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Post by johneppstein on Sept 24, 2020 19:18:11 GMT -6
Assuming that you already have MADI on your system. And MADI is slow - it cuts your channels in half at 96, at a time when many people are going to 96k or even faster. I don't really see much reason to go above 96, but that still halves your number of channels.
As far as I know MADI offers the lowest latency you can buy. Just yesterday Dirk @ RME wrote me that a MADI+USB connection does 64 CH in simultaneous operation. I think that's still impressive.
Sure it does - at 48K. At 96 it does 32. That's what my Antelope does all by itself.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 24, 2020 13:28:55 GMT -6
To Hell with GS. We have our "studio mic lines" at the top of our patchbay normaled on channels 1-16 to our API console. I think 17-24 go to our Grace. I learned that long before there was a GS or an internet for that matter. It came out of REP magazine back in the '70s.
It's true that it's not a serious problem if only real professionals patch things in your studio, but if there are interns or other untrained people it's dangerous. And everybody makes a mistake sometime. It's a corollary of Murphy's Law and, as the very great engineers at Crown wrote in the original DC300 manual, in cases of conflict, Murphy's Law supersedes Ohm's. Therefore I try to eliminate any chances of Murphy sneaking into the studio.
If you believe that nobody will ever make a mistake in your studio, then go ahead. I am not that confident.
Of course, when you spend years as a service tech you get to see everybody's mistakes.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 24, 2020 13:05:16 GMT -6
Just as Dan said. Never turn it on until everything is connected. Always turn it off before removing the connection too. Anecdotally, what is the likelihood of damaging the mic or the preamp if someone forgets to do this? The preamp, not much. The mic, it depends on what kind it is. If it's a vintage ribbon with a grounded center tap the ribbon will likely go *poof*. Some modern ribbons, too.
There's a very small chance of damaging the phantom circuit in the preamp if it's not well designed.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 24, 2020 13:02:11 GMT -6
Had no idea so many ppl were patching mics directly into their patchbays. I thought that was strictly verboten. Wow! No comment. Except that laziness usually wins.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 23, 2020 17:42:31 GMT -6
It's a Pultec STYLE EQ, not a Pultec. Yeah. But what do they mean by "style"?
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 23, 2020 17:21:43 GMT -6
Reps for every good one there is one who should be selling used Yugos! And the odd Trabant.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 23:06:13 GMT -6
Not in HF stuff like video or clocking. If you mix 75 ohm and 95 ohm you can really mess up your timing.
Since impedance is essentially AC resistance, cables definitely DO have impedance, but in audio it usually doesn't matter. In video or any type of digital transmission it definitely does.
for explanations in detail, google "cable impedance"
Back when I had a Video Toaster editing /switching system it DEFINITELY mattered. Not only did all (analog) video cables have to be 75 ohm, they also needed to be the same length or weird things happened to your picture. Same thing running a master clock in an audio system.
I'm not sure you've picked up on it in the past but I design electronics that use high speed and high bandwidth transmission lines (cables, traces, antennas, etc). I'm quite well versed in impedance and transmission line theory, been doing it for the last 15 years. And you're dead wrong. Cables do not have an impedance. They simply interact with the impedances they're interfaced with. OF COURSE they have an impedance. EVERYTHING above absolute zero (temperature) has an impedance. It's basic physics.
If it has resistance it has impedance. The question is whether that impedance matters.
Have you ever set up a video switcher or an editing suite? I have. And when you have you know damn well that cables have impedance and that length matters.
Show me a cable that has zero resistance. Resistance is simply DC impedance. Impedance, being frequency sensitive, is more complex, but it's still the same basic thing. Ask any commercial radio/TV engineer.
And yes, I know you're a designer. Much of the time designers ignore things that are seen as unimportant to the things they work on. I'm not a designer, I'm a tech. Sometimes techs have to deal with stuff that designers dismissed as "unimportant".
If cables had no impedance all transmission would be instantaneous and they're not - which is why it's important in video and digital clocking systems to keep all cables the same length - otherwise you get crap like rolling screens when doing a transition.
Since analog audio is all relatively "low frequency" - below 20kHz - it's unimportant for the most part, although it can sometimes result in "phase smearing" of higher frequencies. Because since impedance is frequency dependant it can throw off the phase of harmonics in an audio signal.
You SHOULD know this, unless you don't often deal with electrically parallel lines between source and load.
When I got my Toaster system back in the early 90s the manual drilled this into you, because if you don't pay attention to it the switcher won't work right.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 17:32:54 GMT -6
I have not, but I've read posts that state that KT cut some corners that might make modding to a real Pultec difficult to impossible. I don't remember the details though.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 17:19:19 GMT -6
svart I wonder if the 110 ohm thing is a true value market delivers diffrent cabels 0.22 or 0.38 and they all say its 110 Ohms something cant be right with this? Cables have no inherent impedance of their own. They're just verified to have a certain amount of loss at that impedance. A lot of times the cable is exactly the same, just tested at both impedances. Not in HF stuff like video or clocking. If you mix 75 ohm and 95 ohm you can really mess up your timing.
Since impedance is essentially AC resistance, cables definitely DO have impedance, but in audio it usually doesn't matter. In video or any type of digital transmission it definitely does.
for explanations in detail, google "cable impedance"
Back when I had a Video Toaster editing /switching system it DEFINITELY mattered. Not only did all (analog) video cables have to be 75 ohm, they also needed to be the same length or weird things happened to your picture. Same thing running a master clock in an audio system.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 16:22:49 GMT -6
1. What's a cinch connector? 2. AES XLR is the same pinout as a regular audio XLR. 3. Not really. Modern Spdif/AES receivers are the same chips these days so they're set up for detecting signals beyond a threshold. Amplitude differences from slightly different resistances shouldn't matter. I just wouldn't make the cable any longer and you should be ok.
Cinch is the EU Term I think...
those are RCA phono connectors. Cinch connectors are something quite different and not like to be encountered at your level.
EDIT: Googling I see that RCA connectors are sometimes called "cinch" in Europe, which is a misapplication of the term. A REAL Cinch connector, also called "Cinch-Jones" is a (usually) rectangular multipin connector usually encountered in various types of obsolete/vintage equipment. It is available in varions numbers of pins, which are flat metal. AFAIK Cinch connectors are usually polarized.
The Cinch company is currently a subsidiary of ITT and, as far as I can tell, now primarily makes various RF connectors, mostly BNCs (Bayonet-Nut Connectors).
Cinch connectors have now been superseded in most applications by various smaller types of multipin - D-sub, Amphenol, etc.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 16:19:37 GMT -6
Thanks. I'm hoping to get back to it Thursday or Friday so I'll repoprt back on results. make sure you read the last edit in my previous message.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 16:02:03 GMT -6
Should I troubleshoot the power supply unit, or is that not somethng that can cause sizzle? If the power cord wasn't connected right, could that be it? Also, I am using a different outlet strip to plug the power supply into, and don't know the difference between this one and the one I used the last time, when I had only very minor sizzle. It is possible but unlikely. It's easily checked by swapping supplies.
Same with the power cable UNLESS the "not being connected right" caused the ground connection to be faulty.
It's not a good idea for someone with no technical experience to go poking around inside a power supply. If swapping supplies between mics indicates a PS problem, take it to a tech. Being slightly careless (or clueless) with such things can result in a shock that'll light up the inside of your eyeballs or worse. it only takes about 15 milliamps across your heart to stop it. For that reason techs usually follow Nikola Tesla's rule that techs work with one hand in a back pocket - it lessens the odds of a fatality.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 14:06:36 GMT -6
The 9000 cable is 10 feet shorter (15 vs. 25). Also, listening to the tracks again, it seems like there's more sizzle than when I used the other power supply, so could the power supply be causing more sizzle? If so, I'll have to troubleshoot that. Thanks. The shorter cable will have slightly less capacitance. Cable capacitance rolls off highs a bit, but it usually doesn't matter with typical length mic cables - but it could.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 14:01:28 GMT -6
They are both 7 pin XLR cables made for MXL tube mics. Since I am no electrician or sound engineer, I was wondering if keeping the cable mostly curled up while using it might generate more noise. Another thing, now that I think of it, is that the signal from the V69 ME cable was stronger, but taking that down didn't help with the noise issue. I had a MicMate connected to the power supply, so I adjusted the volume in the computer's operating system setting, if that matters. Thanks. Length?
If the signal from one cable is, in fact, really stronger/brighter and not an illusion, then the cables must not be the same material. Different guage, alloy, something.
Are you certain the difference is not actually the mic? MXL is not known for good quality control.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 13:48:44 GMT -6
Two MXL V69 Mogami Edition tube mics, same power supply and power cable used. The 7 pin XLR cable that is for an MXL 9000 tube mic works fine with either mic, with little noise, easily corrected in Audacity. The other 7 pin cable, which came with the V69 ME, has a lot more sizzle with both mics. After all my troubleshooting to isolate the issue, I realized the V69 ME cable was coiled up; would that make any difference? If not, any ideas? It has not been used much and looks like it's in new condition. Thanks! My guess would be capacitance. Is the cable itself the same type? Are they the same length?
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 8:03:03 GMT -6
Being using antelope Orion studio synergy Core for 3 months now. The units really sounds great, But i have been getting audio glitch when using there AFX2DAW plugin to run there plugins as normal plugins. They have been helpful, login in remotely several times to help, they where unable to fix the problem. My system is brand new with only protools 2020.9 installed. They even sent me a new unit to try, but got the same results.. antelope recommended For me to buy an apple approved TB Cable (us$150) which i knew was a Waste of time and money, but i gave them the benefit of the doubt. Only answer i got from them was they think the issue is with the way PT is handling the plugins, which i think is BS, told me to try another DAW a program.. so i paid a premium price to be able to use there DSP to off load cpu usages to my imac.. but didn’t get what they are selling... so life will go on, but I’am not happy.. So don't use their damn plugins.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 22, 2020 8:00:54 GMT -6
Being using antelope Orion studio synergy Core for 3 months now. The units really sounds great, But i have been getting audio glitch when using there AFX2DAW plugin to run there plugins as normal plugins. They have been helpful, login in remotely several times to help, they where unable to fix the problem. My system is brand new with only protools 2020.9 installed. They even sent me a new unit to try, but got the same results.. antelope recommended For me to buy an apple approved TB Cable (us$150) which i knew was a Waste of time and money, but i gave them the benefit of the doubt. Only answer i got from them was they think the issue is with the way PT is handling the plugins, which i think is BS, told me to try another DAW a program.. so i paid a premium price to be able to use there DSP to off load cpu usages to my imac.. but didn’t get what they are selling... so life will go on, but I’am not happy.. As I said, I don't use interfaces that run plugins. I suggest that you dont either, except for UAD, who have been doing it for a long time and started out with hardware assisted plugins, not interfaces.
I have beefs with UAD but it isn't related to that.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 19:49:53 GMT -6
Going back to RME with the 802. Never have to worry about latency or buffer sizes rock solid in the driver department. Truly set and forget. The next biggest this i have done is gear reduction to.. 8 pres (neve,tabfunken,jlm,API) and 3 compressors(1176,SSL,dbx160vu). 8 pres is not enough to track a full band. Not with most people's drum methods. Even with my fairly minimalist drum technique, 8 channels would only leave me 3 open for other things - without room mics. And 8 pres of 4 types means only 2 of each type - not nearly enough; you at least need to have all the same type on every channel of the kit.
In another thread we've been discussing the concept of "glue" - to achieve glue you should have the same preamps on most, if not all, channels. Tape helps, but without some consistency of preamps it's not nearly enough. I have 2x 4 channel boutique CRS-IND 4412 outboard preamps (hand made by Carl Johnson) and 32 preamps in the board. I also have a Neve copy preamp that usually lives in my live guitar rig and an A-Designs Ventura (Quad-8 derived) channel strip that I can patch in if need be. I could use a few more, especially a couple tube preamps for ribbon mics, but am not in a rush, I'm pretty well covered. I think I've got about 16 channels of working compression, plus a couple or three waiting for me to get up off my ass and put them on the bench - 4 Allison Gain Brains, one Spectra-Sonics (NOT the software company) 610 (could definitely use another), 2 different types of ADR SCAMP (2 FET, 2 VCA), a Daking FET III, an old ART opto that is the only prosumer comp I have left, a dbx 160X that lives in my guitar rig most of the time, and a couple more that slip my mind at the moment. What I DON'T have is many of the common types that everybody and their dog run out and buy. I could use a pair of LA2As and a couple of 1176s, maybe a dbx 165A, but again, I'm in no hurry. Also have various other SCAMP modules and a couple of Kepexs. Diversity is far more important in comps than in pres. a dbx 160VU would be nice, but not essential - I tend to use ears, not meters.
I figure it's about equivalent to a decent demo studio of the '80s or early '90s.
I find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to minimalize unless they don't work with others.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 18:50:11 GMT -6
Gotta say, I agree with this. I wish you could just buy more plain converters that sound exceptional without all the other stuff. I don' t need 12 preamps and DSP and it's own mixer and shit. I just want audio to go in and out. There are some units still like that but damn they are pricey. Which is odd. Why can't there be a killer multi channel converter without all the other crap on it. I am not sure but is not exactly this what RME is doing with thier MADI connection? Assuming that you already have MADI on your system. And MADI is slow - it cuts your channels in half at 96, at a time when many people are going to 96k or even faster. I don't really see much reason to go above 96, but that still halves your number of channels.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 14:26:01 GMT -6
Old Antelope products tank in value too. Remember they were once Aardvark... All digital hardware tanks in value, it's only a matter of degree. Looked at the price of old Digidesgn stuff recently?
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 14:16:51 GMT -6
I see no reason to buy an interface with preamps. The preamps (from anyone) are never as good as good outboards.
Metric Halo and RME have amazingly nice preamps. Not colored, buy still pristinely delicious. I guess. I have a (fairly large) console plus a few outboards. And I'm kinda opposed to single boxes that "do everything" - I don't need my converter going out of service if a preamp screws up, or vice-versa.
If I had a remote rig it might be different....
p.s. Metric Halo is (sadly) nonexistant to me - I'm not a Mac guy.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 14:11:24 GMT -6
If this holds true and we talk a commercial studio. The OP could invest more money into RME and go with the most stable drivers in the world. It facinates me the past 10 years that I run 25 I/Os with not a single problem except firmware or driver update. Always stable, always running. A true workhorse setup. I sometimes wonder why RME is not getting more reputation for it's soundness. Another top dog in "stability" is Metric Halo. Their new "3D" systems (upgrades too) are awesome. Y'know, I've never had any driver problems with Antelope. Maybe I'm lucky, but (and I've said this before) I strongly suspect that those who have driver problems are those too dumb (or egotistical) to actually read the installation instructions and FOLLOW THEM. Because if you don't, and don't connect to the internet before installing you're in for a world of hurt. You'll need to connect to Antelope's support and have them sort it out remotely, which could be a problem for those who never allow an internet connection to the DAW machine.
I'm normally one of those but was forewarned and ran a cable to the machine before starting installation. No problems, not one. And, as I understand it (never having had to deal with them) Antelope does not exactly have the world's best support team. IMO it's probably not the smartest way to design an installation setup, but I'm not going to argue with them, as if you follow the directions it works.
I don't know about their machines that run their own plugins though - I avoid that kind of stuff on principle. And my system is the vanilla one that doesn't do that anyway.
(Typos, typos - did I catch all the tipoz...?)
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2020 13:49:08 GMT -6
Very hard to say.. For overall mix improvements, probably stepping up to my first pair of real professional monitors after using random cheapies and regular speakers for years. For workflow and general abilities, would be Reaper because before that I used both hardware recorders and random softwares with no real overall DAW capabilities. Reaper is an incredible deal! We went from Nuendo to Reaper and never looked back.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2020 23:58:33 GMT -6
Those 88192s are sleepers. I've been meaning to grab one forever. A good friend and I shot them out against our Symphony MKIIs, our Apollos, his Avid/HDX box. 88192 was consistently in the top couple for us when we listened blind. You can get them for next to nothing these days. Not supported anymore.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2020 19:32:54 GMT -6
I see no reason to buy an interface with preamps. The preamps (from anyone) are never as good as good outboards.
$9K for a 64 channel interface? NO. That's 3x what their 32 goes for - doesn't make sense.
Not quite 3x as the hdx version is near 4k from antelope. The hdx interfaces add a lot to the cost. But you are right you could get two 32HDs for a bit less still in the same size format. I just saw the B&H has the HDX for just under 6 grand - that's a lot better, considering that Antelope were real tigh-asses about discounting when I got my Orion 32 - had to grind the crap out of Sweetwater to get them to heavily discount cables and adaptors under cost.
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