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Post by schmalzy on Jun 22, 2021 8:04:14 GMT -6
I'll reference to reset my ears. Using SPAN I'll check my mix volume against whatever the source volume is so they're level matched.
I'll also reference - again, level matched - if I'm pushing something really hard. If the mix wants a ton of low end, or really aggressive guitars, or super bright vocals, yada yada yada... Brains are dumb and too quickly we get acclimated to odd-sounding shit. The reference tracks get used to make sure I'm not going too crazy far with anything.
I mix most of my track without a master limiter. As I approach the middle end of a mix I drop on my mastering loudness chain so I can hear what will happen to my transients, width, ambience effects, etc. as the volume gets pushed in the mastering process. Inevitably I end up turning the drums up a little more and pushing a little more side volume to get "back" to the balance I was hearing before the loudness chain.
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Post by schmalzy on Jun 9, 2021 14:53:52 GMT -6
What's the cliff notes version? The video is 1 minute long. He plays a comparison between the two. I'm suspicious about the comparison because the first cut is at a transition point between sections in the song. The next times he cut I had my eyes closed and I got an interesting result. I'm not the most eagle-eared. He's normally pretty reliable (regarding level-matching, etc.) when it comes to comparisons so - while I'm suspicious - I'd bet any differences a person might hear are really there. The full-res files are available if you'd like to compare.
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Post by schmalzy on Jun 9, 2021 14:02:05 GMT -6
Soooooo...someone on the internet did a test.
I figured - if nothing else - you cats might want to hear it! It's on YouTube but there's a link to some downloadable files, too.
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Post by schmalzy on Jun 7, 2021 12:40:25 GMT -6
Typically I'm using Valhalla Vintage Verb set to chamber, room, plate...whichever feels good that day. Other times I'll use Kush Goldplate.
Similar to Svart, if I need a "mid-length" room thing OR if I have a mono room mic, I'll add Valhalla VV to the track (prior to any compression), mix it 25%-40% wet with a 600ms-ish reverb time, and add that in to give some width. Tweak pre-delay to feel good. Some M/S plugin's middle gain to pull the middle down a little if I want it all feeling spread out a bit more.
Snare room sample if I need a big snare "pow" in an open section of a song. If it's something I've tracked, I'll trigger the tracking-day-snare-sample room mic I made between songs to provide that even if it's just a one-shot. There's something noticeably interesting to me about leaning in to the uniqueness of the space a recording was made in if it's at all possible.
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Post by schmalzy on May 24, 2021 15:10:09 GMT -6
Re-reading that message from me sounds a little stand-off-ish. Definitely wasn't intended! Sorry about that! I kind of thought that's where this would go. A LOT of people just prefer the older stuff. Are our preferences identifying that as something we like, do we like it because it's what we've heard the most, or is it fairly objectively better? It's an interesting thought experiment for me. I didn't hear any of these bands until the last couple years so I don't have any attachment to the older stuff. My favorite mix out of all of it is that WSS track. It's just the most exciting and that's what I want emotionally from this genre. The low end from that Wage War track is cool. The LOG track is a GREAT song. That BMTH track is my least favorite of them. I'm pretty sure Machine said that LOG track was ITB. Kicks are entirely triggered. BMTH was definitely OTB. Fredrick Nordstrom at Studio Fredman back whenever they did it. Wage War was ITB mix with analog 2-bus. Knowing who mixed it suggests it was a blend of Kemper and real guitar amps. That While She Sleeps track is mixed by Carl Bown (a Colin Richardson engineer and partner). I don't know for sure that it's OTB but as far as I can tell everything he's been doing is hybrid or OTB for everything. I saw an educational thing he did and he was translating all of his original hardware moves to plugins. It's super interesting to see what everyone's identifying as the telltale signs of the different methods! I'm not saying necessarily that the "closed in sound" is bad it's just not my preference, after all a direct LCR is a very powerful sound and in the right instance it can really hit home. As for LOG, which metal band doesn't trigger their kicks? Honestly pretty much every band I've come across or worked with does, I mean OTB as in recording chain not instruments. I know they've generally worked with major studio's though which was all OTB.. If you like WW, you'll probably like Periphery.. They are ITB / Axe FX / Superior drummer and it's not my cup of tea production wise but the songs are pretty cool TBH.. I'm aware of Periphery. That's a great recommendation if I weren't, though! I'm not really a fan of Wage War either. I just know a lot of people say they like the sound of that record. The new Holding Absence (mixed by the same guy who mixed Periphery before Nolly started doing it all) sounds pretty bonkers but the SONGS are really great. It might be worth checking out. That kick trigger thing was more of a noted thing more than an accusation. It sounds he didn't even play a kick in the room and it was programmed later. A thing I hear a lot from guys in that era. A lot of the earlier Periphery stuff was Nolly's modded 5150 into a Mesa oversized cab. Drums are played live, edited, sample reinforced. Nolly mixes on headphones on a laptop and that's bonkers to me! Machine made it sound a lot like he mixed that LOG record entirely ITB.
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Post by schmalzy on May 24, 2021 13:25:59 GMT -6
Are there any modern records you like? LOTS of people are still using hardware. I'm curious if it's the era of sounds/songs your like or if it is the sonics of the hardware. Spot the ITB mixes? LOG - I know what they use so it’s cheating (OTB) BMTH - I’ve actually met BMTH, they record in Steel City Sheffield and they are without a doubt OTB. WAGE WAR - I’m guessing periphery style ITB Axe FX stuff. While She Sleeps - I mean it’s powerful but it does have that closed in sound, it’s either ITB or a not so great OTB mix. I didn't look it up so go for it .. Re-reading that message from me sounds a little stand-off-ish. Definitely wasn't intended! Sorry about that! I kind of thought that's where this would go. A LOT of people just prefer the older stuff. Are our preferences identifying that as something we like, do we like it because it's what we've heard the most, or is it fairly objectively better? It's an interesting thought experiment for me. I didn't hear any of these bands until the last couple years so I don't have any attachment to the older stuff. My favorite mix out of all of it is that WSS track. It's just the most exciting and that's what I want emotionally from this genre. The low end from that Wage War track is cool. The LOG track is a GREAT song. That BMTH track is my least favorite of them. I'm pretty sure Machine said that LOG track was ITB. Kicks are entirely triggered. BMTH was definitely OTB. Fredrick Nordstrom at Studio Fredman back whenever they did it. Wage War was ITB mix with analog 2-bus. Knowing who mixed it suggests it was a blend of Kemper and real guitar amps. That While She Sleeps track is mixed by Carl Bown (a Colin Richardson engineer and partner). I don't know for sure that it's OTB but as far as I can tell everything he's been doing is hybrid or OTB for everything. I saw an educational thing he did and he was translating all of his original hardware moves to plugins. It's super interesting to see what everyone's identifying as the telltale signs of the different methods!
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Post by schmalzy on May 24, 2021 11:52:05 GMT -6
Are there any modern records you like? LOTS of people are still using hardware. I'm curious if it's the era of sounds/songs your like or if it is the sonics of the hardware. Spot the ITB mixes?
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Post by schmalzy on May 24, 2021 10:54:05 GMT -6
To me it's so much more about workflow than it is about the specific gear.
Sure, if I had an endless number of the best hardware things and no revisions I'd probably be happier with my output. Maybe not.
I DO know for certain that the rough mixes I do with standard channel strips of plugins aren't as good as my rough mixes I do with Console1 plugs. Are the Console1 plugins better than Waves, UAD, Boz Digital, Kush, etc.? I don't care.
My results ARE better when I emulate the hardware workflow as much as possible (Console1 to mix with my hands and trackpad to ride faders) and if we're going further with the mix I'll pull out the specialty plugins like the Boz and Kush stuff for the special things they do. I LOVE how the Electra EQ sounds (it's pretty flexible in an SSL EQ sort of way). I also love how the Kush/Sly-Fi Axis (much more API 550-like in usage) sounds. Console1's SSL and "American Class A" (API, basically) get me better results.
If I had a pile of hardware channel strips would I get better results? My results using Console1's SSL EQ is better than when I tried to EQ a pile of channels through my Allen & Heath GL4 console for a rough mix. They're all decent enough EQs and I like 'em for tracking but didn't give me a rough mix result I liked as much as the Console1 rough mix.
Workflow.
Would a pile of super high-quality hardware channel strips sound so good that it overcomes the workflow advantages of Console1? Maybe? Possibly? But we're talking a lot of money for a maybe.
Maybe my brains and emotions are more attached to the physical actions I take than to small wrist moves and numbers on a screen. I truthfully don't care. If my artists are happy, I'm happy, and I continue to get better then I'll do whatever I can in my budget to make it work.
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Post by schmalzy on May 19, 2021 13:35:47 GMT -6
I've heard of a number of people breaking Beta52s by putting it in a bad spot (due to the size). That weird spot makes it really susceptible to big air blasts coming through the hole in the kick head.
I think that spot is where the capsule is right in the sound hole...all that air is trying to escape at the same time and being funneled through this small hole and rushing by the capsule putting a ton of pressure on it.
...other than that I've never heard of anyone actually breaking a kick mic.
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Post by schmalzy on May 4, 2021 15:02:49 GMT -6
Hpf everything. Using small amounts of distortion creates harmonics in upper octaves that reinforce the tone we hear. Create enough of those harmonics and you can remove the fundamental frequency altogether and still "hear" it. Look up the "missing fundamental" effect. You can make small speakers sound like they're playing notes lower than they're physically capable of this way. It's how things like Rbass work. That's been my modus operandi so far, and it works. HPF, harmonics, use the missing fundamental effect for smaller speakers. Now I wonder if I can have my cake and eat it too, and get the same results with less phase shift and with some instruments with no HPF. I’ll throw the strange monkey wrench into this discussion, what type of HPF slope are you using? Whatever is in the Console 1 SSL 4000E emulation. Probably 12 db/oct? I'm often using the Console 1 American Class A hpf. They seem super gentle, though. I prefer the C1 SSL filter but prefer the sound of the American Class A, Summit, or British Class A strips. I hpf my mixes around 30. 6db/oct with ReaEQ in Reaper. It's the first thing on my master bus. Lowest sound source doesn't get a hpf on the channel (but gets the filter on the whole mix) Next sound source up gets a filter somewhere around 60. Often it's a bass guitar/synth and it's the slightly resonant filter from the Kush Electra plugin. Everything else gets hpf as high as I can go before I hear it remove something I want.
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 23, 2021 1:23:01 GMT -6
Another vote for the Vanguard V13 from me.
I like them a lot. They get used a ton in my setup. I bought two and am really glad I have 'em both.
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 16, 2021 15:13:02 GMT -6
I've had a really good time mixing a record with my Console 1 and the Softube API emulation ("American Class A"). I love the fixed frequencies of the eq, the fixed steps, how a 2dB boost REALLY boosts things, etc. Edit: I was really thinking of the 550A, not the 560! I have AmClassA, too. I like it a lot. Where are you running your drive/drive character knobs? It feels way more wild and out-of-control than the drive/drive character parameters on other C1 strips.
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 6, 2021 13:55:55 GMT -6
I thought I was crazy when a guy brought in his Nord and I didn't think it sounded good. He was 100% certain it was the best thing possible for the sounds he was going for.
I was like..."maybe I'm wrong but we're going to want to record MIDI as well as the tone just in case we want to...you know...uhhhhh...run it back out to the Nord so you can play the controls with two hands! Yeah! That's what I meant!"
I'm SO glad I did. I had two free plugs and a couple paid ones that all sounded better. I'm glad I went with my gut and I'm always happy to be reassured by cats like you all here!
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 4, 2021 23:27:28 GMT -6
I like to use Fatheads in a few spots. They're great on drums. We have high shelf EQs for a reason; use 'em on a Fathead overhead pair and you'll probably be happy as long as that sort of sound is in the ballpark for appropriate for your sonic goals.
They're a bit dark especially within heavy proximity effect range. Most of the time on guitar amps I pair 'em with something brighter and put the Fathead on the brightest spot on the amp in the most perfect phase alignment as I can attain with two different-sounding mics. It has a different midrange characteristic plus a ton of weight in the low end. Sometimes it's right and sometimes it gets muted.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 29, 2021 23:02:30 GMT -6
This is what I was going to ask. What's the goal of these experiments? How is this helping you make art? The only time I find myself going down these sorts of roads is when I'm avoiding making music...when I should instead just be making music for myself or my artists! I hear what you are saying. I do think it is a question of balance. Even being on these boards is not exactly making music. But part of the joy of making the music for me - whether it is the instruments or pro audio equipment - is the process. And for me, I like to understand the instruments and the equipment better. And when I do - for instance, if I record a grand piano and I am lucky enough to record it really well - I want it to be preserved through the end process as much as possible. If others feel differently, that is cool. It's not a criticism. It's a question. For you, knowing all of this stuff and intellectualizing all the pieces makes you want to make great music. Awesome! For me, if I'm doing something like this I know I'm avoiding something. That's why I was asking. I wanted to be sure you were doing something in pursuit of making cool stuff rather than in avoidance of making cool stuff! Why am I on this message board right this second? I'm waiting for a song to bounce out of my system so I can send to a client...before I tune vocals and reamp a couple tracks for a different client. I'm excited for your project! Keep us updated about how it's going!
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 29, 2021 22:32:20 GMT -6
Are you engaging in a science experiment or making a record? This is what I was going to ask. What's the goal of these experiments? How is this helping you make art? The only time I find myself going down these sorts of roads is when I'm avoiding making music...when I should instead just be making music for myself or my artists!
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 15:51:33 GMT -6
Can you do this mix with no Tom mikes, double the overheads and eq them differently and see if bleed from other mikes can be the toms friends ? I have a solution for it. I'm going to take the samples I recorded and drop those into place (as phase accurately as possible) instead of those tom hits plus manually gating all the tom tracks. ...but I've definitely gone that route when I've received drum tracks without tom mics before!
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 15:15:55 GMT -6
So, the overheads are clean, no noise? Overheads are clean. They went through preamps outside the console, though. The tom mic for the next tom over in the next channel on the console is also clean.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 15:14:00 GMT -6
I haven't heard a sound liek that since like Win98 and some lousy Maudio drivers...they would like go corrupted somehow over the length of the session...and I would record stuff that sounded EXACTLY like that that. So are you telling me you have a drum kit mic'd with say 6-10 mics...and ONLY this one had this issue? Or the whole 8th take of drums all the mics had this? This sounds like what computer issues sound like. I don't know how you could mimic that garbled crackly crap with something in an analog chain in. I would say it's the Apollo...if you hear that "live"--I would want to unplug that channel from the Apollo and plug it immediately back into the desk--rule out the whole analog chain right there--then maybe into a different input on the Apollo? They ARE using digital controlled analog on any of the inputs with preamps... This IS on a Mac...and NOT aggregating devices? Or are you trying to use an Apollo on Windows? Check a different FW cable? One of those being intermittent basically makes this sound of clocking signal being lost. As to a fix--it's easy enough to use the good overheads to generate a Tom sample, either from another take or a sample library...and salvage--that said, I also applaud trying to get to the root. Just because we CAN fix stuff doesn't mean we should HAVE to... I had a band mic'd with 17 mics. 13 through the console (two room/talkback mics summed down to a single channel for those doing i/o math later). This is the only mic and the only take with that noise. It's a tom mic so at least it's not super critical. Two different converters: Apollo 8 (via Thunderbolt) and a Focusrite Octopre MkII Dynamic (hooked up and clocked to the Apollo via ADAT going both ways). Computer is a Mac. Reaper is the DAW (though that won't matter). All preamps are outboard with no digital components. This messed up tom mic was going into the Apollo. I intend to just drop samples onto those hits that are wonky - luckily I took 8 different sample hits of this tom directly after this take and they sound great - but my whole ethos as an engineer is "use the band performances for all their worth until you absolutely can't...and then do everything else that's necessary to make it great" so I'd love to solve the problem before the next band is in!
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 15:03:10 GMT -6
It is...I should have specified. Sorry!
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 15:01:57 GMT -6
It’s always in the loudest spots sure there is not clipping in your daw or check every part in your mix path to see if something is clipping, it has a funny quality to it , what mike and pre were used? Mic was a Sennheiser 604 and the preamp is the preamp on my Allen & Heath GL4 console. Unity at the fader, unity at the Aux output. Definitely not clipped anywhere. Converter is set to unity gain and peaks were 12db below 0dbfs. I turned it up for the export. The noise isn't consistent, though. There are some times where the tom is ringing with no static but the quieter snare hits a moment later ARE causing the static...then it drops to super quiet and gated even though there was no adjustment, then it pops back in to the bleed sounding "good" for a bit afterwards. I'm stumped.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 14:55:46 GMT -6
Drag, but if you have 9 takes, you must be able to comp these noise parts out ? They all be lined up in your daw: right? All live tracked with a full band and no click, fills were all improvised and were always a touch different, importantly the cymbals weren't consistent going in and out of the fills/sections. So no, I can't comp it out. I DEFINITELY tried, though.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 14:36:09 GMT -6
Hey, all! A super annoying problem just popped up in a song I tracked recently. I have a track with some static/noise/shorts. I was hoping someone could identify what the problem is so I can make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. Unfortunately I'm just not well-versed enough in all of the various messed up sounds that can happen to a signal to be able to figure it out. Does the group mind offer a diagnosis? I didn't hear it during tracking and it's only on one take of the performances - the last of 9 takes total and the best take by a mile. Five minutes later we recorded drum samples and there's no static or gating sounds in the samples. In fact, it's only in the last 2 minutes of the take. It's not even the whole take! Signal chain: Sennheiser 604->mic cable->stage box->Allen & Heath GL4 console preamp->Aux Out->patchbay->Apollo converter. You'll notice there's no processing and definitely no noise gate. The signal SOUNDS like it gets gated at certain times, though. Here's a link to 20 sec portion of the file so you can hear it: drive.google.com/file/d/1xz7mzHF1QYjCnkAaQcGJRNdjw74dt2EF/view?usp=sharingAny thoughts? I'd love to make sure I get it sorted out but I don't really know where to start since it didn't happen before or after this one take, everything was torn down before it was noticed, and theoretically nothing changed or was moved between take 8 (with no static/noise/shorts), take 9 (with the static/noise/shorts), and the drum samples (with no static/noise/shorts). Thanks for any guidance/help you can lend!
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2021 3:50:44 GMT -6
A little clipping from JST Clip, a little limiting from Reaper's Event Horizon, and then I'll use the VladG Limiter N°6.
I like the last little clipping and ISP protection the VladG Limiter N°6 has.
I'm definitely trying to get my loudness from the mix and not work to find it in a mastering process. JST Clip tells me audibly when I'm pushing too hard. Event Horizon tells me audibly when I'm pushing too hard. I like knowing with no uncertainty about stuff like that.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 2, 2021 17:10:08 GMT -6
Ragan did a good job. Maybe expand a bit. A resonant frequency is one that a system will respond to sympathetically. Every system has multiple resonant frequencies. Each resonant frequency corresponds to what is called a mode shape. We deal with these things all the time intuitively. Simple one is a guitar string. If you pluck it, you get the resonant frequency of the string. As you increase or decrease the tension, the string gets more or less stiff and the frequency moves up and down - tuning. If you put a mic'd or electric guitar up to the speaker/amp, it will begin to resonate by feedback. BUT! Not if you put it head on, so the string is pointing straight out from the speaker. That's because the mode shape, the shape the string takes from that exciting frequency, has a certain directionality to it. You're dealing with mode shapes when you dampen drums. When you strike an object, you excite all of its mode shapes and resonant frequencies at the same time. You can actually measure them if you have an accelerometer. By putting pads or goo or a ring in certain places on a drum youre reducing or eliminating certain mode shapes that correspond to certain frequencies. So, when you hit the drum those frequencies can't ring. Every resonant frequency corresponds with a specific mode shape. Back to the guitar string - there is a mode shape at the string's open note. If you pluck a 12th fret harmonic, you excite the second mode, which is double the frequency. If you pluck a 7th fret you get the third mode. 5th fret you get the fourth mode. 4th or 9th fret you excite the fifth mode. Each one of these corresponds to increasing number of nodes on the string which don't move and a different mode shape-frequency. Like this (not my image): A guitar string is simple...a drum is not. Here are some drum mode shapes. Then imagine something that isn't more or less two dimensional. You get all kinds of crazy possible mode shapes. And each mode corresponds to a specific frequency. OK. A fundamental is a couple of things: - the lowest excitable resonant frequency of a system (with its corresponding mode shape) - the lowest frequency component of a complex vibration mode or signal This can come out in a lot of ways. In an amplifier, the note you put will be a fundamental, and all distortion will be harmonic overtones on top of that in integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. On that guitar string, the fundamental is the open string so you can talk about the E string's harmonic overtones as multiples of 82.41 Hz, but G will be multiples of 196 Hz. If you play the same note on multiple instruments (say, A at 440Hz), the difference between how those things sound is their overtones, and the 440 Hz they make is the fundamental. And this graph of the drum modes is why you can't REALLY tune a drum to a note. Those all happen fairly simultaneously. You tune a drum to a whole bunch of notes and depending on a million other things you get something that sounds like a note (and other notes). Brains are dumb. Drums are fun.
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