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Post by basspro on Mar 21, 2024 14:37:32 GMT -6
I'm finally at a point where I have enough compressors that I can use them all over a session, but the one spot I'm wanting compression for but don't necessarily have anything for is overheads. I have a pair of original Retro Doublewides and I think they would tonally work well, but I've never attempted to use dual mono compression on overheads. I definitely understand that the image would pull to one side, but how weird is it? I unfortunately moved out of my tracking space a few years ago and my whole rig is mobile, so it's not something I can just check out really quickly. I suppose I could run some dry tracks throughthem to see how I feel, but I'm also just curious if this is something that many engineers do? I'm open to swapping the old Doublewides for the newer version, which is stereo-linkable, but if I can get away with what I have I would much rather do that.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 21, 2024 14:56:48 GMT -6
You mean image pulling to one side because of the ride being on the right or the hat on the left? I kind of like dual mono for that reason…isn’t that more realistic to how you’d hear in the real world?
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Post by basspro on Mar 21, 2024 15:05:39 GMT -6
You mean image pulling to one side because of the ride being on the right or the hat on the left? I kind of like dual mono for that reason…isn’t that more realistic to how you’d hear in the real world? Yeah. The example I kind of had in my head was a floor tom getting slammed and causing one side to get far more gain reduction going on. My first instinct is that it will sound wider, but having never tried it, I'm wondering if it will just make for an awkward image? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 21, 2024 16:11:30 GMT -6
You mean image pulling to one side because of the ride being on the right or the hat on the left? I kind of like dual mono for that reason…isn’t that more realistic to how you’d hear in the real world? Yeah. The example I kind of had in my head was a floor tom getting slammed and causing one side to get far more gain reduction going on. My first instinct is that it will sound wider, but having never tried it, I'm wondering if it will just make for an awkward image? I’ve heard people say that, but I’ve used it often on the drum bus and everything was fine. |
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Post by christophert on Mar 21, 2024 16:26:47 GMT -6
I use a Pom Fairchild on overheads on almost every session, with the L&R link off.
Fortunately the Pom has a wet/dry blend, and I'm nearly always using it around 50 - 60%.
As previously mentioned, a floor tom should never squash the other side.
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Post by drbill on Mar 21, 2024 16:38:31 GMT -6
Yes. It's fine. I'll do it when I like that better than linked.
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 21, 2024 17:01:48 GMT -6
I kind of do it as default when tracking. Always compressing overheads on the way in in dual mono. But during mix on the drumbus usually linked, not always though. Dual mono on drumbus gives a nice depth and ever living dynamic touch to it, but at the expense of thump or punch and fatness I feel. So depends on wanted outcome I guess.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 21, 2024 17:59:09 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 21, 2024 18:07:27 GMT -6
Yes. It's fine. I'll do it when I like that better than linked. That’s really what I was trying to say too…if it sounds better, it’s better. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 21, 2024 18:09:15 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. Yeah - I find I very, very rarely compress OH or room, because it’s already pretty heavily compressed going in most of the time. I’ve put a limiter on an unruly one before so the crashes weren’t crazy. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 21, 2024 18:12:04 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. Yeah - I find I very, very rarely compress OH or room, because it’s already pretty heavily compressed going in most of the time. I’ve put a limiter on an unruly one before so the crashes weren’t crazy. Does that mean when you're tracking the overheads are compressed, or the things you're getting to mix from others is? Or maybe both? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 21, 2024 19:38:00 GMT -6
IME, the only time the image shifts dramatically to one side or the other is if the snare is off center in relation to the Oh mics. As long as the snare is equal distant from the oh’s the image stays pretty consistent. Ymmv
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 21, 2024 19:40:44 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. Variety is the spice of life so is a bit of lob sided compression on occasion. Though you can always eat too much and ruin it.. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 21, 2024 19:41:37 GMT -6
You mean image pulling to one side because of the ride being on the right or the hat on the left? I kind of like dual mono for that reason…isn’t that more realistic to how you’d hear in the real world? no because the kit is still pumping around unlinked, shifting the stereo center around. you need something with an auto release, that is two releases, where one is normalish and one is very fast to release incredibly quickly on brief transients to not hold down the rest of the audio. most classic compressors are useless for this because the secondary slower release is usually seconds long to try to level out vocals and program material long term so you have to set the release way too fast for the body of the drums.
you need something modern you probably already own that lets you set this up like the weiss ds1, kotelnikov, the dangerous compressor's smart dynamics in hardware where the slowest release is 500ms, or you could try a more traditional compressor with a far faster auto release than an ssl or 1176 like the psp impressor or molot ge set up correctly.
this is for cleanliness of course and not totally mangling something. for that i use vulf compressor or oldtimer me.
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Post by Dan on Mar 21, 2024 19:42:30 GMT -6
IME, the only time the image shifts dramatically to one side or the other is if the snare is off center in relation to the Oh mics. As long as the snare is equal distant from the oh’s the image stays pretty consistent. Ymmv cymbals and floor tom will shift the kick and snare around if unlinked on overheads or drum bus. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 21, 2024 19:47:35 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. even out drum kits where the overheads are the majority of the sound. often minimally miced. |
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Post by smashlord on Mar 21, 2024 20:24:37 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. Knock the snare back a little bit/get a little pumping going. |
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 21:30:36 GMT -6
I’ve never had any trouble with any specific type of compression and drum imaging.
That said, whenever I try compressing overheads, I usually end up removing it.
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Post by robo on Mar 21, 2024 21:52:16 GMT -6
Ideally you’d have the option to link or unlink, but it can work. A drummer riding the floor tom can get things wonky.
My favorite OH compressors I’ve tried are the API 2500 and Daking fet III, both of which have variable stereo linking. Depending on the drum part and song, having things a little more tied together or loose can be a powerful thing to control.
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Post by Dan on Mar 21, 2024 22:11:19 GMT -6
I’ve never had any trouble with any specific type of compression and drum imaging. That said, whenever I try compressing overheads, I usually end up removing it. Yeah usually it sounds like crap or vacuum pumped like ringo but limiting the overheads to kill the snare in them can sound cool |
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Post by Dan on Mar 21, 2024 22:11:59 GMT -6
Ideally you’d have the option to link or unlink, but it can work. A drummer riding the floor tom can get things wonky. My favorite OH compressors I’ve tried are the API 2500 and Daking fet III, both of which have variable stereo linking. Depending on the drum part and song, having things a little more tied together or loose can be a powerful thing to control. the daking fets are so smooth |
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Post by ragan on Mar 21, 2024 22:26:04 GMT -6
I’ve never had any trouble with any specific type of compression and drum imaging. That said, whenever I try compressing overheads, I usually end up removing it. Yeah usually it sounds like crap or vacuum pumped like ringo but limiting the overheads to kill the snare in them can sound cool The Ringo vacuum swoosh is something I've tried to achieve a million times. Never really have. Those are pinnacle sonic vibes in my world. |
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Post by christophert on Mar 22, 2024 1:03:55 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. For me it's by putting a whole bunch of tubes and transformers in the chain, which smooths out the top end, gives me a weighty low end. The compression is either doing close to nothing, or doing 5db or more, it's all about the sonic goodness the compressor device departs. The Fairchild sounds incredible for this. I don't recommend using a compressor on overheads when tracking unless the compression sounds close to invisible plus it sounds better by going through the device.
I never used to track with OH compression - but these days I'm really loving the outcome of tubes and transformers. I'm also REALLY loving the Soyuz 013's as overheads, they are killer !
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 22, 2024 1:39:44 GMT -6
I'm curious as to what you all are trying to get/accomplish with overhead compression. I am mainly using glyn johns (modified, also added tom mics to beef them up some for a more modern sound). So the overheads are basically the whole sound. I compress both kick and snare there, then just add the few close mics for extra thump. For me the drum sound is sculpted in four stages and comps are involved in every one of them. Tracking, oh stereo track, drum bus and eventually mixbus. Usually the second stage, the track itself has the least amount of compression, but I think it’s a relevant stage for that big rounded drum sound. |
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Post by sean on Mar 22, 2024 6:15:21 GMT -6
When I’m sent something for mixing and there’s too much snare or the snare pokes out too much the Waves BSS DRP-402 with the high frequency emphasis side chain filter in does a nice job of grabbing the snare without effecting the tone of everything else around it. Also stereo.
If I’m tracking something and the snare or honestly sometimes the rack tom sounds too loud compared to the rest of the kit I usually try my Overstayer SVC, which is stereo. Any SSL style compressor can work nicely as well.
I think a side chain filter so the toms or kick are really triggered as easily is helpful if it’s grabbing that stuff and shifting the imagine around.
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