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Post by ragan on Oct 7, 2020 8:44:43 GMT -6
Just pulled the trigger on a new iMac. Went with the i7 8-Core since DAW load testing over at GS shows it to perform about identically to the i9 10-Core except it runs ~10 degrees cooler. I'm sure the i9 10-Core offers some benefit in video contexts (which I don't do). Got a 1TB internal SSD and ordered 64GB RAM and a 2TB external SSD from OWC. Should be a significant performance increase from my 2011 iMac with 16GB RAM, spinner internal drive and FW spinner external audio drive. That machine has been a stalwart, and still runs great if I hadn't started using lots more virtual instruments (SD3, Keyscape, Diva, etc). But I bog it down pretty hard the last couple of years. Did you get this yet? Thinking about pulling the trigger on either the i7 or i9. There's a 20% off AppleCare offer on edu pricing till the 12th. Oh, and free Air Pods. I'm just draaaaging my feet on this. I know I need one, so I might as well do it now and save a few bucks. I did get it. I haven’t done any audio stuff with it yet because of school but I have migrated stuff over to it and have most of my software downloaded. Still waiting on SD3 libraries (hundreds of GB on a mediocre DSL connection). Also had to take some time getting my deep learning environment up and running for Machine Learning. Anyway, no audio yet but I have been using it. It’s a stunner. Blazing fast, gorgeous aesthetics, silent, cool. My 2011 maxed iMac was a furnace. Once I have the SD3 stuff downloaded I’ll fire up PT and see what this thing can do.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 9:02:45 GMT -6
I wish the Mac Mini had better graphics card options. I’ve considered the whole eGPU thing, but it always seems like it introduces a potential problem area or bottleneck. I’ve just never been a huge fan of the all-in-one, plus I already use a 32” screen, so an iMac feels like a backwards move for me, screen-wise. Arrrggghh. My old Mac Pro is finally starting to give me problems, so I need to get ready to jump. I feel you. I have an LG ultrawide screen, so I don't really need a screen, but I think the mac mini trying to drive that thing is part of the problem. I also don't mind trying to sell my old mac mini and ultra wide screen to help offset the cost of an iMac. The Ultrawide is sort of a beast. I thought about a dual monitor setup, but I don't know if I have the real estate for that.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2020 9:21:55 GMT -6
So what I’m hearing once again is we really have a need for a Mac Mini pro! Something like a 1 rack unit machine real cooling no throttling and real graphics! If they could give us one PCIE slot even better!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 7, 2020 9:39:29 GMT -6
Did you get this yet? Thinking about pulling the trigger on either the i7 or i9. There's a 20% off AppleCare offer on edu pricing till the 12th. Oh, and free Air Pods. I'm just draaaaging my feet on this. I know I need one, so I might as well do it now and save a few bucks. I did get it. I haven’t done any audio stuff with it yet because of school but I have migrated stuff over to it and have most of my software downloaded. Still waiting on SD3 libraries (hundreds of GB on a mediocre DSL connection). Also had to take some time getting my deep learning environment up and running for Machine Learning. Anyway, no audio yet but I have been using it. It’s a stunner. Blazing fast, gorgeous aesthetics, silent, cool. My 2011 maxed iMac was a furnace. Once I have the SD3 stuff downloaded I’ll fire up PT and see what this thing can do. I might go this route too.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2020 9:48:11 GMT -6
I did get it. I haven’t done any audio stuff with it yet because of school but I have migrated stuff over to it and have most of my software downloaded. Still waiting on SD3 libraries (hundreds of GB on a mediocre DSL connection). Also had to take some time getting my deep learning environment up and running for Machine Learning. Anyway, no audio yet but I have been using it. It’s a stunner. Blazing fast, gorgeous aesthetics, silent, cool. My 2011 maxed iMac was a furnace. Once I have the SD3 stuff downloaded I’ll fire up PT and see what this thing can do. I might go this route too. The only good thing about no work because of Covid is I can wait for the next generation with ARM chips. Though I keep looking at I5 Mac mini for a simple media server.
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Post by svart on Oct 7, 2020 9:55:11 GMT -6
I'm still on the fence about blowing up my studio and going mostly ITB like I was discussing in there other thread. I've been doing more research and I still just don't see the need to go super high end cpu, so I'm either going really fast i5 (4 core) or average i7 (4 core).
I'm still trucking alone with a gen 4 i5 3.3Ghz and 16gb of RAM.
Current project in working with has 75 tracks and busses, probably 20 instances of crave EQ, 15 of cla76/3A, 20 or so of other waves and random plugs like soothe, valhalla room, plus a handful of reaper stock plugs as well as a few instances of STL tonality amp sims and a couple IR loaders going and I have no issues at all.
I've been eyeing some of the higher end HP envy laptops for this. I have a mid level envy with ryzen 5 as my daily driver and it's been a great laptop.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 10:29:09 GMT -6
Did you get this yet? Thinking about pulling the trigger on either the i7 or i9. There's a 20% off AppleCare offer on edu pricing till the 12th. Oh, and free Air Pods. I'm just draaaaging my feet on this. I know I need one, so I might as well do it now and save a few bucks. I did get it. I haven’t done any audio stuff with it yet because of school but I have migrated stuff over to it and have most of my software downloaded. Still waiting on SD3 libraries (hundreds of GB on a mediocre DSL connection). Also had to take some time getting my deep learning environment up and running for Machine Learning. Anyway, no audio yet but I have been using it. It’s a stunner. Blazing fast, gorgeous aesthetics, silent, cool. My 2011 maxed iMac was a furnace. Once I have the SD3 stuff downloaded I’ll fire up PT and see what this thing can do. You really think i7 is the way to go here? Hoping to not have to do this again for as long as I can.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 7, 2020 10:51:57 GMT -6
I'm still on the fence about blowing up my studio and going mostly ITB like I was discussing in there other thread. I've been doing more research and I still just don't see the need to go super high end cpu, so I'm either going really fast i5 (4 core) or average i7 (4 core). I'm still trucking alone with a gen 4 i5 3.3Ghz and 16gb of RAM. Current project in working with has 75 tracks and busses, probably 20 instances of crave EQ, 15 of cla76/3A, 20 or so of other waves and random plugs like soothe, valhalla room, plus a handful of reaper stock plugs as well as a few instances of STL tonality amp sims and a couple IR loaders going and I have no issues at all. I've been eyeing some of the higher end HP envy laptops for this. I have a mid level envy with ryzen 5 as my daily driver and it's been a great laptop. That’s cool bye resting. You think I could go i5 6 core with like 32gb ram and smoke this 2012 i7 4 core with 16gb ram?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 11:11:40 GMT -6
Virtual instruments eat ram, high end plugins eat CPU.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 7, 2020 11:40:40 GMT -6
So - I just measured my 2012 i7 Mac Mini 4 core with 16gb ram...it scores a 2495 on the multi core benchmark. A new (I assume baseline) 2018 Mac Mini i5 scores 4635. That seems like a substantial upgrade. I mean - I'm cool with what I've got, but it would be awesome to render things faster and have more power under the hood. The 2012 maxes at 16gb. So I'm wondering if the i5 with 32gb RAM wouldn't be a killer machine for what I do.
My wife has a 2019 Macbook Pro i5 and it scored 3962. I could use that and get her a smaller computer as she doesn't really need that much computing power. But it also only has two TB ports and would require a hub.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 11:41:17 GMT -6
I wish the Mac Mini had better graphics card options. I’ve considered the whole eGPU thing, but it always seems like it introduces a potential problem area or bottleneck. I’ve just never been a huge fan of the all-in-one, plus I already use a 32” screen, so an iMac feels like a backwards move for me, screen-wise. Arrrggghh. My old Mac Pro is finally starting to give me problems, so I need to get ready to jump. Are you considering an iMac? Which graphics card would you spring for?
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 12:02:57 GMT -6
So - I just measured my 2012 i7 Mac Mini 4 core with 16gb ram...it scores a 2495 on the multi core benchmark. A new (I assume baseline) 2018 Mac Mini i5 scores 4635. That seems like a substantial upgrade. I mean - I'm cool with what I've got, but it would be awesome to render things faster and have more power under the hood. The 2012 maxes at 16gb. So I'm wondering if the i5 with 32gb RAM wouldn't be a killer machine for what I do. My wife has a 2019 Macbook Pro i5 and it scored 3962. I could use that and get her a smaller computer as she doesn't really need that much computing power. But it also only has two TB ports and would require a hub. Here's a question: for typical audio work, does that make use of multi core computing power? Or is it all single core?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2020 16:11:09 GMT -6
So - I just measured my 2012 i7 Mac Mini 4 core with 16gb ram...it scores a 2495 on the multi core benchmark. A new (I assume baseline) 2018 Mac Mini i5 scores 4635. That seems like a substantial upgrade. I mean - I'm cool with what I've got, but it would be awesome to render things faster and have more power under the hood. The 2012 maxes at 16gb. So I'm wondering if the i5 with 32gb RAM wouldn't be a killer machine for what I do. My wife has a 2019 Macbook Pro i5 and it scored 3962. I could use that and get her a smaller computer as she doesn't really need that much computing power. But it also only has two TB ports and would require a hub. Here's a question: for typical audio work, does that make use of multi core computing power? Or is it all single core? You won’t like this but the answer is it depends on your choice of DAW and plugins as well as VIs.
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Post by svart on Oct 7, 2020 16:16:16 GMT -6
So - I just measured my 2012 i7 Mac Mini 4 core with 16gb ram...it scores a 2495 on the multi core benchmark. A new (I assume baseline) 2018 Mac Mini i5 scores 4635. That seems like a substantial upgrade. I mean - I'm cool with what I've got, but it would be awesome to render things faster and have more power under the hood. The 2012 maxes at 16gb. So I'm wondering if the i5 with 32gb RAM wouldn't be a killer machine for what I do. My wife has a 2019 Macbook Pro i5 and it scored 3962. I could use that and get her a smaller computer as she doesn't really need that much computing power. But it also only has two TB ports and would require a hub. Here's a question: for typical audio work, does that make use of multi core computing power? Or is it all single core? I don't think many have efficient multithread capability and I don't think many have multicore management either. Audio editing doesn't have much need for multiple pipelines overall. I think it's mostly the DAW that orchestrates how plugins are handled.
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Post by svart on Oct 7, 2020 16:21:20 GMT -6
Virtual instruments eat ram, high end plugins eat CPU. [br Personally I don't use VIs. If I did, I'd probably use another machine specifically for instruments. What's a high end plugin for example? I'm not sure anything I'm using is considered high end.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 17:23:42 GMT -6
Virtual instruments eat ram, high end plugins eat CPU. [br Personally I don't use VIs. If I did, I'd probably use another machine specifically for instruments. What's a high end plugin for example? I'm not sure anything I'm using is considered high end. Extensive algorithms and oversampling eat CPU. The "optional" oversampling is necessary for sidechains and gainstaging imo with a lot of plugins. The aliasing compounds and can be brought up.
U-he Satin and synths eat cpu.
Shattered glass tube plugs.
Some of the newer Waves plugins like TG12345, Hi Reverb, and Mixhub. Goodhertz plugins. DMG Trackcomp and Equilibrium Plugin Alliance consoles. Especially Lindell 80 oversampled to sound good. Cytomic at high oversampling to make it sound great. 16x linear phase and The Glue starts beating DMG Trackcomp.
Right now I'm just using Satin and the Goodhertz limiter and reverb a lot. I have to freeze all the time with Satin and need to build a desktop.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 17:45:01 GMT -6
[br Personally I don't use VIs. If I did, I'd probably use another machine specifically for instruments. What's a high end plugin for example? I'm not sure anything I'm using is considered high end. Extensive algorithms and oversampling eat CPU. Oversampling is necessary for sidechains and gainstaging imo. The aliasing compounds and can be brought up.
U-he Satin and synths eat cpu.
Shattered Glass tube plugins Some of the newer Waves plugins like TG12345, Hi Reverb, and Mixhub. Goodhertz plugins. DMG Trackcomp and Equilibrium Plugin Alliance consoles. Especially Lindell 80 oversampled to sound good. Cytomic at high oversampling to make it sound great. 16x linear phase and The Glue starts beating DMG Trackcomp.
Right now I'm just using Satin and the Goodhertz limiter and reverb a lot. I have to freeze all the time with Satin and need to build a desktop.
When you say ‘eat CPU’, do you mean single or multi core? That’s the catch, right? Eric referred to it being DAW and plugin specific. So, what’s a guy to do? Do I prioritize single core performance and go with the i7? Or prioritize multi core performance and go with the i9? That seems to be the differentiator between these two processors.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 7, 2020 17:52:42 GMT -6
Knowing which to prioritize (single vs multi core) would also point to which Geekbench scores I should be paying more attention to.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2020 18:05:34 GMT -6
Extensive algorithms and oversampling eat CPU. Oversampling is necessary for sidechains and gainstaging imo. The aliasing compounds and can be brought up.
U-he Satin and synths eat cpu.
Shattered Glass tube plugins Some of the newer Waves plugins like TG12345, Hi Reverb, and Mixhub. Goodhertz plugins. DMG Trackcomp and Equilibrium Plugin Alliance consoles. Especially Lindell 80 oversampled to sound good. Cytomic at high oversampling to make it sound great. 16x linear phase and The Glue starts beating DMG Trackcomp.
Right now I'm just using Satin and the Goodhertz limiter and reverb a lot. I have to freeze all the time with Satin and need to build a desktop.
When you say ‘eat CPU’, do you mean single or multi core? That’s the catch, right? Eric referred to it being DAW and plugin specific. So, what’s a guy to do? Do I prioritize single core performance and go with the i7? Or prioritize multi core performance and go with the i9? That seems to be the differentiator between these two processors. This where I admit to missing the old gig and having the resources with all the DAW manufacturers as well as being paid to play around. I’m sorry I can’t give definitive answer. Honestly this would be great subject for TapeOp to take a deep dive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 18:25:19 GMT -6
All I know is that Satin on every track, neural modeled amp sims my laptops can't even run, DMG trackcomp 2 oversampled to all hell, and some of the newer Waves plugs bring down a lot of consumer desktops. No idea of the technicalities. AMD also has worse single core and low buffer performance than Intel ime.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 7, 2020 20:33:24 GMT -6
Extensive algorithms and oversampling eat CPU. Oversampling is necessary for sidechains and gainstaging imo. The aliasing compounds and can be brought up.
U-he Satin and synths eat cpu.
Shattered Glass tube plugins Some of the newer Waves plugins like TG12345, Hi Reverb, and Mixhub. Goodhertz plugins. DMG Trackcomp and Equilibrium Plugin Alliance consoles. Especially Lindell 80 oversampled to sound good. Cytomic at high oversampling to make it sound great. 16x linear phase and The Glue starts beating DMG Trackcomp.
Right now I'm just using Satin and the Goodhertz limiter and reverb a lot. I have to freeze all the time with Satin and need to build a desktop.
When you say ‘eat CPU’, do you mean single or multi core? That’s the catch, right? Eric referred to it being DAW and plugin specific. So, what’s a guy to do? Do I prioritize single core performance and go with the i7? Or prioritize multi core performance and go with the i9? That seems to be the differentiator between these two processors. Knowing which to prioritize (single vs multi core) would also point to which Geekbench scores I should be paying more attention to. Generally speaking, for DAW use, the single core clock speed tends to be more important. There are some exceptions to this, and some DAWs are better than others at multithreading. Even the ones that are relatively better at multithreading sometimes require using the DAW in ways that are not entirely obvious. Logic, for instance, is pretty decent with load balancing these days, but you have to pay attention to how you set things up. Personally, I would prefer an i7 with higher clock speed to an i9 (or Xeon) with more cores but lower clock speed. You could have a 12-core machine, but if you spike one whole core with a virtual instrument, you'll have 11 threads sitting there doing nothing. There are other use cases where more cores but lower clock speeds may be better - it depends on the software being used.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 7, 2020 20:46:51 GMT -6
I wish the Mac Mini had better graphics card options. I’ve considered the whole eGPU thing, but it always seems like it introduces a potential problem area or bottleneck. I’ve just never been a huge fan of the all-in-one, plus I already use a 32” screen, so an iMac feels like a backwards move for me, screen-wise. Arrrggghh. My old Mac Pro is finally starting to give me problems, so I need to get ready to jump. Are you considering an iMac? Which graphics card would you spring for? I feel like my case is kind of complicated. A lot of moving parts to the system for me right now. The 2020 iMac really does look to be a fabulous machine. If you go with an i7, even the base GPU (Radeon Pro 5500 XT 8GB) is a pretty decent GPU for video editing: it's at least 10% faster than the GPU I use in my classic Mac Pro now (a Radeon Pro 580). The next two levels up for GPU choice from there are quite nice upgrades, though (5700 8GB and 5700 XT 16GB). And I wouldn't be worried about the GPU at all if I weren't doing video editing. DAWs just aren't going to require much oomph out of a GPU. Even the integrated Intel GPU in the 2018 Mac Mini should be totally fine for DAWs. In video-land, I'm getting weary of making color grading changes to a layer and then sitting there for 30 secs while the changes render before I hit play again. And this is at 1080p, not even 4k. The future with regards to Apple Silicon is becoming the monkey in the wrench for me.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2020 21:14:59 GMT -6
Are you considering an iMac? Which graphics card would you spring for? I feel like my case is kind of complicated. A lot of moving parts to the system for me right now. The 2020 iMac really does look to be a fabulous machine. If you go with an i7, even the base GPU (Radeon Pro 5500 XT 8GB) is a pretty decent GPU for video editing: it's at least 10% faster than the GPU I use in my classic Mac Pro now (a Radeon Pro 580). The next two levels up for GPU choice from there are quite nice upgrades, though (5700 8GB and 5700 XT 16GB). And I wouldn't be worried about the GPU at all if I weren't doing video editing. DAWs just aren't going to require much oomph out of a GPU. Even the integrated Intel GPU in the 2018 Mac Mini should be totally fine for DAWs. In video-land, I'm getting weary of making color grading changes to a layer and then sitting there for 30 secs while the changes render before I hit play again. And this is at 1080p, not even 4k. The future with regards to Apple Silicon is becoming the monkey in the wrench for me. It looks like a great machine, it’s just how long will everyone support intel macs? That is the very expensive question.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 7, 2020 23:15:03 GMT -6
I feel like my case is kind of complicated. A lot of moving parts to the system for me right now. The 2020 iMac really does look to be a fabulous machine. If you go with an i7, even the base GPU (Radeon Pro 5500 XT 8GB) is a pretty decent GPU for video editing: it's at least 10% faster than the GPU I use in my classic Mac Pro now (a Radeon Pro 580). The next two levels up for GPU choice from there are quite nice upgrades, though (5700 8GB and 5700 XT 16GB). And I wouldn't be worried about the GPU at all if I weren't doing video editing. DAWs just aren't going to require much oomph out of a GPU. Even the integrated Intel GPU in the 2018 Mac Mini should be totally fine for DAWs. In video-land, I'm getting weary of making color grading changes to a layer and then sitting there for 30 secs while the changes render before I hit play again. And this is at 1080p, not even 4k. The future with regards to Apple Silicon is becoming the monkey in the wrench for me. It looks like a great machine, it’s just how long will everyone support intel macs? That is the very expensive question. Yes, indeed, that is a serious question to ask. And another question to ask is “by how much will the graphics performance in the first Apple Silicon Mac Mini exceed the graphics performance in the current Intel Mac Mini?” My guess is the ARM Mini will outperform the Intel Mini handily in the graphics department. But by how much? Will it make a Mini into a good video editing machine? And will it come out before the end of the year? Will the ARM Mini even support eGPUs? I do think a fair number of professional software developers will continue to support the Intel Macs for a good while. Hard to see Avid being early out of the gate with ARM support, for example. In my case, my two most-used professional apps right now are Logic and Final Cut, and I guarantee there is already a version of those running on ARM Macs as I type. And those will probably be the first professional apps to stop support for Intel Macs broadly, as well. 5 years? 3 years? 8 years? Who the hell knows...
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 8, 2020 6:14:32 GMT -6
I feel like my case is kind of complicated. A lot of moving parts to the system for me right now. The 2020 iMac really does look to be a fabulous machine. If you go with an i7, even the base GPU (Radeon Pro 5500 XT 8GB) is a pretty decent GPU for video editing: it's at least 10% faster than the GPU I use in my classic Mac Pro now (a Radeon Pro 580). The next two levels up for GPU choice from there are quite nice upgrades, though (5700 8GB and 5700 XT 16GB). And I wouldn't be worried about the GPU at all if I weren't doing video editing. DAWs just aren't going to require much oomph out of a GPU. Even the integrated Intel GPU in the 2018 Mac Mini should be totally fine for DAWs. In video-land, I'm getting weary of making color grading changes to a layer and then sitting there for 30 secs while the changes render before I hit play again. And this is at 1080p, not even 4k. The future with regards to Apple Silicon is becoming the monkey in the wrench for me. It looks like a great machine, it’s just how long will everyone support intel macs? That is the very expensive question. Dag. What's a guy to do, then? My Mac Mini just roars with fan noise. I regret the LG Ultrawide monitor, as I think that really taxes it. If I had an ounce of love for Windows, I'd just build my own PC.
Urgh.
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