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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 22:26:04 GMT -6
I’ve never had any trouble with any specific type of compression and drum imaging. That said, whenever I try compressing overheads, I usually end up removing it. Yeah usually it sounds like crap or vacuum pumped like ringo but limiting the overheads to kill the snare in them can sound cool The Ringo vacuum swoosh is something I've tried to achieve a million times. Never really have. Those are pinnacle sonic vibes in my world.
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 21:30:36 GMT -6
I’ve never had any trouble with any specific type of compression and drum imaging. That said, whenever I try compressing overheads, I usually end up removing it.
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 14:48:25 GMT -6
But as to the topic at hand (how can you monitor through plugs while circumventing the DAW buffer), those need to run on Apollo DSP.
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 11:30:49 GMT -6
The buffer doesn't affect latency when you're direct monitoring. You can set it to the highest setting to get the most processing power and best stability, and still get 1.1ms of total audio latency for recording. That's the great thing about the Apollo, for me at least. So it takes the audio from the streams before the DAW? How do you monitor through the plugs in the DAW then? I think that's what wiz was asking about, right? The plug-ins you monitor through aren’t in the DAW, they’re in the UA Console app. You can monitor them or print them if you want.
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 9:27:58 GMT -6
It was some prior but very recent update. I think ~two updates ago.
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 8:49:25 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too. I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did. I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC. I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time. 2048 samples at 96KHz sampling rate would be about 21ms of buffering time. Not sure how the math works to get you 1.1ms latency. I guess that 1.1ms would be just processing latency, not total audio latency. I think he means DAW buffer is at 2048. But he's monitoring through Apollo Console app, independent of that buffer.
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2024 22:52:59 GMT -6
Yeah I used to calculate and enter it, but you'd have to have different values for different sample rates and buffers, and it didn't seem to always be phase coherent.
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2024 22:04:15 GMT -6
I've continued having HW insert delay compensation work in PT. I almost can't believe it. It's just working. I don't have any delay values in the I/O settings. Been doing parallel drums, vocals, no phase issues, works across buffer settings...it's aligned.
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2024 21:29:09 GMT -6
I'm right there with you, Wiz. The Apollo system works great for me and I think it sounds great too. I often pull up a "finished" mix session with 50-60 full of plugs, including on the mix bus, and track an overdub with 1.1 ms latency, even with a really nice reverb or delay being monitored. I can have my buffer set to 2048 and it's rock solid with 1.1 ms latency. I actually was able to do that with a 2012 Macbook Pro too and it was no problem. I've never been able to get that low of latency under that kind of load with native systems, but I haven't tried it with the newer Apple Silicon computers yet. With native systems I always had to disable some plugins, and I couldn't track with reverbs without delay. I think the only thing that can compete latency-wise is HDX, and it costs twice as much money. I put that money into microphones and monitors instead and I'm glad I did. I think the converters sound great. I slightly prefer the sound of the Apogee Symphony AD, but these days when you're buying an interface, you're buying into an ecosystem, and all the other factors still make the Apollo a winner for me. The DA on the Apollo X series blows away a lot of the DACs that top mastering engineers were using 20 years ago. I'm sure a Hilo would be even more transparent, but I work just fine with the Apollo X DAC. I still haven't used Luna. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I find it easy to work with UA Console and Pro Tools. I came up at a time in studios when we were using LFACs as a front end to record into Pro Tools, and this is basically the same workflow but with software. In Pro Tools I'm always switching between the mix and edit windows, this just adds a third window with the same quick keys. I'm super fast with both Pro Tools and Console and it's easy for me. I'm sure Luna is an even better workflow and I'm excited to give it a try when I have time. UA Console has keystrokes? What can you do with them? Presumably you still have to target the Console window for them to apply.
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Post by ragan on Mar 20, 2024 16:43:36 GMT -6
Testify, Wiz!
I haven’t been on Apollo platform for years, but I had SF and BF and thought they were really great. If I had wanted more of an all-in-one solution, I’d still be using Apollo.
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Post by ragan on Mar 19, 2024 20:55:43 GMT -6
All y'all are making me feel self-conscious about my lowly SF Apollo Quad and 16. I just can't convince myself to spend another $5k on interfaces with how much I actually record so they will have to do. :x Don’t feel self-conscious! Excellent interfaces. Loved mine. It soundly whooped my super modded Black Lion 002 and I made recordings I love with it.
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Post by ragan on Mar 18, 2024 13:40:53 GMT -6
Have other folks remarked on the ‘reach’ quality on active vs passive? Because I’ve always heard similar things in discussion and clips of the passive VL37.
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Post by ragan on Mar 18, 2024 11:22:13 GMT -6
Hell yeah! Just had time to briefly listen to a couple minutes, but it sounds like the things I love about TR-era YES.
Very cool to hear new stuff from him, thanks for sharing!
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Post by ragan on Mar 18, 2024 9:55:50 GMT -6
Still experimenting with whether this is a good fit for my voice, but I love it so much on guitar and drums (and likely lots and lots of other sources) that I kept it. The VL37a has so much reach into the sound. Presents so much life and detail in this very pleasing way, with nothing sticking out. Have you (or anyone else reading and able to comment) compared a VL37 with a cloud lifter to a VL37a? I haven’t ever had the opportunity to use the passive VL37. I’m sure it sounds great though. There will be more Samar mics in my future, I’m pretty sure.
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Post by ragan on Mar 17, 2024 17:43:12 GMT -6
ragan, have you ever used the studio 939 c12 diy build with Tim's cap ? Nope, have not.
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Post by ragan on Mar 17, 2024 11:31:29 GMT -6
The BC12a ended up being way too bright on me. I think this will stick a fork in me trying to get a C12/251 style mic to work on my voice. I did basically like the mic though. Build quality felt great. Noise floor was a little higher than I would have liked but I don’t think it would have been truly problematic. I’m used to my 67 which is like dead silent, so a lot of other mics’ self noise tend to stick out to me. I am sorry this did not work for you. Was this the tube version? Mine has the brightness I expect and it is sweet. Not for my voice though - I prefer a 47. But for some voices and instruments, yes. I did not notice much noise. The only 251ish mic I liked on my voice was the Soundelux 251, but even then I would take my Heiserman 47tube over it. Yeah, the BC12a I had was the tube version.
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Post by ragan on Mar 17, 2024 10:37:55 GMT -6
The BC12a ended up being way too bright on me. I think this will stick a fork in me trying to get a C12/251 style mic to work on my voice.
I did basically like the mic though. Build quality felt great. Noise floor was a little higher than I would have liked but I don’t think it would have been truly problematic. I’m used to my 67 which is like dead silent, so a lot of other mics’ self noise tend to stick out to me.
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Post by ragan on Mar 17, 2024 10:33:06 GMT -6
Still experimenting with whether this is a good fit for my voice, but I love it so much on guitar and drums (and likely lots and lots of other sources) that I kept it. The VL37a has so much reach into the sound. Presents so much life and detail in this very pleasing way, with nothing sticking out.
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Post by ragan on Mar 12, 2024 19:35:06 GMT -6
What are the datapoints that make ya’ll skittish about Apogee? For me it's just that they seem to abandon interfaces fairly often - not the Symphony II so much: that seems to have been around for awhile and still going strong. But there have been several times now over the years where I went to buy an Apogee interface only to discover that they'd recently discontinued it. Happened with an Element, an Ensemble, a Duet, and an original Symphony. That's really my only hesitation - I've always liked the Apogee sound.
For better or for worse, Metric Halo is at the other end of the spectrum: Every interface they've ever released going back 20+yrs is still for sale and fully updatable to modern specs, with new drivers for every interface every time there's a MacOS release. Maybe MH would be more advanced if they let the original 2882 go instead of spending development and research time on manufacturing user-replaceable cards to update an interface from 2002, but I do appreciate their attempts to keep boxes out of landfills rather than sell slightly different versions of the same interface every so often (here's looking at you, MOTU 828).
Other than that, no shade thrown at Apogee over here.
Yeah that makes sense. I think that's great about MH and their ongoing support. Super cool. I don't have any inherent loyalty to Apogee. I've generally liked the one interface of theirs that I've owned, but that's about it.
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Post by ragan on Mar 12, 2024 17:00:46 GMT -6
Wouldn’t buy the Mac or the Symphony?
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Post by ragan on Mar 12, 2024 15:51:03 GMT -6
What are the datapoints that make ya’ll skittish about Apogee?
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Post by ragan on Mar 11, 2024 20:18:01 GMT -6
Its funny, I use the Apollo x8. I read these threads...look at the Apollo .......and think of the past convertors I have had......wonder for a while.....then shrug and say to myself....close your wallet and just keep mixing... LOL cheers Wiz this wasn't meant as a passive aggressive dig ..... not that anyone inferred it was...thinking more along the lines of posting in a thread that I have no dog in the fight in... Just that.. its really easy for me to get swayed (I bet a lot of us are) in reading these threads where people whose work I admire are saying things about the Apollo conversion..... I find my self starting to search on the net and must stop myself...in my life now.. conversion is the last thing I need to spend money on... Just yesterday I was reading the world wide waste of time...and found myself after reading a few threads.. looking for the best price of a guitar pedal..... and nearly bought it... till I looked up on the shelf....AND I ALREADY OWN IT!!!!!! LOL Johnkenn aint the only one... who forgets what he has had... cheers Wiz Hey Wiz. Random piece of input here. I switched from BF Apollo to Symphony MKII and sometimes when I listen to tracks I did on the Apollo I think “damn, this sounds good…should I switch back to Apollo???” We’re all a little loony for getting lost in all this hair splitting. I think you’re 100% correct to just keep using the excellent tools you have.
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Post by ragan on Mar 9, 2024 18:46:51 GMT -6
Also - if I'm reading that correctly, I wouldn't be able to listen to itunes or any music outside of Pro Tools through the Trinnov. If that’s true, that’s a bad design choice.
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Post by ragan on Mar 9, 2024 10:29:23 GMT -6
Wait. I was being nice…then I saw the Pro Tools dig. What Pro Tools dig?
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Post by ragan on Mar 8, 2024 19:04:44 GMT -6
Interesting that PT Studio has HWDC now. But that almost certainly only works with Avid interfaces, right? Johnkenn and I both noticed it with non-Avid interfaces. I’m on Symphony MKII, he’s on Apollo. I haven’t done any testing, just noticed it seemed to start working. John (I think) confirmed it with someone in the know.
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