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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2019 21:24:36 GMT -6
I know this isn’t the guitar forum, but certain privileges come with owning the forum  If you were buying a Strat and Les Paul, which models would you buy. I guess I’m talking bang for buck. I’ve got an American Standard Tele and all the rest of my guitars are cheap ones. So cheap necks, cheap pickups, etc. The Tele stays in tune and the stock pickups sound like, well...a Tele. Just wondering if there are like certain years/models that there’s a consensus on. One day I’d love to have a cool tele, strat, Les Paul and Firebird. Fender Classic series? Roadworn? |
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 23, 2019 21:26:29 GMT -6
Does it have to be Fender?
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2019 21:55:05 GMT -6
Does it have to be Fender? No...but I’m looking for classic tones. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2019 21:57:10 GMT -6
saw your guitar in the classifieds...it’s definitely sexy. Might be a little out of the price range though.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 23, 2019 22:03:06 GMT -6
Does it have to be Fender? No...but I’m looking for classic tones. Right on. There’s a lot of Strat style builders that are kicking ass. Danocaster, Mario Martin, K-Line, etc). Aside from the feel, there are some really great pickups that nail that classic sound (Budz, Rocketfire, Mark Foley, etc). I’ve been on a strat hunt for over a year. Finally decided just to build one and having Mario Martin (AKA Guitar Mill, Nashville) do the finishing. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 23, 2019 22:16:40 GMT -6
No...but I’m looking for classic tones. Right on. There’s a lot of Strat style builders that are kicking ass. Danocaster, Mario Martin, K-Line, etc). Aside from the feel, there are some really great pickups that nail that classic sound (Budz, Rocketfire, Mark Foley, etc). I’ve been on a strat hunt for over a year. Finally decided just to build one and having Mario Martin (AKA Guitar Mill, Nashville) do the finishing. Danocaster is no longer taking orders and won’t be making any guitars after he fulfills what he has left. Big bummer I always wanted one and I’m sure those who have them are Going to be holding onto them now. John, i would figure out exactly what neck specs you like and go from there. Pickup swaps are easy, most bodies are pretty much the same. Neck shape, finish feel, fret size, and fret wire size and fingerboard radius are so much more important than anything else when you pickup a guitar. The Fender American Originals are nice. They can be had reasonably priced used if you keep a keen eye and are thrifty. I haven’t touched a new Les Paul in years ever since the charmbered body and robot tuner bs. I’ve got a late 70’s Standard that is amazing and I’d encourage you to check out used “not great” year les Paul’s because there are good ones out there. LOTS of turds though. I’m sure you’ll know a good one when you pick it up. I have heard good things about the new LP’s but haven’t had one in my hands. |
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Post by notneeson on Dec 23, 2019 22:29:29 GMT -6
Been playing for 31 years (oh god, it hurts to say that out loud, I should be way better) and I think the answer is different for every player.
A lot of time it comes down to the specific guitar, even if quality control and materials are very good.
I have an MIJ 50's Strat that I bought for $300 at a pawn shop. It's a great guitar, not perfect, but very playable and has personality. My 90's US Tele sounds great and plays well, but I don't know, something about the neck is a tad boring. My 90s ASAT has an incredible neck, terrible resale, and I just don't like non-classic headstock shapes as much regardless of how great something like a Suhr or a Tom Anderson (etc.) might be.
I have played $3500 custom shop strats that did not speak to me like mine does. Maybe I'm just responding to setups I don't like? Not sure, honestly.
At a Fender co-sponsored event I was at a few years ago I loved this Fender Elite Strat they had— way more than the Custom Shop on hand, and at half the cost. But the Start Elite at the guitar shop here in town doesn't do anything for me.
I got invited to jam at some tech millionaire's studio one time and his actual vintage Strat didn't do much for me at all. I don't doubt that some of them are killer.
I suppose that, if I have an actual point, it's the old cliche— you really have to try them out yourself. Some people say to seek out electric guitars that sound the best un-amplified, and they'll have the best tone, but you still have to want to actually play them and for me the feel is huge.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 23, 2019 22:37:58 GMT -6
I know this isn’t the guitar forum, but certain privileges come with owning the forum If you were buying a Strat and Les Paul, which models would you buy. I guess I’m talking bang for buck. I’ve got an American Standard Tele and all the rest of my guitars are cheap ones. So cheap necks, cheap pickups, etc. The Tele stays in tune and the stock pickups sound like, well...a Tele. Just wondering if there are like certain years/models that there’s a consensus on. One day I’d love to have a cool tele, strat, Les Paul and Firebird. Fender Classic series? Roadworn? Most of my guitars are relatively current cheap ones (Squiers, Epiphones), often with pickup swaps or other minor mods. A few of my guitars are vintage, mostly acoustics. Most of my viontage electrics are, sadly, gone. I have a couple of fairly recent top brand instruments.
If I was buying a current Strat and Les Paul I seriously doubt that I'd pay a hell of a lot of attention to which "models" (in the current way of looking at that) they were. Other than the fact that there are dogs, turkeys, and a few great instruments in most lines these days I'd be paying far more attention to the particular individual instrument than to the company's "model".
However in most cases for a serious instrument I'd be looking at vintage bargains. I got my '59 J-200 for about $4,500 because it had been (impeccably) refinished after repair of two very minor cracks. And at going prices it would have been well over 10 grand with the original finish (and you couldn't tell without a close inspection.) And, as a refin, I don't feel too bad about beating it up a bit when I play the hell out of it.
I'll also pay a bit over market if a guitar really speaks to me. I paid around $500 over book for my '64 Guild D-40, simply because when I picked it up (not intending to buy a guitar that day) is spoke to me in a voice that brooked no nonsense saying "I AM your guitar!" That was a couple years before the J-200 came along.
They're both amazing instruments.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2019 3:21:03 GMT -6
I’m with JohnE above, you’ve got to hold and play a guitar to know: nothing else matters. Given where you live, kinda guitar Mecca, guess find some time to make the rounds and have fun looking?
But if you have the cash, love indie’s approach build to order, cus they will ask you all the detailed question so the guitar is as you wish plus do final set up: nice !
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Post by levon on Dec 24, 2019 6:04:53 GMT -6
One thing I learned about instruments is - you don't get bang for the buck, you get what you pay for. I thought I was happy with a budget guitar, until I played an expensive one. There are lots of inexpensive and good instruments, G&L, certain Epiphones, but if you want to feel inspired playing a guitar, you need a good, high-quality instrument. And that doesn't come for cheap. Good parts, quality material, experienced labor and artisanal skills have a price. The same goes for all other studio gear, btw. You don't get the 'mojo' of a Neve or Pultec for cheap.
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Post by mattbroiler on Dec 24, 2019 7:09:32 GMT -6
when that idea pops into your head "I should get a good strat or tele" you are probably already on a mission to get that certain one you want even though you might not know exactly what that is on the subject of strats whatever you get I recommend upgrading the hardware to Killer Guitar Components brass block and bridge plate also their whammy bars and angled spring claw are great. Callaham is also excellent for usa made strat and tele hardware upgrades especially their bridges are about the best out there and very reasonable prices not expensive. Changing out the tremolo block in any strat is pretty much a must in my opinion the stock ones are nothing special and have crappy dead tone in most cases. I built myself a custom strat out of made in mexico neck/body/loaded pickguard plus the KGC and Callaham parts and it kills (noiseless neck & middle pickups humbucker bridge 5 way super switch plus S1 switching + 2 push pull tone pots (neck pickup always on and flip phase on middle pickup) makes for something like 12 different pickup combinations). MIM strats have the same electronics just less fancy wiring so I don't see usa made as a big quality difference among the less expensive Fender strats. Exactly which features you want within your price range is what matters with all of the excellent choices available these days. G&L is fab for Teles but you already have one. I'm thinking about selling one of these but have not taken pics and put it out there yet. Awesome guitar but I have quite a few and just have not played it much the last year or so: glguitars.com/product/asat-classic-alnico/ |
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Post by theshea on Dec 24, 2019 7:14:02 GMT -6
What amps you got?
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Post by Guitar on Dec 24, 2019 7:17:36 GMT -6
I think for fenders the American Standards or whatever they are called now (American Professional) are indeed sort of the standard. I have a couple strats that are pretty special, from the late '90s.
For a gibson style guitar I would recommend probably to stick with the Gibson brand, rather than Epiphone, but I wouldn't buy the expensive one, maybe a Studio or Special or something like those. I do like the epiphone hollow bodies, though. For example, the 335 Pro is a pretty special instrument, and not terribly expensive.
Any/every guitar can be "upgraded." So don't worry too much about pickups and things like that. You might want to pimp out some of the cheap ones you already have, if any of them seem promising.
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Post by swafford on Dec 24, 2019 7:48:28 GMT -6
IMO the very best Strat values are the Fender American Standard made between 1986-88.
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Post by Ward on Dec 24, 2019 8:46:05 GMT -6
1982 Is behind question the finest year of the Les Paul. Standards and customs. At least from all the ones I’ve owned/own. Which are 1955 56 57 59 60 70 75 79 80 81 82 83 85 87 90 92 95 99 2000
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 24, 2019 8:57:16 GMT -6
1982 Is behind question the finest year of the Les Paul. Standards and customs. At least from all the ones I’ve owned/own. Which are 1955 56 57 59 60 70 75 79 80 81 82 83 85 87 90 92 95 99 2000 Damn what was wrong with the 59 and 60? Any chance you still have those? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 24, 2019 11:44:34 GMT -6
Easy answer. The best bang for the buck are the Les Paul Studios. They sound just like any classic Les Paul, and play beautifully. The only real difference is the lack of binding on the neck, but that just makes them feel a bit like a 57' Les Paul Jr. and really isn't a big deal. Between $600-$900 used, you can find one cherry mint. It doesn't get more classic than a Les Paul, especially considering you have a Fender sound already. Don't confuse Les Pauls with only the over-driven gunslinger lead guitar sounds, they can be as clean and chimey as you need.
It's one of those things where you can have used a dozen good sounding guitars, and then you plug the Les Paul in and go, oh, there it is!
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Post by Guitar on Dec 24, 2019 12:21:34 GMT -6
I would also avoid the chambered les pauls. I tried one from a friend but there was something "weird" about it that put me off.
The flat bodied les pauls (Juniors, specials) can be great too. I actually, personally, prefer them to the carved top ones, for my own playing style. I find them more comfortable and ergonomic on the body/hands.
If you get a P90 one I can highly recommend the Mojotone Quiet Coil P90s, they sound as good as any P90 but without the wicked 60 Hz humming. That's been my main guitar for the past half year or so. Brand is Agile but you probably would want a Gibson if you could afford the name brand.
It's one of those instruments that will give back whatever you put into it, very dynamic and expressive.
My humbucker les paul only gets picked up once in a while. It's a special guitar, for sure, just not my personal benchmark. If you want to tear the walls down, it's just the right thing for that style of playing. An absolute "beast" of a guitar.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 24, 2019 13:23:06 GMT -6
Depending on what you buy budget another hundred or so for a pro setup. Gibson is plekking everything now I think, which should theoretically mean a damn good setup, but I’ve heard that even then things can often be improved.
But yeah, you kinda have to sit down with the individual instrument.
Coming from single coil land you might find Les Pauls a bit muddy or lacking in high end. Good ones shouldn’t be. You can also try Gretsch and Firebird styles for more brightly/twangy in a Humbucker style. And, there’s also the noiseless single coils. I haven’t met one I’ve personally loved, but there’s lots of new ones I haven’t tried.
A good Tele is a good thing to have and covers a lot of ground. Hold on to that.
Personally I’d add Gretsch to your list. Some of their Electromatic lines are decent and not too much dough. Then again there’s a ton of stuff from overseas that seem to be pretty decent quality and/or a cheap mod platform. Could be one way to go.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by dmo on Dec 24, 2019 20:31:11 GMT -6
I've played a number of "newer" frender/gibsons at various USO centers over the years, some were ok but none struck me as very special or prompted me to try to find ones back stateside. Donated guitars so likely low end models, touched by many hands and not well maintained which may have been a factor - but no magic. Agree with consensus that it really comes down to hands on and does it speak to you when you play it.
My #1 for the last 32 years wasn't a planned purchase. Graduation present to self out of med school was a Boogie Mk III, when I went to pick it up the sales rep had me play it before taking home. Hadn't brought my guitar so he handed me a new brand line they were starting to sell - a PRS custom 24. It just felt right and seemed to allow me to play better. I had stretched the budget for the amp though, so I just took the amp home that day. Over the next 2 weeks or so when I'd sit down to play it just felt like a struggle, so I went back to the store intending to bite the bullet, but when I got there that particular guitar wasn't on the wall. The salesman had me try all the other PRS there (was at least 10) - none of them created that same magic. As I prepared to leave disappointed, he said he'd check in the back to see if any new ones had arrived. Few minutes he walks out with cased PRS with a hold tag - he'd put mine away the day I played it because he said he could tell I'd found a spark with that guitar and thought I'd be back for it. It's not the best humbucker tone I own ( that would be my Suhr), but it still is the first one I pick up, especially when I haven't played in weeks/months. Play as many as you can, and if you find "the one" take it home and make great music.
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Post by WKG on Dec 24, 2019 22:04:26 GMT -6
Can't help much on particular years. I usually don't think about it as I end up modifying anyways.
One of my favorites is a build I did with a Fender road worn alder body I picked up. Put a Warmoth neck, Callaham bridge, locking tuners and noiseless pickups on it. Light weight, articulate and growly.
My other strat started as a 2001 Ash American Standard but also got a Warmoth soft v profile neck, noiseless pickups and a Callaham vibrato block.
I've got a Squier Classic vibe 60's tele that I put Fender nocasters in along with a Rutters bridge. It kills. I ran the rack of Fender CS tele's when I picked it up and nothing grabbed me like the inexpensive classic vibe.
I tinker with nearly every guitar I get. The Agile 3100 LP copy got Seymour Duncans. I actually plays better than most Gibsons I've owned or played.
The only one I haven't is the Fly Mojo 2003. It is stock with the exception of a slightly shorter vibrato bar. People have strong opinions about the Fly but that guitar is like a Maserati from Neptune, resonant, sleek and screams.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 25, 2019 9:39:01 GMT -6
Depending on what you buy budget another hundred or so for a pro setup. Gibson is plekking everything now I think, which should theoretically mean a damn good setup, but I’ve heard that even then things can often be improved. But yeah, you kinda have to sit down with the individual instrument. Coming from single coil land you might find Les Pauls a bit muddy or lacking in high end. Good ones shouldn’t be. You can also try Gretsch and Firebird styles for more brightly/twangy in a Humbucker style. And, there’s also the noiseless single coils. I haven’t met one I’ve personally loved, but there’s lots of new ones I haven’t tried. A good Tele is a good thing to have and covers a lot of ground. Hold on to that. Personally I’d add Gretsch to your list. Some of their Electromatic lines are decent and not too much dough. Then again there’s a ton of stuff from overseas that seem to be pretty decent quality and/or a cheap mod platform. Could be one way to go. Cheers, Geoff I’ve wondered about just taking all my guitars in and say, “set these up and do whatever you need to make them sound the best they can sound.” Replacing nuts, bridges, etc. sometimes I wonder if what I don’t care for is more about terrible setup and intonation. |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 25, 2019 9:54:44 GMT -6
I know this isn’t the guitar forum, but certain privileges come with owning the forum If you were buying a Strat and Les Paul, which models would you buy. I guess I’m talking bang for buck. I’ve got an American Standard Tele and all the rest of my guitars are cheap ones. So cheap necks, cheap pickups, etc. The Tele stays in tune and the stock pickups sound like, well...a Tele. Just wondering if there are like certain years/models that there’s a consensus on. One day I’d love to have a cool tele, strat, Les Paul and Firebird. Fender Classic series? Roadworn? For me I don't longer buy by a brand names and I do my own custom shop guitar - out of cheap ones. With my Tele I just made sure that I had a thicker D shape neck form and the body had to be ash wood. Luckly the frets have been thicker ones. I like thick frets because I believe they transport a better connection with the neck, special because I give them all some glue to make sure they are connected in the slot. In the end I dressed the frets. For the mechanics I took german Schallers thats Fender like. I striped the lacqour and sanded the body, gave it a nice wax finish. Changed the headstock to look a little bit more like a Fender Tele headstock. The pickups have been good enough stock, I may change the neck PU one day the Bridge pickup is with backplate - sounds great as it is. I now have custom made Tele for about 500-600 Dollars. I like the guitar and won't sell it for the rest of my live. |
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Post by matt on Dec 25, 2019 11:06:17 GMT -6
One day I’d love to have a cool tele, strat, Les Paul and Firebird. Oh man, set your budget and get out there! In your area, with the variety of dealers you have, you should be able to find suitable instruments in any price range. There is (almost) nothing better than shopping for guitars! I've run across instruments for sale that had issues and I always bring things to the attention of the sales person. Heck, once at my local Sam Ash I told them that there was no way they'd sell a new Explorer they had due to a poor setup and lo and behold, they had a tech set it up. I went back to the store and ultimately didn't buy it but the difference was extreme, going from "this is terrible" to "can I afford it right now?". That day it got beat out by a Fender Dragon Tele but I am a sucker for anything Jimmy Page. It was total happenstance- two Dragons were dropped off by FedEx while I was deciding on the Gibson and they were unboxing them on the sales floor. Needless to say, my attention was diverted. I tend to stick to brand names but that's me. I would consider names beyond Fender and Gibson such as Suhr, Nash, G&L, etc if the instrument was prefect. Hands-on shopping is preferred, but I've bought online with good luck from Wildwood. My Artisan Tele arrived from them set up like a dream, what a guitar!  |
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Post by Guitar on Dec 25, 2019 11:10:59 GMT -6
Depending on what you buy budget another hundred or so for a pro setup. Gibson is plekking everything now I think, which should theoretically mean a damn good setup, but I’ve heard that even then things can often be improved. But yeah, you kinda have to sit down with the individual instrument. Coming from single coil land you might find Les Pauls a bit muddy or lacking in high end. Good ones shouldn’t be. You can also try Gretsch and Firebird styles for more brightly/twangy in a Humbucker style. And, there’s also the noiseless single coils. I haven’t met one I’ve personally loved, but there’s lots of new ones I haven’t tried. A good Tele is a good thing to have and covers a lot of ground. Hold on to that. Personally I’d add Gretsch to your list. Some of their Electromatic lines are decent and not too much dough. Then again there’s a ton of stuff from overseas that seem to be pretty decent quality and/or a cheap mod platform. Could be one way to go. Cheers, Geoff I’ve wondered about just taking all my guitars in and say, “set these up and do whatever you need to make them sound the best they can sound.” Replacing nuts, bridges, etc. sometimes I wonder if what I don’t care for is more about terrible setup and intonation. I think anything at all, even for example a cheap volume or tone pot that doesn't feel great, will keep you from loving an instrument. Bad tuners, and so on. Everything has to be 100% for me to want to pick up a guitar. Sometimes, especially with cheaper instruments, there is a lot of work to do. It is very rare that you (I) can get an instrument fresh out of the box and it needs nothing. The closest ones I have seen in this regard were my PRS SE 24, and more recently a Supro Black Holiday. I would hope that at a higher price point this would be less of an issue, but I'm not even sure if that's the case. Even my thousand-ish dollar guitars needed pickup changes and things like that. Also I say to pay special attention to the frets. If anything at all is less that perfect with the frets you will feel it immediately. I handed a friend of mine a guitar (USA strat) that had recently been through the fret dress and level process and he was blown away. Feels like butter in the hands. Action, intonation, nut, neck relief (truss rod) are also factors like you said. Pickup height is another big one, it's more imporant than you might think, to get the guitar to speak correctly. As well as string to string balance if there are any adjustable pole pieces. I have even met a person who's been through luthiery school that doesn't know how to do all this stuff, so maybe taking the instrument to a professional is a good call for most players. |
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