|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Jan 24, 2020 17:10:37 GMT -6
To kind of piggyback off of saltyjames’ thread about self-producing how are those of you who are doing your tracking by yourself doing it successfully? I am struggling at the moment with getting satisfactory takes because I am trying to fiddle with knobs while listening through headphones and figuring out mic placements on my own. I am getting better at knowing about where to place things but, I am not satisfied. Or not patient, or too picky, or just suck. You know, it could be a myriad of things. I know that nick8801 can do a fine job as evidenced in his “my record” thread. Those tracks sound amazing to me. I think I have the gear I need but my technique is not so hot. |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jan 24, 2020 17:16:13 GMT -6
To kind of piggyback off of saltyjames ’ thread about self-producing how are those of you who are doing your tracking by yourself doing it successfully? I am struggling at the moment with getting satisfactory takes because I am trying to fiddle with knobs while listening through headphones and figuring out mic placements on my own. I am getting better at knowing about where to place things but, I am not satisfied. Or not patient, or too picky, or just suck. You know, it could be a myriad of things. I know that nick8801 can do a fine job as evidenced in his “my record” thread. Those tracks sound amazing to me. I think I have the gear I need but my technique is not so hot. I spent a lot of time , just practicing/learning how to get the sounds I wanted. Then when its time to track I just focus on playing. Spend a day, just engineering each instrument. eg spend a day, learning how to get the best sound out of your acoustic, try mic positions, mics, distances, rooms, write down what works for what. Repeat for each instrument. A week spent doing this stuff will pay dividends for years Also set up everything as best you can, templates , mics on stands, headphone mixes etc so that when you are tracking you minimise the futzing around and just play Basically seperate into two jobs, engineering and playing and try and do only one at a time Cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Jan 24, 2020 20:54:06 GMT -6
Just looking at your avatar (well, pic actually). I'd say that getting some treatment in the room you record in might be a good start. That's what I did in my home studio and I believe it has made a signifiant difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Jan 24, 2020 21:13:12 GMT -6
Just looking at your avatar (well, pic actually). I'd say that getting some treatment in the room you record in might be a good start. That's what I did in my home studio and I believe it has made a signifiant difference. Thanks for replying. The avatar is an old picture and you can’t see the treatment from the angle. Plus lots has been added and rearranged since the picture with the help of GIK Acoustics. There are also corner traps and traps straddling where the walls meet the ceilings. Room is good. Here are a few examples:   I think my problems are now just from having to put in the time to get the experience with what works with the equipment and room I have. Kind of like what wiz is saying. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Jan 24, 2020 21:57:57 GMT -6
I feel your pain. It's hard to record by myself. I pretty much have to be sitting in front of the computer in order to hit the record button. Or loop record a bunch. My electric picks up a bunch of buzz from the gear, I think. Or the computer screen or something. Forget punch-ins. Have to splice it together after the fact.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 24, 2020 22:05:47 GMT -6
There are all sorts of sonic remedies, but that's not what I hear you being concerned with. Unless I'm wrong, it's being the artist and the engineer simultaneously.
Here's a basic idea of what I do, first, I have templates, and I mean real thoroughly thought out complete templates. I have a shaker track ready (for a tempo guide, I don't use a click) Any time I open a new session, all my usual things are right where I want them. My busses have my go to reverbs and compressors, all my tracks have busses assigned, everything is ready, down to color coding tracks..
Depending on what point I am in a recording, I set up what I need first, guitar mic, amp mic, vocal mic, etc. If it's a tube mic, I warm it up. I put my chair where I want it, and open my Logic controller app on my iPad. This way I can start recording, stop recording, and start again from where I'm sitting and not go to the computer. I sometimes keep the keyboard and mouse nearby, just in case I need them but don't want to get up.
Now this is before I've even opened up Logic. Now I open my DAW. I change a couple of settings, then leave it all for a couple of minutes and come back as if I'm starting for the first time. I already have my preamp set where I like it, so there's very little to do there. Now I'm almost ready to track. If it's a first track, I set my tempo, set level of shaker "click" track relative to what I'm recording, and I'm good to go. I'm not afraid to do a dozen takes if needed, but usually 2 or 3 is all I need to get it right.
So, my point is, you need a lot of preparation. Now, let's say that's all done, you have to be willing to live with a few rough edges or you'll get bogged down. On a new track I'm working on, I played a slide guitar part, just to see if I wanted a slide guitar part. There were plenty of mistakes or parts that could be better. I kept the track for reference, planning to recut it, but I kinda liked the ragged edges, so I thought fuck it, I''ll use it anyway and edit a little. The song was about petty tyrants and how what goes around comes around, so the chaotic slide actually fit the song. The take away is keep an open mind, don't be too picky early on.
I have one personal tip for you, get the best mics you can before anything else. A great mic will sound good on any of a dozen different interfaces, a shitty mic is shitty wherever it goes. Everything we do starts with a mic, so carefully choose your mics and the recording will mostly take care of itself. I know of some mics under $700 that I could happily make a record with and not feel undermined by it. But, if you can afford it, get at least one great mic, a Neumann U87, a Chandler TG or a Soyuz 0-17 or 0-19 will make your tracks sound good right from the start.
* Also, if you have a friend whose ears you trust, it's good to ask for a second opinion sometimes.
Hope this helped, good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Jan 24, 2020 22:25:25 GMT -6
Thanks Martin, you pretty much summed up and nailed what I’m getting at. The advice about mics I have been trying to heed as well. Another big part of it too, truth be told, is being impatient with the stumbles that come along with acquiring new skills.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 25, 2020 9:34:42 GMT -6
I worked in many big time classic studios when I was younger. I had my own private studio in the late 80's which I sold 10 years later. I had left music business and when I returned, it was digital, and I had to learn to do what others had already gained more than a decade of experience with, so my learning curve was steep and deeply frustrating.
So many folks here were a big help during that time. That said, being an artist first, I never mastered audio engineering. I had written and produced at least 100 radio and TV commercials at my own studio, but it was such a simple basic setup that the DAW environment was overwhelming for a long time.
Now I'm at a point where DAW masters can still run rings around me, but I'm capable enough to record an album by myself that I don't hate. The things I don't know or am not so great at don't bug me as much now.
So keep at it, time will pass, and it will get better. Try some of my suggestions and see if it helps.
|
|
|
|
Post by gwlee7 on Jan 25, 2020 10:20:23 GMT -6
I think one thing I will need to do is start keeping a notebook so I can document things I have tried re placements, mics, settings, etc so I don’t keep spinning my wheels with things that don’t work for my room.
|
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Jan 25, 2020 15:34:07 GMT -6
one thing I can share... I have to get away from starting songs with click tracks. i need to just record scratch tracks in free-time, then create a tempo map to the scratch tracks. At that point I can chop up the scratch tracks and really define the tempo if I want. The grid approach can kill personality and natural musicality that’s been a part of music for centuries. I notice that if I use the voice memo app, I’ll put pauses and organically push and pull the tempo a lot more. A client turned me onto the voice memo app for songwriting, free-time is the way to go for me. Good luck!
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jan 25, 2020 16:53:30 GMT -6
Basically seperate into two jobs, engineering and playing and try and do only one at a time Cheers Wiz ^^THIS^^
Also, if you can get a music partner to work with on a regular basis it helps a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Jan 25, 2020 21:06:42 GMT -6
Basically what Wiz said...I’ve spent a lot of years just noodling around, learning how to get the sounds I like on all the instruments I want to record. I go through phases. Some weeks it will just be drums...sometimes bass. Vocals were and are the hardest when I’m doing my own stuff as I don’t consider myself a singer first. I’ve worked it out where I know almost exactly what I need to do to get certain sounds. The trick is I’m never really happy. I’m always trying out new ideas to see what can get me there. Once you have enough up your sleeve you can get the sounds pretty quickly which will allow you to get to the production part. I’ve also learned to keep it as simple as possible. On that record I used one mic for all the instruments and one mic for all the vocals. Same preamp for everything as well. Even though I have a lot to choose from it gave me less to think about. Your room looks really nice so that should help. Acoustics is everything!
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 25, 2020 22:58:41 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jan 26, 2020 0:32:00 GMT -6
Great thread. Including the brilliant posts above, by MJB.
FWIW I also agree with George Massenburg, that all you need are (paraphrasing) "the AT 40 series and UA plugs" to make a great record". But I agree Neumann/Bock/FLEA/Soyuz/AEA/Chandler/etc.
make it even greater...
Chris
P.S. I met George at NAMM briefly, but not enough time to chat about this.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 26, 2020 9:45:37 GMT -6
If money's tight, the Lewitt 640 or the Roswell Delphos will get you there well under 1 k.
|
|
|
|
Post by Omicron9 on Jan 26, 2020 11:47:40 GMT -6
To kind of piggyback off of saltyjames ’ thread about self-producing how are those of you who are doing your tracking by yourself doing it successfully? I am struggling at the moment with getting satisfactory takes because I am trying to fiddle with knobs while listening through headphones and figuring out mic placements on my own. I am getting better at knowing about where to place things but, I am not satisfied. Or not patient, or too picky, or just suck. You know, it could be a myriad of things. I know that nick8801 can do a fine job as evidenced in his “my record” thread. Those tracks sound amazing to me. I think I have the gear I need but my technique is not so hot. I spent a lot of time , just practicing/learning how to get the sounds I wanted. Then when its time to track I just focus on playing. Spend a day, just engineering each instrument. eg spend a day, learning how to get the best sound out of your acoustic, try mic positions, mics, distances, rooms, write down what works for what. Repeat for each instrument. A week spent doing this stuff will pay dividends for years ...snip.... Cheers Wiz I concur with Wiz, but will add the following. Don't worry too much about accepted mic placement practice. Put a mic up; if it sounds good, it is good. It took me a loooooooong time to learn that lesson. Additionally, it just takes practice, patience, and an investment of time. It's like learning to play an instrument or learning a new language. You'll get there if you put in the time. One other thing that may be helpful: know what you are seeking. If you have a specific sound as a goal, it can make it easier to achieve that goal. Or it did for me anyway. Enjoy the process! -09 |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946 
|
Post by ericn on Jan 30, 2020 22:13:38 GMT -6
Not everybody can be a producer / AE and being your own AE / producer can be even harder. Both an AE and a producer are as much about being a therapist as they are about anything technical and my therapist used to tell me as good as I was at being an AE / producer I was a lousy Psychiatrist. I told her “ well I don’t have a script pad “ and fired her. I must be pretty good at it I haven’t killed anybody.
Yet😎
|
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Jan 31, 2020 7:15:01 GMT -6
I concur with Wiz, but will add the following. Don't worry too much about accepted mic placement practice. Put a mic up; if it sounds good, it is good. It took me a loooooooong time to learn that lesson. I've found that in addition to mic placement, there's instrument placement, and I believe it is just as, if not more important than mic placement. Most of us DIY home-studio types have to deal with the room acoustics we've been dealt. My room is pretty heavily treated, so I originally thought that I was reasonably taking the room out of of the equation. Not so. adamjbrass came over a few years ago and we moved my piano around the room until it sounded good in the room. What a huge difference. From there, I've built the working ergonomics of the space around how the piano sits in the room. I've done the same thing with my guitars and voice since then and determined the best spots for mic placement using the same procedure. E.g. play the guitar and move around until it sounds best, then try to make that point the midpoint between where I play and where I place the mics(s). |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Feb 3, 2020 7:29:40 GMT -6
I have found three solutions.
1. Put your vocal compressors at the top of a tall rack at eye level height so you can see your GR when tracking vocals.
2. Keep a note book of every setting and set up that worked, to make for easy re-call.
3. Have children - my sons are now old enough (15 and 18) to be assistant engineers and move mics about and strum guitars and hit drums
whilst I set things up - in exchange for money of course!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 11:42:47 GMT -6
I'm 1000% less picky about recording myself than I am with others. I have no clue why that is. I just somehow don't overthink things like I do with other people. If the part sounds cool through whatever chain I'm trying out, then I let that vibe inform the next chain of decisions. I also acquiesce to the importance of ergonomics over ideal positioning. I will gladly sacrifice an ideal room / mic placement to be able to easily reach my rack to make adjustments and the computer to hit record. Whatever keeps things moving efficiently. My patience goes out the window when it's just me. With the band, it's a little different. I hate wearing headphones when I'm tracking electric guitar, so I make sure we're in a studio where there is a clear line of sight from the control room into the live room, then I just stand in front of the monitors with the keyboard nearby to hit record. I do the same running back and forth moving mics and adjusting things in the control room as I do with any other band. I just like it a lot less.  |
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Feb 3, 2020 12:25:58 GMT -6
Pretty much what Wiz said for me.
Have hardware "presets."
Go beyond "setting up before opening the DAW" and have everything set up semi-permanently, so when you're fresh with an idea, there is nothing to impede you. This is really the big advantage of having a personal recording studio that doesn't need to be broken down and reconfigured all the time. Have a direct box for the bass, or an amp. Every mic must have its own preamp, and should be in a tested position. You should not need to move a bunch of things around when it's time to press record. Monitoring paths should be simple and preconfigured. If you need headphones they should be in arms reach, etc. A minimal number of power switches should need to be engaged.
Do lots of test recordings for tone and mix. If you have a drum set, you are going to need a template in the DAW that has everything rough mixed. This will save major time. Drum mixing is too complicated to have to re-do every time you track a new song.
Get ALL of this out of the way and constantly re-evaluate and hone in on your mix templates, mic positions, and etc. Feel free to change a couple things now and then to keep it moving, like a new mic or something. This will keep your engineer brain active enough. And your lust for new gear will be whetted often enough. Not that any of us have a problem with that.
The best advice about material and performance I have to is to finish an EP or an LP and release it. Once you swallow the big pill and get 'er done you will have much more confidence in all of this stuff for anything that comes after the release. Putting an official release on deck will get you motivated and picky and make you finish your loose ends and etc to be able to put the 5-10 songs out in a way that you are happy with the results. Knowing that people will be judging your material will make you double down and white knuckle on the finishing 10% which seems to be the hardest bit to get done.
The first one I did felt like moving mountains, but it has since become more or less second nature. It gets easier. So yeah, that's pretty normal if you haven't completed something yet, to feel uncomfortable.
Putting out the release will answer a lot of the hypothetical questions in your head. Looking back on it months or years later you may even be impressed with what you were able to accomplish. Or in the worst case, have a reason to try harder and work better. Either way, you have set the bar.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 3, 2020 12:49:05 GMT -6
I have found three solutions. 1. Put your vocal compressors at the top of a tall rack at eye level height so you can see your GR when tracking vocals. 2. Keep a note book of every setting and set up that worked, to make for easy re-call. 3. Have children - my sons are now old enough (15 and 18) to be assistant engineers and move mics about and strum guitars and hit drums whilst I set things up - in exchange for money of course! So... How much do your sons pay you?  Chris |
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 3, 2020 13:35:44 GMT -6
I gotta say - I’m not a huge fan of having presets for everything. Perhaps it’s good if you’re trying to keep things similar in every song, but I don’t generally do that.
I keep my phone on me at pretty much all times. If I have an idea I’ll either sing it into the phone or record a quick guitar thing with some humming over it.
Over the next few days I’ll figure out what I want the song to be production wise, then figure out how to get there. The drum setup is different, the guitar tones are different, the mics are different etc. sometimes it’s a mono overhead and a kick mic. That can turn out beautifully, as can a fully over the top drum mic situation.
Templates bore me after a while, and lead me to do the same things over and over. I’m not so much interested in that. Sort of always on the go and always making new decisions for what works.
🤷🏻♂️
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Feb 3, 2020 14:13:22 GMT -6
The most powerful vocal recording technique I know is breathing with the singer and riding the vocal fader off the floor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Feb 3, 2020 14:14:19 GMT -6
re: Jeremy's post. That wouldn't work for me for several reasons, the main one being that I don't want to spend several days on an idea. I like to be able to work as fast as is possible. I also like to print the idea right to "tape" instead of having a demo version. Things that end up on the phone/whatever don't ever seem to get developed. For some reason, it just doesn't work for me.
But it's a big wide world and everyone has their own methods and their own reasons.
|
|
