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Post by jeromemason on May 18, 2015 1:05:41 GMT -6
where is it available for 150, audio deluxe has it for 175? cheers Wiz Gotta put it in yo cart homie That whole MAPP thing is kinda tricky.
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Post by jeromemason on May 17, 2015 2:48:07 GMT -6
The main thing I use is the Duntech Sovereign speakers. They were bought in the late '90s for a mastering facility that never got built in San Francisco due to the immanence of SACD surround. Then Napster killed SACD along with a number of my clients dead so I was forced to tell my investors I couldn't see a brand new state of the art mastering facility paying its way. Processing-wise, I just have a pair of highly modified LA-3As, a highly modified ReVox A77 1/4" 7.5/15 two track machine, a pair of somewhat modified API 550s and Benchmark A to D and D to A converters. Beyond that I use a variety of plug-in eq. or sometimes take work to Georgetown where I do my occasional attended sessions. The Duntech speakers are merciless so my clients are usually pretty happy with a minimalist approach that sounds good on them. So would you say you are mostly cutting with the digital eq's Bob? Also, what are you using as your limiter? Also, in regards to your room, I've always wondered when it comes to mastering, what is mainly done to the room? Obviously treatment to flatten it as much as possible, but do you leave it a little live, do you make it dead? And the final question I have is do you have your speakers set up so you are a further distance away than if you were using near fields and mixing? Are the speakers placed pretty far apart? I've been in a couple of mastering facilities and I was amazed at how you could hear the details in a mix with the speakers being what I'd call so far away from the listening position. Is it possible to master with near fields and being closer to the speakers? I've never really asked a mastering engineer anything before because I'm usually just focused on the mixes and such, never really had any time to ask technical questions. Thanks Bob,
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Post by jeromemason on May 16, 2015 1:01:22 GMT -6
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Post by jeromemason on May 15, 2015 22:30:19 GMT -6
The more I use this plugin the more I can't help but get giddy about how theatric my mixes are going to sound. This is probably going to change the way I start a mix, the EFX including verbs and rooms usually came somewhere near the middle to end of the mix. Now, this will be the first thing I start to dime in before even balancing.
The engine this plugin uses to process the IR's is special as well, it almost feels like you're using a hardware unit or something. The M7 responses in this are so close to an M7 it's pretty incredible that this only cost's 150 bux. I don't know where I discovered this, but the lord was guiding my fingers on the touchpad that night brothers and sisters.
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Post by jeromemason on May 13, 2015 0:37:45 GMT -6
Just wanted to pass a long that for the price this form of low end absorption is by far the best bang for the buck I've dealt with. When I first built my traps down in FL, I had to order in the 2" Roxul boards that I layered on top of 703 FRK to trap 400hz> and left the foil on to put some mid range energy back into the room. Down in FL they don't sell Roxul in home depot's and you can't find it in bats like you can up here in Nashville.
The one I am talking about is a semi rigid, actually is pretty firm and dense, the price is where I was floored... 12 bats of this for around $45? I was able to cut triangles and stack them in one of my corners I could hear a lot of lowend build up, now there's no low end around it at all. I built myself an overhead cloud from 3 panel traps I had from my old room in FL, just a single piece of 703 on those, but I filled the space of the 2x4 up with this Roxul and you can really tell is just sucking up all that phasey lowend I was noticing when I had the Dirac off. There was a massive difference when I would flip it off before I did the cloud and that troublesome corner, but now there's a lot less.
Just wanted to pass this a long for anyone thinking about making some more traps or starting a new room project. For the money, this is some really great stuff.
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Post by jeromemason on May 12, 2015 2:37:07 GMT -6
If you're just thinking about passive summing then yes, there's tons of it, it's simple and can be done with a handful of resistors and wire. I know what I'm talking about is building a complete unit that features summing section but with an output section that works together with different stages to give the outputted program material the feeling of being mixing through a console, and a damn good console. There are some things that have not been done yet, some ideas that no one has put all together. It can be done, I'm with Cary on this, I'd love to see an all in one summing rig that made it possible to be hybrid and get that console feeling completely. it's all in the back end and creativity and quality components will get it there.
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Post by jeromemason on May 12, 2015 0:16:14 GMT -6
This could be a grassroots project. Instead of you footing the bill for parts and R&D Cary, it could be something everyone got behind and pitched in on to make happen. In the end everyone would get be given a BOM which would include the PCB's. You could either build it, or have one of us who's into DIY heavily build it for you for a cost. If we were talking about a compressor, or a D/A etc. I wouldn't suggest this, but, we are talking about something that almost near everyone needs. Something like this could be funded quickly and it could also be done quickly if it were set up this way.
I have some ideas on a signal flow chart that I work on from time to time on what I think would be the perfect summing rig. It's not finished but it's nearly. If this were to be something like a grassroots effort everyone who chooses to participate could create their own signal flow charts, placing whatever you think would be the perfect summing rig and at the end we can take the best of the best, through polls and then come together to see if any users features could be combined with other users features. Then you'd have a final vote on say 3 options and go with the winner. At that point, money that's in the pot could be paid to someone we all approve and have them draw out the schematic and board design, unless there was a designer on the list that was willing to do the design at no cost to help the cause.
Everyone would have to understand going into it from the beginning that the final design could be costly in parts, or if you choose, labor. But, you would have that BOM and PCB's to slowly piece together your kit.
Just an idea.
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Post by jeromemason on May 11, 2015 16:46:50 GMT -6
Double click the left it will ask to load the right.
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Post by jeromemason on May 11, 2015 10:49:30 GMT -6
i have a workhorse and several vp28's. would you guys recommend: 1. using the workhorse summing by itself with 4 stereo groups being sent to it from the DAW? 2. doing the above with 2 vp28's inserted on the workhorse 3. just using a hardware insert to the vp28's on my 2bus in the DAW Based on the options you suggested - 3. My experience is that the "summing" is not what we are looking for. It's in the ability to drive the gain stages, transformers, etc. in your mixing environment into their "sweet spot" for some mojo that digital looses. Some summing mixers can do that. A large percentage really can't. I agree here, that's why I find it hard to understand why so many people are looking past black Lions PM8. The cost per box is an incredible value, you're able to hit input transformers and output Transformers. Those are Edcores in there, they are good transformers. I think this is what I need to design, a version of a PM8 with cinemags and 1731 DOA's.
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Post by jeromemason on May 11, 2015 10:27:40 GMT -6
I've had Altiverb before and tried all the others, for $150 I like this the best. Being able to place the source in the IR's space is similar to what Oceanway does, and with the M7's IR's this really helps get depth. Try this one out if you're shopping for an IR reverb. hofa-plugins.de/en/plugins/iq-reverb/ jeromemason - where are you getting your M7 IR's? I was just looking for Bricasti impulses last night. I was checking out Samplicity. wiz - have you tried any Bricasti IR's in Space Designer? Sorry for the minor derail here but I was just looking into this. True M7 is the best ones I've used
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Post by jeromemason on May 11, 2015 9:00:14 GMT -6
Before buying it: Keep in mind that all internal editing of an IR reduces the qualty of the reverb. I think you would hear more problems if you tried to manually do what this plugin is doing. To push things to the back of a reverb I used to have to eq the source and do funky delay tricks etc. etc., with this I don't have to do anything and it definitely sounds better and wayyyy more realistic. The plate I loaded was what really got me. I've heard that UAD and a real plate more than a few times, and editing around with that plate made it sound just like them, maybe not the real deal plate, that's tough, but for sure the tail and tone was like a very expensive emulation. I'm not sure if you own this or have tried it yet or not, but maybe you should check it out and mess with it, I honestly cannot hear any degradation at all of the IR when it's being edited. It's just like I've got an external eq and I'm dialing in a drum room or a chamber in the studio, that's the feeling I get with it.
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Post by jeromemason on May 10, 2015 12:50:40 GMT -6
Looks really interesting, will be a tough contest between these and Classic API's new FET 500 series compressor for a slightly lower price. I haven't heard either one but I am planning on starting to fill a small lunchbox with stuff like this. I haven't really heard a lot of feedback on the 500 series Hairball stuff either, I guess they are all still pretty new besides Lola. The 526 is listed as a FET compressor but doesn't feel like one. The big differences are the 3 DOA's and the meticulous gain staging in the comp, and the FET's Jeff gets, he designed that comp around those FETs and there's not an ounce of grain in them. They also allow you to really nail them w/o choking like a FET will do. To me, the 526 is more like a VCA or a tube compressor. I would build the 526's..... what's beautiful about them is you can turn the GR off and the opamps and transformer add some beautiful girth to your tracks. I like using the 526 with just a little bit of compression and a slower release on vocals, sounds incredible. I also built the Don U76 and had it for a while, it was the closest I'd ever heard to an original Rev A. Very aggressive and if you had a bass or vocal that needed some grit, like for rock (or bro country) it was great. I'd imagine the Hairballs are similar.
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Post by jeromemason on May 9, 2015 21:54:44 GMT -6
cowboycoalminer this could be even better than Oceanway..... I was floored by how it allows positioning and how realistic it sounds. Also in the viewer how you can see exactly what your verb is doing. Hell, me and Randy messed around with a plate that comes stock with it for 2 minutes and it was knocking on UAD EMT's door, actually it was busting through it. So, you gave to me the A.O.M limiter. I give to you, the Hofa
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Post by jeromemason on May 9, 2015 15:18:33 GMT -6
The routing abilities of this box should be noted as well. You can send any channel anywhere you want via the routing function, which makes your life a hell of a lot easier. Also, it tells your core audio the same info, so it's not like you do this routing and the computer still recognizes it as a stock 16a, it's like you've created another interface, and being able to recall multiple routing setups is totally kick ass. I have one for tracking and one for mixing. When I go back to a session I was mixing after tracking it's like I never touched anything, just a smooth operation.
This box is on another level, it should cost a lot more than what it's priced at. The sound is every bit as good as a Symphony too.
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Post by jeromemason on May 9, 2015 14:32:24 GMT -6
I've had Altiverb before and tried all the others, for $150 I like this the best. Being able to place the source in the IR's space is similar to what Oceanway does, and with the M7's IR's this really helps get depth. Try this one out if you're shopping for an IR reverb. hofa-plugins.de/en/plugins/iq-reverb/
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Post by jeromemason on May 9, 2015 14:23:22 GMT -6
Everyone I talk to is telling me that PT 12 was created to change the structure of how it's licensed, nothing really worth upgrading to if you're looking for features. Just what I was told by someone that would know. I run 11, if you're still on 10 though then I would because you get the better engine. Going from 10 to 11 is like going from a mazda to a porsche.
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Post by jeromemason on May 9, 2015 14:16:08 GMT -6
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Post by jeromemason on May 9, 2015 12:15:06 GMT -6
You get me wrong here. I know there is a difference, but my console is something very diffrent from the PM8 with transformers. So to me it makes more sense if I have physical inserts, sends etc…. I mean we have summing boxes out there for insane prices. I would buy a console for the cash…. and to be fair even any midrange console will give you something over ITB, but the fun strats with outboard. And in the end of the day I have to admit that some folks know how to do it ITB. I konow I was a long time discussing this. But in the end its important taht I like waht I hear, and not a matter fo ITB or OTB. Well that's what I was basically saying, was that just your normal summing mixer/console that has a L/R resistor bus isn't going to really do anything crazy, that's why I didn't buy the Dbox when I was looking for a D/A for monitoring. So, I'm with you, I understand what you were talking about. I agree too, I'm starting to process a lot of my tracks through the Warm pultec and print them back in, even if no eq is being applied, it does make things sound much larger, again, thanks to the transformers. Jeff's 526, you can also just print tracks through it with the GR turned off and it makes the source larger and fuller thanks to his opamps and the output transformer. I think that the new model I'm going with is more of sending and printing tracks through my outboard and then using plugins to do what I want in regards to eq/compression. Saving my outboard during mix time for the most important parts of the mix. I can't afford to have walls of rack gear or the i/o needed for it, I'm just not going to invest there because if I have something that requires that I'd rather rent a room at a studio in town and let the client pay for it. But I do think it is essential to have a few pieces of outboard that you know will lend some weight to your tracks if they need it and a summing rig/console that is setup to harmonically sweeten your mix. The PM8's, every channel is a little different than the one next to it, the crosstalk as well is useable and to me helps the mix to sound more real. For Johnkenn, I think your head is in the right place about summing, but look for one that is going to lend something to your tracks, not just piece together clean audio and spit it back out of a summing bus, I think you'd be disappointed. You have a Sta, 526's, print your tracks through it w/ no compression and see if that makes you grin, I bet it will. Even more, you could change up the gain structure of each track you run through it, maybe send it more level on one and turn the input down, and on the next send less and turn the input up, just something to make little differences, I've learned recently that little differences stacked and stacked can produce a big systemic difference. That alone might give you that sound you described.
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Post by jeromemason on May 8, 2015 21:05:16 GMT -6
I'm gonna give it a try while I'm waiting for some keys/b3 to come in for a couple of tracks..... no telling how long his internet connection is "down" on this Friday night Havn't even heard it or anyone else's, sounds like fun and I've always wanted to get some mojo cooking on that vox of yours, should be fun.
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Post by jeromemason on May 8, 2015 20:58:39 GMT -6
So do you think the 526/Burl route is pretty much like having a summing box? I mixed for a long time into a 1073. Summing alone wont give you much over ITB. The real fun starts with some outboard, does not has to be high end stuff. To me working hybrid is the biggest fun. I can use the most euphonic sounding HW, as well as Plug Ins. Another advantage to me is, when the console channels are all blocked I can use missing channels ITB and mix on with a console simulation. Best of both worlds. I should do Wiz's mix w/ and w/o my BLA PM8's. Those transformers in those mixers and the imperfections alone to me feel head and shoulders above ITB. Granted, I do run the mix through VP28's before it hits the A/D but I can see what you'd mean if it were just like a resistor bus passive summing mixer, where it's basically not doing anything but summing channels L/R that are being fed, but, if you get the right type of mixers it definitely adds a lot to the sound. It makes it easier IMO when I mix through my rig, I'm not having to use near as much "stuff" to get a gelled open sound, just sort of happens.
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Post by jeromemason on May 7, 2015 18:22:50 GMT -6
Just read the manual and play with it because you can just recall whatever it is you change if you get to a point where something is out of whack. I will say this, and what I love, anything inputs or outputs you route or disable WILL effect the core audio driver which is awesome because you don't have a bunch of I/O you're not going to ever use, then it's easy to change if you ever do need it, keeps everything nice and neat.
The converter will floor you btw.... amazing sound for that price and flexibility. I love mine and I've had it for a over a month now.
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Post by jeromemason on May 7, 2015 8:35:56 GMT -6
I am curious, before plugins, how many reverbs (including plates and chambers) were used on a typical song. In todays pop music I guess you fast end up with 4 or 5 verbs and maybe the same amount in delays. My guesswork is that the old cats very often wished to have one more, but it was not possible. In a normal situation I would not need more than 3 verb units. Back / middle / front, and simulating walls with delays between 20 and 40 ms. The Cooper Time Cube is really good for the little wall ambience.
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Post by jeromemason on May 6, 2015 21:37:04 GMT -6
Maybe dump PT pref's?
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Post by jeromemason on May 6, 2015 21:16:40 GMT -6
Dude..... do yourself a favor and get Randge to get intimate on the details of his technique.... those are some of the easiest drums to mix I've ever in my life done. I did a mix the other day and I swear all I had on them was a dbx 560 on the snare with some filtering and the same on the kick, pulled a little 400 out of the OH's to open them up and no joke, I didn't have to eq or compress anything else. Just wide open and crack-ah-lackin like a mofo. Smooth.... smooth as silk those drums are.
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Post by jeromemason on May 5, 2015 0:25:54 GMT -6
I had to learn this when I was at my first job recording southern gospel. Wasn't because I needed to know the actual scales or anything, but it was so that I knew where we were in the session. If someone (and the southern gospel folks will light your ass up quick if you don't) in a session yelled back that they needed you to take it from the 4 on the 3rd bar of the 2nd verse there was no way you could know that w/o following and understanding those charts, I'd seen assistants hired that thought they could and they would get eaten alive. I guess that's why I made a fast transition when I came up here. It's something to learn, it's fast, and it's easy once you get your head wrapped around the idea. It's amazing how guys can change keys quickly and even do 2-3 key changes in a song that was not there to begin with just by scribbling the root note where the change would happen. Nothing changes on the charts, and for the guys that usually end up being the session leader and writing these the night before the session, or during the scratch run (which is amazing to watch a vet write those damn charts as the songs going) all of their work is still in tact.
When I'm running a session I'll have my copy, while the players are listening to the scratch I'll make my own little notes, things I know I'll be asked to do. If I know there is a weird lick in a song I'll number each one of them to make it quicker for me to go back to the punch, because 80% of the time you always have to, even the best players will want to go back to those and do them a little better, or give another option. There's also the repeat bars, and that's usually always where a greenhorn engineer will mess up in doing a punch if they are going by a chart, they forget the repeat bars and you hear them saying "I don't see a second verse, I don't see a second chorus" and it's sad, because that takes away from what those players had in their minds, and causes them to lose focus, it's not because they get angry or frustrated, it's just lost seconds and in this game, especially here, seconds are everything, things move 100x faster than anywhere else I've ever done anything and unless you can move with that you're not going to be everyone's favorite engineer.
Just thought I'd give an answer from a non players POV.
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