m coming from a 2011 iMac. Just about a decade on that machine. It still runs great, but since moving into more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, B5, etc) it bogs down. If I was still just using ‘regular’ plugins and not all those VIs, I wouldn’t need a new machine.
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Post by svart on Sept 21, 2020 9:04:30 GMT -6
I'd still like to know why a lot of you guys need to continuously upgrade. I'm still running a second generation I5 with 16GB of ram and I've usually got 40 or so tracks and all kinds of plugs running with no hiccups during mixing. The only thing I've ever had to do is turn off reverbs during tracking to avoid the occasional blip. That’s great. I wouldn’t say I “continuously” upgrade. I’m coming from a 2011 iMac. Just about a decade on that machine. It still runs great, but since moving into more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, B5, etc) it bogs down. If I was still just using ‘regular’ plugins and not all those VIs, I wouldn’t need a new machine. I see. It wasn't necessarily directed at you, but I do see a lot of folks upgrading quite a bit. I've had a number of folks come through the studio with their own macs and they've given me folders full of tracks that I import and run with ease while their year-old mac can't do it. Maybe it's because I run really a old version of Win7 and haven't updated anything. It seems that the more modern the OS and the more updates, the more horsepower folks need just to do basic stuff. Or maybe I'm just lucky or something.
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Post by ragan on Sept 21, 2020 9:25:17 GMT -6
That’s great. I wouldn’t say I “continuously” upgrade. I’m coming from a 2011 iMac. Just about a decade on that machine. It still runs great, but since moving into more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, B5, etc) it bogs down. If I was still just using ‘regular’ plugins and not all those VIs, I wouldn’t need a new machine. I see. It wasn't necessarily directed at you, but I do see a lot of folks upgrading quite a bit. I've had a number of folks come through the studio with their own macs and they've given me folders full of tracks that I import and run with ease while their year-old mac can't do it. Maybe it's because I run really a old version of Win7 and haven't updated anything. It seems that the more modern the OS and the more updates, the more horsepower folks need just to do basic stuff. Or maybe I'm just lucky or something. Aren't you using Reaper too? That has a reputation for being extremely efficient (which is great). And I'd hazard a guess that with a Win7/Reaper machine you might be using some older plugs that are pretty light on the CPU? Either way, if it ain't broke... I need the horsepower for my workflow these days. I was also keen to move to all SSD (my 2011 iMac is a spinner internal HDD and I'm using a spinner external drive for audio). I didn't feel like putting money into upgrading the internal to an SSD in a decade-old machine.
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Post by svart on Sept 21, 2020 9:31:45 GMT -6
I see. It wasn't necessarily directed at you, but I do see a lot of folks upgrading quite a bit. I've had a number of folks come through the studio with their own macs and they've given me folders full of tracks that I import and run with ease while their year-old mac can't do it. Maybe it's because I run really a old version of Win7 and haven't updated anything. It seems that the more modern the OS and the more updates, the more horsepower folks need just to do basic stuff. Or maybe I'm just lucky or something. Aren't you using Reaper too? That has a reputation for being extremely efficient (which is great). And I'd hazard a guess that with a Win7/Reaper machine you might be using some older plugs that are pretty light on the CPU? Either way, if it ain't broke... I need the horsepower for my workflow these days. I was also keen to move to all SSD (my 2011 iMac is a spinner internal HDD and I'm using a spinner external drive for audio). I didn't feel like putting money into upgrading the internal to an SSD in a decade-old machine. Using Reaper 5 right now. I have the latest Waves plugs, plus a few dozen random plugs from other places plus the stock ones in Reaper. I did replace the main drive with a SSD a while ago and besides booting a lot faster, I hadn't noticed any difference in overall speed since my data is still on secondary spinny drives. I suppose that could also help since the system isn't necessarily limited by trying to stream the data and cache it on the same drive meaning it wouldn't take multiple reads and writes to do certain things..
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 21, 2020 9:49:43 GMT -6
i7 over the i9 eh? I guess I had never even considered not upgrading the processor. Well, it’s still ‘upgrading the processor’. The top spec version just has two options, the i7 8-Core or the i9 10-Core. The i7 8-Core got the same amount of tracks/load in the tests on GS as the i9 did, but it did it with slightly higher sustained clock speeds and running cooler. So for what I need (just DAW work) it performed slightly better, though they’re basically tied. Ah, just read that thread now. You had a valid question that never got answered, though. This test was done in Logic. Would the results be the same in a different DAW?
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Post by ragan on Sept 21, 2020 10:06:35 GMT -6
Well, it’s still ‘upgrading the processor’. The top spec version just has two options, the i7 8-Core or the i9 10-Core. The i7 8-Core got the same amount of tracks/load in the tests on GS as the i9 did, but it did it with slightly higher sustained clock speeds and running cooler. So for what I need (just DAW work) it performed slightly better, though they’re basically tied. Ah, just read that thread now. You had a valid question that never got answered, though. This test was done in Logic. Would the results be the same in a different DAW? Right, yeah. I don't know enough about how PT handles cores vs Logic (and don't have time to learn right now). Apple's return policy is easy enough that I wanted to get the i7 on the way and see how it does. There have been a lot of other bench tests on this new iMac that show the i7 and i9 being about neck-and-neck (some tasks like video renders show the i9 having about 5% more juice) so I think it's pretty likely that the Logic test is relatively representative for DAW work in general. But we'll see when I get the machine how it does. I'm jumping like 8 generations of Intel chip and watching the development over the last decade I think I should be in for a major performance boost.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 21, 2020 10:29:44 GMT -6
Ah, just read that thread now. You had a valid question that never got answered, though. This test was done in Logic. Would the results be the same in a different DAW? Right, yeah. I don't know enough about how PT handles cores vs Logic (and don't have time to learn right now). Apple's return policy is easy enough that I wanted to get the i7 on the way and see how it does. There have been a lot of other bench tests on this new iMac that show the i7 and i9 being about neck-and-neck (some tasks like video renders show the i9 having about 5% more juice) so I think it's pretty likely that the Logic test is relatively representative for DAW work in general. But we'll see when I get the machine how it does. I'm jumping like 8 generations of Intel chip and watching the development over the last decade I think I should be in for a major performance boost. Keep me posted. I definitely am in need of a computer upgrade (2012 Mac Mini), but I'm dragging my feet. Dropping money on computers is not my thing.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 21, 2020 11:58:53 GMT -6
A buddy just got a new mini, , he had a cheese grater before, he got an Apollo X twin so now running tbolt and his rme into the twin on adat.
I have been chatting to him about the mini, as I am on a 2012 mbp, 2 ssd’s but like Ragan running more vi and having some processing problems.
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Post by Ned Ward on Sept 23, 2020 18:36:59 GMT -6
Aren't you using Reaper too? That has a reputation for being extremely efficient (which is great). And I'd hazard a guess that with a Win7/Reaper machine you might be using some older plugs that are pretty light on the CPU? Either way, if it ain't broke... I need the horsepower for my workflow these days. I was also keen to move to all SSD (my 2011 iMac is a spinner internal HDD and I'm using a spinner external drive for audio). I didn't feel like putting money into upgrading the internal to an SSD in a decade-old machine. Using Reaper 5 right now. I have the latest Waves plugs, plus a few dozen random plugs from other places plus the stock ones in Reaper. I did replace the main drive with a SSD a while ago and besides booting a lot faster, I hadn't noticed any difference in overall speed since my data is still on secondary spinny drives. I suppose that could also help since the system isn't necessarily limited by trying to stream the data and cache it on the same drive meaning it wouldn't take multiple reads and writes to do certain things.. My guess is that people who are constantly upgrading may not be owning/operating studios, but composers/home recordists who need more power. Think of how many cheese graters and PT 10HD rigs are still churning out great hits... For future-proofing (as much as I can) I'm buying USB-C drives and interfaces; both work fine with a USB-A adapter on my 2013 MBP, but when I upgrade, I know my gear will work. For those looking, macmall is selling reconditioned 2018 Mac minis for $750. Add 32, 48 or 64 GB RAM and you've got a serious Pro Tools (or whatever your DAW) machine...
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Post by sirthought on Sept 24, 2020 5:03:15 GMT -6
For those looking, macmall is selling reconditioned 2018 Mac minis for $750. Add 32, 48 or 64 GB RAM and you've got a serious Pro Tools (or whatever your DAW) machine... I can't find this offer on their website. Do you have a link by chance?
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Post by Ned Ward on Sept 24, 2020 11:01:08 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 12:38:32 GMT -6
Aren't you using Reaper too? That has a reputation for being extremely efficient (which is great). And I'd hazard a guess that with a Win7/Reaper machine you might be using some older plugs that are pretty light on the CPU? Either way, if it ain't broke... I need the horsepower for my workflow these days. I was also keen to move to all SSD (my 2011 iMac is a spinner internal HDD and I'm using a spinner external drive for audio). I didn't feel like putting money into upgrading the internal to an SSD in a decade-old machine. Using Reaper 5 right now. I have the latest Waves plugs, plus a few dozen random plugs from other places plus the stock ones in Reaper. I did replace the main drive with a SSD a while ago and besides booting a lot faster, I hadn't noticed any difference in overall speed since my data is still on secondary spinny drives. I suppose that could also help since the system isn't necessarily limited by trying to stream the data and cache it on the same drive meaning it wouldn't take multiple reads and writes to do certain things.. Once you start getting into the crazier and more accurate oversampled stuff on every track (Tape emulations like the uhe and Goodhertz ones, console plugs, 4-64x oversampled compressors like Trackcomp and Kotelnikov, natural phase eqs, Shattered glass tube plugs, etc) it’s easier to run out of cpu before ram. VSTis are more ram dependent and very easily can bring down a session. I’m freezing all the time on my 12 gb ram laptop and need a new desktop. old MacBook pros from when they came with 5400 rpm hard drives would shit out with pro tools all the time
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 26, 2020 15:58:31 GMT -6
That’s great. I wouldn’t say I “continuously” upgrade. I’m coming from a 2011 iMac. Just about a decade on that machine. It still runs great, but since moving into more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, B5, etc) it bogs down. If I was still just using ‘regular’ plugins and not all those VIs, I wouldn’t need a new machine. I see. It wasn't necessarily directed at you, but I do see a lot of folks upgrading quite a bit. I've had a number of folks come through the studio with their own macs and they've given me folders full of tracks that I import and run with ease while their year-old mac can't do it. Maybe it's because I run really a old version of Win7 and haven't updated anything. It seems that the more modern the OS and the more updates, the more horsepower folks need just to do basic stuff. Or maybe I'm just lucky or something. Try Ableton Live 10 with multiple instances of kontakt open and 60-70 plugins running (many of which are oversampling). I have a 2015 MBP i7 and I'm dying to upgrade from it but I don't want a giant iMac and I dont want to buy last years Macbook pro or Mac Mini. I'm hoping they upgrade the Mac Mini soon or the MBP.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 6:33:59 GMT -6
Just pulled the trigger on a new iMac. Went with the i7 8-Core since DAW load testing over at GS shows it to perform about identically to the i9 10-Core except it runs ~10 degrees cooler. I'm sure the i9 10-Core offers some benefit in video contexts (which I don't do). Got a 1TB internal SSD and ordered 64GB RAM and a 2TB external SSD from OWC. Should be a significant performance increase from my 2011 iMac with 16GB RAM, spinner internal drive and FW spinner external audio drive. That machine has been a stalwart, and still runs great if I hadn't started using lots more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, etc). But I bog it down pretty hard the last couple of years. Did you get this yet? Thinking about pulling the trigger on either the i7 or i9. There's a 20% off AppleCare offer on edu pricing till the 12th. Oh, and free Air Pods. I'm just draaaaging my feet on this. I know I need one, so I might as well do it now and save a few bucks.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 7, 2020 7:50:33 GMT -6
I wish the Mac Mini had better graphics card options. I’ve considered the whole eGPU thing, but it always seems like it introduces a potential problem area or bottleneck. I’ve just never been a huge fan of the all-in-one, plus I already use a 32” screen, so an iMac feels like a backwards move for me, screen-wise. Arrrggghh.
My old Mac Pro is finally starting to give me problems, so I need to get ready to jump.
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