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Post by svart on Apr 5, 2020 9:21:25 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 11:54:54 GMT -6
I'm not upset about the intervention - I think it's smart. And I'm not surprised that things are going to be better with it in place. But I am worried about the impact of the intervention though... It's going to be bad news either way you take it. Lives, careers, business's and savings/retirements/fortunes will all be lost due to the interventions. We just have to deal with it. The quote was from here - see pic. And it's stated as fact, but is outrageously overblown from where I'm sitting - 11 days into the 14 day apocalypse / end of days scenario. But what do I know? Maybe 3 more days will tilt the world upside down. One thing is for sure, we're not all in the same boat. The scenario's worldwide are quite different depending on whether you're in Northern Italy or in Siberia or in the saharan desert. I will say it again though, the emotional backlash from overblown statements like this will be as brutal over time as the virus. We're all adults here. Calm, factual and realistic info is what we need to get thru this tragedy. Not overblown "possibilities" stated as fact. Because the "facts" are literally changing every day. And from my perspective, more in a positive direction than a week ago. Meanwhile, my heart is aching for kids who are getting bombarded with the insane news who are too young to really assess it. And also for those without the faith to steer a clear path to make it through the madness that the virus - and the attempts to limit the virus - have thrust into their lives. Ok thanks for the clarification. Felt like some sort of straw man thing over and over but I do see that one person did say it at least once. I’m curious. You who have found ‘the media’ to be going into histrionics, what’s your regular media diet? I’m honestly curious what you guys consume in your daily lives. I have no doubt there’s some truth to it, at all. I just haven’t seen it firsthand. Maybe I’m an outlier because we don’t have the TV on almost ever and it’s just in our room. We don’t have one elsewhere in the house. I follow some journalists on Twitter and subscribe to a couple of newspapers and magazines and those have all been pretty carefully chosen after they earned credibility in my view. Is that very different from what you guys consume? So what’s, like, the worst of the worst? Something that’s just totally disconnected from factual reality and wildly sensational and sure to scar the next generation of children? I’d be genuinely interested to see a clip or few of what you guys mean about how the media is so insane over all this. All the media have sensationalized it. Turn on MSNBC (Maddow/Lemon) and you'd think this was the Bubonic Plague brought on by Republicans. Turn on FOX (Hannity/Ingraham) and you'd think the exact opposite. Like most things, this will likely end up in the middle. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 11:58:03 GMT -6
And btw - like drbill, I think the shutdown was necessary considering the lack of knowledge about it. But as the days go on, I think we're finding that a complete shutdown of economies might not be the correct continued course. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 12:01:43 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2020 12:47:40 GMT -6
Just a side note in regards to the super important medical side of things vs. the economic realities we are absolutely facing now.
A friend of mine went to his cancer doctor last Friday. His doctor has been treating Covid-19 patients (I don't know how many).
This doc is FAR more more concerned about the economic factors than the disease. The reason being? Every patient he has treated has recovered or is in process of recovering, and he sees little "fatality" danger from C-19 unless 1.) you are high risk or 2.) have pre-existing conditions that make you more susceptible or 3.) you wait too long for treatment - or worse case, all 3.
I'm not sure why we don't hear more about this. Not sure if it's right or wrong, but in case anyone here gets or has a loved one who gets C-19, here's what's working for this doc - and hs patients.
- His #1 warning - catch it early, and go into treatment BEFORE you get the test results. He says there is minimal downside aside from a few pre-existing conditions, but it's his belief that the reason people are dying is that they are waiting too long to get the test results, then they are really sick, then....boom. This disease acts fast - if it looks like you have it, act quickly and get treatment ASAP. Here's this docs prescription :
- Intravenous mega-dose of Vitamin C given immediately at the office.
- Hydroxychloroquine Treatment
- Z-Pack Treatment
- Zinc Oxide Pills
- In addition, before any of this happens, if you are at high risk, self quarantine yourself for a few months until a vaccine and other treatments are available.
I don't know much more than that, but that's his basic treatment - for what it's worth.
Why are we not hearing these success stories? Even if anecdotal...
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 12:53:11 GMT -6
Ok thanks for the clarification. Felt like some sort of straw man thing over and over but I do see that one person did say it at least once. I’m curious. You who have found ‘the media’ to be going into histrionics, what’s your regular media diet? I’m honestly curious what you guys consume in your daily lives. I have no doubt there’s some truth to it, at all. I just haven’t seen it firsthand. Maybe I’m an outlier because we don’t have the TV on almost ever and it’s just in our room. We don’t have one elsewhere in the house. I follow some journalists on Twitter and subscribe to a couple of newspapers and magazines and those have all been pretty carefully chosen after they earned credibility in my view. Is that very different from what you guys consume? So what’s, like, the worst of the worst? Something that’s just totally disconnected from factual reality and wildly sensational and sure to scar the next generation of children? I’d be genuinely interested to see a clip or few of what you guys mean about how the media is so insane over all this. All the media have sensationalized it. Turn on MSNBC (Maddow/Lemon) and you'd think this was the Bubonic Plague brought on by Republicans. Turn on FOX (Hannity/Ingraham) and you'd think the exact opposite. Like most things, this will likely end up in the middle. I guess I'm looking for specifics. I'm not able to judge (my own subjective judgment I mean) the validity of something based on broad generalities. Like what has Maddow/Lemon (to use your cited example) said or done or claimed that was wrong/false/crazy? Or even worse (as was claimed here, not by you I don't think) designed to mislead and sow chaos? When I've seen snippets of coverage I haven't seen this stuff. Cheesy, garish graphics? You bet. Dumb bed-tracks? Check. I just want to know where this strong conviction that 'the media' is misleading and gaslighting people comes from? Specifically. As far as any given claim is concerned, relying on generalizations feels to me like dogma, using specifics feels like support. We all engage in some of both but given the strong convictions about the abuse of 'the media' that are flying around, I'm interested in the support side of things and not the dogma. You don't need to provide Fox examples, that's a different ballgame and examples are easy to find there (in just the last few weeks I learned on Fox that this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God, that it's the 'deep state', that "at worst case scenario, this virus is the flu" that "right now is actually the safest time to fly", etc, etc). Fox is low hanging fruit as far as false/crazy stuff. But in outlets that purport to be serious, legitimate operations, where is this false/crazy/inflammatory stuff everyone keeps talking about? Again, I'm not saying it isn't there, I'd just like to see it for myself. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 13:11:51 GMT -6
All the media have sensationalized it. Turn on MSNBC (Maddow/Lemon) and you'd think this was the Bubonic Plague brought on by Republicans. Turn on FOX (Hannity/Ingraham) and you'd think the exact opposite. Like most things, this will likely end up in the middle. I guess I'm looking for specifics. I'm not able to judge (my own subjective judgment I mean) the validity of something based on broad generalities. Like what has Maddow/Lemon (to use your cited example) said or done or claimed that was wrong/false/crazy? Or even worse (as was claimed here, not by you I don't think) designed to mislead and sow chaos? When I've seen snippets of coverage I haven't seen this stuff. Cheesy, garish graphics? You bet. Dumb bed-tracks? Check. I just want to know where this strong conviction that 'the media' is misleading and gaslighting people comes from? Specifically. I guess as far as any given claim is concerned, relying on generalizations feels like dogma, using specifics feels like support. We all engage in some of both but given the strong convictions about the abuse of 'the media' that are flying around, I'm interested in the support side of things and not the dogma. You don't need to provide Fox examples, that's a different ballgame and examples are easy to find there (in just the last few weeks I learned on Fox that this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God, that it's the 'deep state', that "at worst case scenario, this virus is the flu" that "right now is actually the safest time to fly", etc, etc). Fox is low hanging fruit as far as false/crazy stuff. But in outlets that purport to be serious, legitimate operations, where is this false/crazy/inflammatory stuff everyone keeps talking about? Again, I'm not saying it isn't there, I'd just like to see it for myself. So this doesn't devolve, I'll PM you. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 13:13:51 GMT -6
I guess I'm looking for specifics. I'm not able to judge (my own subjective judgment I mean) the validity of something based on broad generalities. Like what has Maddow/Lemon (to use your cited example) said or done or claimed that was wrong/false/crazy? Or even worse (as was claimed here, not by you I don't think) designed to mislead and sow chaos? When I've seen snippets of coverage I haven't seen this stuff. Cheesy, garish graphics? You bet. Dumb bed-tracks? Check. I just want to know where this strong conviction that 'the media' is misleading and gaslighting people comes from? Specifically. I guess as far as any given claim is concerned, relying on generalizations feels like dogma, using specifics feels like support. We all engage in some of both but given the strong convictions about the abuse of 'the media' that are flying around, I'm interested in the support side of things and not the dogma. You don't need to provide Fox examples, that's a different ballgame and examples are easy to find there (in just the last few weeks I learned on Fox that this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God, that it's the 'deep state', that "at worst case scenario, this virus is the flu" that "right now is actually the safest time to fly", etc, etc). Fox is low hanging fruit as far as false/crazy stuff. But in outlets that purport to be serious, legitimate operations, where is this false/crazy/inflammatory stuff everyone keeps talking about? Again, I'm not saying it isn't there, I'd just like to see it for myself. So this doesn't devolve, I'll PM you. Ok fair enough. To be clear, I'm not like rooting for anyone in this media landscape. I don't have any loyalty to CNN or MSNBC or any of the other alleged purveyors of misinformation. I'm just saying it's easy to find the crazy on Fox, I want to see the crazy on others. I often forget that people have inherent loyalty to these things sometimes. Like, to my thinking, something is either crazy and wrong or it isn't, it doesn't matter what interests are pushing it. So I never think of a conversation discussing the various claims being made running the risk of "devolving". But that's repetitive naivety on my part because people do actually attach parts of their identities to things like media outlets and can see criticism of an outlet as an affront to themselves. It's just eternally weird to me and I forget to consider it. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -6
All the media have sensationalized it. Turn on MSNBC (Maddow/Lemon) and you'd think this was the Bubonic Plague brought on by Republicans. Turn on FOX (Hannity/Ingraham) and you'd think the exact opposite. Like most things, this will likely end up in the middle. I guess I'm looking for specifics. I'm not able to judge (my own subjective judgment I mean) the validity of something based on broad generalities. Like what has Maddow/Lemon (to use your cited example) said or done or claimed that was wrong/false/crazy? Or even worse (as was claimed here, not by you I don't think) designed to mislead and sow chaos? When I've seen snippets of coverage I haven't seen this stuff. Cheesy, garish graphics? You bet. Dumb bed-tracks? Check. I just want to know where this strong conviction that 'the media' is misleading and gaslighting people comes from? Specifically. I guess as far as any given claim is concerned, relying on generalizations feels like dogma, using specifics feels like support. We all engage in some of both but given the strong convictions about the abuse of 'the media' that are flying around, I'm interested in the support side of things and not the dogma. You don't need to provide Fox examples, that's a different ballgame and examples are easy to find there (in just the last few weeks I learned on Fox that this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God, that it's the 'deep state', that "at worst case scenario, this virus is the flu" that "right now is actually the safest time to fly", etc, etc). Fox is low hanging fruit as far as false/crazy stuff. But in outlets that purport to be serious, legitimate operations, where is this false/crazy/inflammatory stuff everyone keeps talking about? Again, I'm not saying it isn't there, I'd just like to see it for myself. Ragan - although I think some can easily make the case, I don't really think it's "designed" or "conspiratorial" in nature. I think it's just a perfect storm of money / advertising based reporting where it's obvious that the more sensationalized the reporting, the more people will get freaked and keep tuning in. More viewers = more money, and that's the driving force behind the news today IMO. It sure seems that it's not about spreading information, but instead making money first, and giving out information second. The former works better with over the top, sensationalized "headlines" that are designed to pull emotional responses out of people. The one specific thing that comes to mind right now was waking to to apple news a few days ago finding that the US is "the EPICENTER" for Covid-19 cases. Why Epicenter? Why not just leader. Why not "our cases have overtaken China's cases yesterday....., etc.". Why? Because it's sensationalism, and sensationalism sells. And ultimately, that sensationalism skews the information and pushes people into fear and craziness. As for the things you learned on Fox....  . "this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God". That is so far off the definition of God that it's embarrassingly stupid. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 13:23:34 GMT -6
So this doesn't devolve, I'll PM you. Ok fair enough. To be clear, I'm not like rooting for anyone in this media landscape. I don't have any loyalty to CNN or MSNBC or any of the other alleged purveyors of misinformation. I'm just saying it's easy to find the crazy on Fox, I want to see the crazy on others. To me, there's one guy I'd consider crazy on Fox - Hannity...I find Carlson to be more Libertarian, often disagreeing and criticizing Trump and the Republicans. But, "Crazy" is relative, right? In my opinion, MSNBC and CNN are much more partisan - they seem to be in lockstep. No dissention. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 13:34:05 GMT -6
I guess I'm looking for specifics. I'm not able to judge (my own subjective judgment I mean) the validity of something based on broad generalities. Like what has Maddow/Lemon (to use your cited example) said or done or claimed that was wrong/false/crazy? Or even worse (as was claimed here, not by you I don't think) designed to mislead and sow chaos? When I've seen snippets of coverage I haven't seen this stuff. Cheesy, garish graphics? You bet. Dumb bed-tracks? Check. I just want to know where this strong conviction that 'the media' is misleading and gaslighting people comes from? Specifically. I guess as far as any given claim is concerned, relying on generalizations feels like dogma, using specifics feels like support. We all engage in some of both but given the strong convictions about the abuse of 'the media' that are flying around, I'm interested in the support side of things and not the dogma. You don't need to provide Fox examples, that's a different ballgame and examples are easy to find there (in just the last few weeks I learned on Fox that this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God, that it's the 'deep state', that "at worst case scenario, this virus is the flu" that "right now is actually the safest time to fly", etc, etc). Fox is low hanging fruit as far as false/crazy stuff. But in outlets that purport to be serious, legitimate operations, where is this false/crazy/inflammatory stuff everyone keeps talking about? Again, I'm not saying it isn't there, I'd just like to see it for myself. As for the things you learned on Fox.... . "this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God". That is so far off the definition of God that it's embarrassingly stupid. But, see...you just bought into the sensationalism. Not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one. Maybe you're just being hyperbolic to show an example...anyway...here's a Carlson report on Coronavirus from January 29th... video.foxnews.com/v/6127455406001 |
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Post by svart on Apr 6, 2020 13:34:26 GMT -6
All the media have sensationalized it. Turn on MSNBC (Maddow/Lemon) and you'd think this was the Bubonic Plague brought on by Republicans. Turn on FOX (Hannity/Ingraham) and you'd think the exact opposite. Like most things, this will likely end up in the middle. I guess I'm looking for specifics. I'm not able to judge (my own subjective judgment I mean) the validity of something based on broad generalities. Like what has Maddow/Lemon (to use your cited example) said or done or claimed that was wrong/false/crazy? Or even worse (as was claimed here, not by you I don't think) designed to mislead and sow chaos? When I've seen snippets of coverage I haven't seen this stuff. Cheesy, garish graphics? You bet. Dumb bed-tracks? Check. I just want to know where this strong conviction that 'the media' is misleading and gaslighting people comes from? Specifically. As far as any given claim is concerned, relying on generalizations feels to me like dogma, using specifics feels like support. We all engage in some of both but given the strong convictions about the abuse of 'the media' that are flying around, I'm interested in the support side of things and not the dogma. You don't need to provide Fox examples, that's a different ballgame and examples are easy to find there (in just the last few weeks I learned on Fox that this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God, that it's the 'deep state', that "at worst case scenario, this virus is the flu" that "right now is actually the safest time to fly", etc, etc). Fox is low hanging fruit as far as false/crazy stuff. But in outlets that purport to be serious, legitimate operations, where is this false/crazy/inflammatory stuff everyone keeps talking about? Again, I'm not saying it isn't there, I'd just like to see it for myself. I clearly saw an article on CNN about 6 weeks ago that claimed 10 million us citizens would die from this. They gave no conditions like "if we don't do anything". Of course, now I can't find it. Disappeared, like a lot of articles they publish that don't turn out. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 13:38:00 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Apr 6, 2020 13:39:56 GMT -6
Ok fair enough. To be clear, I'm not like rooting for anyone in this media landscape. I don't have any loyalty to CNN or MSNBC or any of the other alleged purveyors of misinformation. I'm just saying it's easy to find the crazy on Fox, I want to see the crazy on others. To me, there's one guy I'd consider crazy on Fox - Hannity...I find Carlson to be more Libertarian, often disagreeing and criticizing Trump and the Republicans. But, "Crazy" is relative, right? In my opinion, MSNBC and CNN are much more partisan - they seem to be in lockstep. No dissention. As a libertarian, the ones that fox actually had were stossel, Williams, and napolitano. Generally they've been relegated to lesser duties or released after being critical of the neocons in the GOP.. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2020 13:41:40 GMT -6
As for the things you learned on Fox.... . "this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God". That is so far off the definition of God that it's embarrassingly stupid. But, see...you just bought into the sensationalism. Not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one. Maybe you're just being hyperbolic to show an example...anyway...here's a Carlson report on Coronavirus from January 29th... video.foxnews.com/v/6127455406001John - are you speaking to me or Ragan, cause I'm doing my BEST not to buy into the sensationalism. I just took (quoted) Ragan's word for it..... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 13:47:17 GMT -6
Sorry, drbill. ragan, I'd love for you to point me to examples of anyone on Fox News saying what you are claiming. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 14:42:24 GMT -6
As for the things you learned on Fox.... . "this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God". That is so far off the definition of God that it's embarrassingly stupid. But, see...you just bought into the sensationalism. Not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one. Maybe you're just being hyperbolic to show an example...anyway...here's a Carlson report on Coronavirus from January 29th... video.foxnews.com/v/6127455406001Well, for one thing, here's the video of it. But for another, how are you comfortable declaring "not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one." This sounds like the kind of loyalty I was talking about. Even if I somehow felt some allegiance to a media outlet, I'd never outright declare something 'never to have been uttered' on it unless I'd literally seen every minute of it's programming. I can't fathom having that kind of blanket confidence in an organization. |
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Post by christopher on Apr 6, 2020 14:44:33 GMT -6
Just a side note in regards to the super important medical side of things vs. the economic realities we are absolutely facing now. A friend of mine went to his cancer doctor last Friday. His doctor has been treating Covid-19 patients (I don't know how many). This doc is FAR more more concerned about the economic factors than the disease. The reason being? Every patient he has treated has recovered or is in process of recovering, and he sees little "fatality" danger from C-19 unless 1.) you are high risk or 2.) have pre-existing conditions that make you more susceptible or 3.) you wait too long for treatment - or worse case, all 3. I'm not sure why we don't hear more about this. Not sure if it's right or wrong, but in case anyone here gets or has a loved one who gets C-19, here's what's working for this doc - and hs patients. - His #1 warning - catch it early, and go into treatment BEFORE you get the test results. He says there is minimal downside aside from a few pre-existing conditions, but it's his belief that the reason people are dying is that they are waiting too long to get the test results, then they are really sick, then....boom. This disease acts fast - if it looks like you have it, act quickly and get treatment ASAP. Here's this docs prescription : - Intravenous mega-dose of Vitamin C given immediately at the office. - Hydroxychloroquine Treatment - Z-Pack Treatment - Zinc Oxide Pills - In addition, before any of this happens, if you are at high risk, self quarantine yourself for a few months until a vaccine and other treatments are available. I don't know much more than that, but that's his basic treatment - for what it's worth. Why are we not hearing these success stories? Even if anecdotal... This is what gives me some hope. It has definitely been zipping through the whole country going untested. I think most docs in US are pro prescriptions and will toss everything at flus anyway, even though antibiotics don’t work on viruses. Well duh! Then why do doctors always do it anyway? Because it can’t hurt, and it could help! US has the toughest system in order to practice medicine, my friend was a practicing doctor in Argentina and she says her education wasn’t as intense as a nurses education here. We may be different in treatment than other countries, using common overkill treatments for flu that are helping us through this as well. That would be awesome. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2020 15:02:58 GMT -6
But, see...you just bought into the sensationalism. Not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one. Maybe you're just being hyperbolic to show an example...anyway...here's a Carlson report on Coronavirus from January 29th... video.foxnews.com/v/6127455406001Well, for one thing, here's the video of it. But for another, how are you comfortable declaring "not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one." This sounds like the kind of loyalty I was talking about. Even if I somehow felt some allegiance to a media outlet, I'd never outright declare something 'never to have been uttered' on it unless I'd literally seen every minute of it's programming. I can't fathom having that kind of blanket confidence in an organization. Perfect example. The title and description of the video definitely puts a spin on it - the video. And it's a spin that leads one to believe that Graham says that the virus is from God, and it's God's judgment against the world. That's not what he said. A "Judgement from God" = controversial. Controversial = Views. Views = MONEY!!! |
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 15:15:09 GMT -6
drbill how is that description misconstruing anything? He literally says the pandemic is the result of a world that has turned its back on God, as described. You added the word "judgment". I'm not even making a theological or philosophical claim about whether that is possible/true/false or anything like that. I was just pointing out that you find that kind of stuff on Fox. Honestly after pretty much every disaster you get evangelical pundits saying the same thing. I'm not speaking as an outsider here. I grew up in that world and still inhabit it in various ways. My parents were pastors for 40 years. So were my aunt and uncle. My grandparents started churches. I come from a small rural town and I grew up going to church 3x a week minimum (for services, I was also just there all the time because my family's life revolved around it). Most of my family are either music teachers or pastors, all in either heavy fundamentalism or modern evangelicalism. I don't need right wing media to hear the gamut of these types of views, I can just talk to my own family. From sane and balanced and well grounded in their theology (my folks) to completely unhinged (I have fam who live off-grid on an almost exclusive diet of prepper/endtimes paranoia).
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 15:29:58 GMT -6
Also, if this is just too sensitive of a subject, I can happily withdraw my questions, delete posts, whatever. I don't mean for anything to "devolve" in any way. I think by nature, specifics are touchier than generalities. As long as we're castigating "the media" as an abstract, it can function as a useful boogeyman for us all. As soon as we start identifying specific examples I think maybe that's where it gets touchy. Not for me but I think for many (and I don't mean that as a critique of them or a praise of myself...I'm too detached sometimes).
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2020 15:57:50 GMT -6
drbill how is that description misconstruing anything?. The prepper / endtimes fundamentalists have a twisted view of who God is in my opinion. And while they are welcome to their interpretation as much as I am to mine, there opinion is way more controversial - which is why they get quoted all the time in the media because : Controversy = Views = Money.So here's what he ACTUALLY said. I didn't transcribe perfectly word for word, but if you really want, you can go back and listen for yourself. Italics mine.FG - "I don't think God planned for this to happen - it's because of the sin that's in the world". i.e : Man caused.FG - "we need to ask for forgiveness which is what Easter is all about. It's about God loving the world so much that he gave his only son - that whoever believes in him (Jesus) will not perish, but will inherit eternal life." (sorry, bp paraphrased, but the gist is there....). It's about fixing the problem, not condemming the world to a horrific pandemic,FG - "Jesus Christ came to save "sinners" - i.e. "the lost". I hate the word "sinners" because of all the negative connotation and baggage that the media has hung on it, but you no doubt grew up with it. FG - "He (Jesus) didn't come to condemn the world but to save the world." Again, solution oriented not judgement oriented.FG - "this pandemic is a result of a fallen world." again, touching on the whole fall in the garden, Adam & Eve, etc. and he goes on for a bit longer.....So, then we have the shortcut Media spin on it : Title of video : "Franklin Graham says people are dying of the CV because man has sinned against God." While technically correct due to man turning his (collective) back on God, it's fundamentally (sorry for the word ) wrong because it's God's desire that everyone know Him and inherit eternal life. God did not send the pandemic. It's a result of things going whacky in the world.Title of video : "He says the pandemic is happening because the world has turned it back on God". Again, completely misleading if you even watched the video. In fact, God wants the opposite. But hey, there is a huge bias against Christianity in the current press.The conclusions drawn in the text of the video are about one thing only - not truly conveying the intent and heart of what FGraham had to say, but about controversial spin on what Christianity actually is. Which is not a big meanie god with an apocalyptic sized sledge hammer waiting to crush those who are "sinners". I would imagine Franklin Graham is cringing at what they actually attributed to him. And yeah, John if you need to delete, please feel free - but delete ALL of it. . |
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 16:15:55 GMT -6
drbill how is that description misconstruing anything?. The prepper / endtimes fundamentalists have a twisted view of who God is in my opinion. And while they are welcome to their interpretation as much as I am to mine, there opinion is way more controversial - which is why they get quoted all the time in the media because : Controversy = Views = Money.So here's what he ACTUALLY said. I didn't transcribe perfectly word for word, but if you really want, you can go back and listen for yourself. Italics mine.FG - "I don't think God planned for this to happen - it's because of the sin that's in the world". i.e : Man caused.FG - "we need to ask for forgiveness which is what Easter is all about. It's about God loving the world so much that he gave his only son - that whoever believes in him (Jesus) will not perish, but will inherit eternal life." (sorry, bp paraphrased, but the gist is there....). It's about fixing the problem, not condemming the world to a horrific pandemic,FG - "Jesus Christ came to save "sinners" - i.e. "the lost". I hate the word "sinners" because of all the negative connotation and baggage that the media has hung on it, but you no doubt grew up with it. FG - "He (Jesus) didn't come to condemn the world but to save the world." Again, solution oriented not judgement oriented.FG - "this pandemic is a result of a fallen world." again, touching on the whole fall in the garden, Adam & Eve, etc. and he goes on for a bit longer.....So, then we have the shortcut Media spin on it : Title of video : "Franklin Graham says people are dying of the CV because man has sinned against God." While technically correct due to man turning his (collective) back on God, it's fundamentally (sorry for the word ) wrong because it's God's desire that everyone know Him and inherit eternal life. God did not send the pandemic. It's a result of things going whacky in the world.Title of video : "He says the pandemic is happening because the world has turned it back on God". Again, completely misleading if you even watched the video. In fact, God wants the opposite. But hey, there is a huge bias against Christianity in the current press.The conclusions drawn in the text of the video are about one thing only - not truly conveying the intent and heart of what FGraham had to say, but about controversial spin on what Christianity actually is. Which is not a big meanie god with an apocalyptic sized sledge hammer waiting to crush those who are "sinners". I would imagine Franklin Graham is cringing at what they actually attributed to him. And yeah, John if you need to delete, please feel free - but delete ALL of it. . Ok, well it's pretty dog-bites-man to report that a Christian evangelist believes in 'the Fall' and John 3:16. I don't think the person writing the description in any way mischaracterized what Graham is claiming. You have a charitable view of it, I have an uncharitable view of it. Both admittedly subjective. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 16:20:47 GMT -6
But, see...you just bought into the sensationalism. Not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one. Maybe you're just being hyperbolic to show an example...anyway...here's a Carlson report on Coronavirus from January 29th... video.foxnews.com/v/6127455406001Well, for one thing, here's the video of it. But for another, how are you comfortable declaring "not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one." This sounds like the kind of loyalty I was talking about. Even if I somehow felt some allegiance to a media outlet, I'd never outright declare something 'never to have been uttered' on it unless I'd literally seen every minute of it's programming. I can't fathom having that kind of blanket confidence in an organization. I’m comfortable saying it because no one on Fox News said anything of the sort. I didn’t realize you were now holding each network responsible for what a guest says. What in the hell did you expect the most prominent Evangelical Christian pastor to say? For that matter - go ask a couple Imams what they think. Also - I have conceded that there are some on Fox News that are too right for my tastes...but I just don’t see how anyone couldn’t say the same for CNN and MSNBC. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 6, 2020 16:33:06 GMT -6
Well, for one thing, here's the video of it. But for another, how are you comfortable declaring "not one single thing like that has been uttered on Fox News. Not one." This sounds like the kind of loyalty I was talking about. Even if I somehow felt some allegiance to a media outlet, I'd never outright declare something 'never to have been uttered' on it unless I'd literally seen every minute of it's programming. I can't fathom having that kind of blanket confidence in an organization. I’m comfortable saying it because no one on Fox News said anything of the sort. I didn’t realize you were now holding each network responsible for what a guest says. What in the hell did you expect the most prominent Evangelical Christian pastor to say? For that matter - go ask a couple Imams what they think. Also - I have conceded that there are some on Fox News that are too right for my tastes...but I just don’t see how anyone couldn’t say the same for CNN and MSNBC. Oh I absolutely hold networks accountable for every yahoo they keep throwing on their air. They (networks) make their money off of it and it gets pumped into our collective eyeballs so what's the difference between guest and host, functionally? |
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. "this virus was sent to punish the world for turning its back on God". That is so far off the definition of God that it's embarrassingly stupid.
