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Post by levon on May 31, 2019 13:12:25 GMT -6
I liked #1 better, more bite. #2 sounded more rounded. That said, if I had only heard #2 without the comparison, I would have loved it too. Nothing wrong with it.
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Post by notneeson on May 31, 2019 13:16:20 GMT -6
Feels like difference without distinction to me over here. EDIT: my bad, it's plenty bright. Laptop DAC seems kinda murky with the 650s up until a certain volume. Need to remember that. Wait what’s plenty bright? I missed something. Sorry, overall tonal balance. First listen seemed dark but then I realized the issue was on my end.
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Post by ragan on May 31, 2019 13:31:48 GMT -6
Wait what’s plenty bright? I missed something. Sorry, overall tonal balance. First listen seemed dark but then I realized the issue was on my end. Oh ok, for which clip? I assume the second one? Which do you like better overall?
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Post by notneeson on May 31, 2019 16:40:58 GMT -6
Sorry, overall tonal balance. First listen seemed dark but then I realized the issue was on my end. Oh ok, for which clip? I assume the second one? Which do you like better overall? Well, for both. I did not touch the volume on my laptop on first listening to both tracks. But I thought the top could be opened up quite a bit and maybe you'd just kept things dark for, I dunno, a variety of reasons. On that first listen, I had no real preference, but I liked the general vibe of everything. Second listen, same laptop/headphones but volume up higher, I liked #1 a tad better. Might be fooling myself as I'd read the comments. (Some of this may be Fletcher Munson related too, but I am starting to think the cheap DAC in my Mac does a poor job driving my Sennheisers if I have the volume down below a certain threshold.)
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Post by ragan on May 31, 2019 16:53:30 GMT -6
Thanks for the input everyone.
Elec Gtrs 1: Overloud TH-U
Elec Gtrs 2: Kemper
The TH-U guitars are AC30->Ownhammer cab on the right and blackface Bassman->different Ownhammer cab on the left.
The Kemper guitars are one of Stu G's Vox profiles (from Tone Junkies) on the right and one of M Britt's Fenders on the left.
For my part, I pretty strongly prefer the TH-U. The Kemper feels kind of closed and flat by comparison, similar to how I remember. The TH-U (to me) has the air and dimension and dynamics around it that just sound real to me.
I think the Kemper is cool though, always have. It's fun to have it standalone and not worry about buffer/latency. Also fun to tweak real knobs. I'm gonna do a lot more experimenting/comparing before making a final judgment.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 17:02:47 GMT -6
I’d forgotten you had the kemper:) for me, the first one, had that odd high end sizzle thing, like ua amp sims That’s what I thought too. Like it was flatter and sounded more “direct”. It seems cleaner too.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 17:04:19 GMT -6
Thanks for the input everyone. Elec Gtrs 1: Overloud TH-U Elec Gtrs 2: Kemper The TH-U guitars are AC30->Ownhammer cab on the right and blackface Bassman->different Ownhammer cab on the left. The Kemper guitars are one of Stu G's Vox profiles (from Tone Junkies) on the right and one of M Britt's Fenders on the left. For my part, I pretty strongly prefer the TH-U. The Kemper feels kind of closed and flat by comparison, similar to how I remember. The TH-U (to me) has the air and dimension and dynamics around it that just sound real to me. I think the Kemper is cool though, always have. It's fun to have it standalone and not worry about buffer/latency. Also fun to tweak real knobs. I'm gonna do a lot more experimenting/comparing before making a final judgment. That’s so weird. I thought the exact opposite.
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Post by ragan on May 31, 2019 17:10:03 GMT -6
Over the last couple days, I'd come back with fresh ears and do another blind AB in PT, where I wasn't used to either sound and sometimes I'd think, "Oh wow, this time I'm digging the Kemper over TH-U" and then open my eyes only to find it was always the TH-U I was picking.
I'd encourage anyone interested to put them in the DAW on a keystroke toggle and listen blind.
I'll be doing more comparisons and posting them.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 17:13:40 GMT -6
It was definitely close...I thought number 1 was cleaner overall...and no. 2 broke up more like I liked...but maybe that’s the only reason.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 17:16:26 GMT -6
Oh there’s also pick attack in there too. I agree that some software sounds as good...and I haven’t delved into th-u, but once it’s dialed in how I like them, it’s just SO easy. Just worth it for me.
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Post by ragan on May 31, 2019 17:20:36 GMT -6
Also apparently the Kemper track is louder, LUFS wise. I just RMS normalized the guitars and bounced.
With TH-U there are two big caveats.
1. The presets and demos online are bad. Really bad. 2. The stock cabs are just good in my view. Not amazing. Loading up the Ownhammer cab IRs is where it starts to sound real to me.
Also there are about 500 high gain amps in TH-U that I just don’t care for. Could just be my taste though. I don’t like them in real life either. But load up that AC30 and an appropriate Ownhammer cab and see if it makes you grin.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 18:32:55 GMT -6
There are several UA Amps and several in Helix with OH cabs that work really well...it’s just the overall convenience of the Kemper that sells me.
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Post by ragan on May 31, 2019 18:41:49 GMT -6
There are several UA Amps and several in Helix with OH cabs that work really well...it’s just the overall convenience of the Kemper that sells me. It is indeed convenient and fun to play.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 20:09:48 GMT -6
I had wondered whether the Kemper had kind of a similar signature on every amp...and maybe it does. Sometimes I think I gravitate towards making every profile sound the way I want it in solo...and I tend to eq them very similarly. So there’s a sameness. When you have five amps in the room, you get what you get for the most part. I’ve actually been trying to NOT eq profiles and let them be what they are...and I’m finding I’m getting more realistic results. Now - this could all be because I never had a ton of experience recording multiple amps with projects. It was always one do-all for me. I guess what I’m getting at is it’s similar to eqing a vocal in solo opposed to with the mix.
I’ll have to check out th-u again. I still honestly like the sound of mix 2 a little better, but to me there’s not a $1200 difference. But I’ve done this dance 435 times...I just know this workflow works for me. I’d love to hear the Axefx III in person too.
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Post by shoe on May 31, 2019 20:09:50 GMT -6
Thanks for the input everyone. Elec Gtrs 1: Overloud TH-U Elec Gtrs 2: Kemper The TH-U guitars are AC30->Ownhammer cab on the right and blackface Bassman->different Ownhammer cab on the left. The Kemper guitars are one of Stu G's Vox profiles (from Tone Junkies) on the right and one of M Britt's Fenders on the left. For my part, I pretty strongly prefer the TH-U. The Kemper feels kind of closed and flat by comparison, similar to how I remember. The TH-U (to me) has the air and dimension and dynamics around it that just sound real to me. I think the Kemper is cool though, always have. It's fun to have it standalone and not worry about buffer/latency. Also fun to tweak real knobs. I'm gonna do a lot more experimenting/comparing before making a final judgment. Interesting! I was going to guess the first might be a Tele into an AC30 or AC15 (it has that kind of almost DI-ish bright sound to it that Vox amps can get on the top boost channel and a single coil bridge pickup). Pretty good simulation it seems! I had figured the second clip was a Kemper because the right side guitar has that sort of "hazy" or "smeary" breakup sound that I seem to hear in a lot of Kemper clips. (Almost a bit tube screamerish.) The cleaner left side guitar sounded better to me but with a more rounded attack than the first clip. Of course, bear in mind that I design guitar pedals and my specialty is overdrive and fuzz, so my ear is super tuned to breakup characteristics. I can hear like...differences in diode brands or like .2v difference in supply in a blind A/B so...not your average listening audience.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2019 20:26:17 GMT -6
I was just about to type - I apparently don’t hear those kind of nuances.
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Post by shoe on May 31, 2019 21:08:30 GMT -6
I was just about to type - I apparently don’t hear those kind of nuances. Yeah, I am one of those "harmonic content" listeners primarily over melodic or rhythmic. Basically a pain in the ass, lol.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 1, 2019 8:13:20 GMT -6
There are several UA Amps and several in Helix with OH cabs that work really well...it’s just the overall convenience of the Kemper that sells me. Plus the latency. If there was a way to monitor amp sims in real time that would be great. Until that happens, who wants to play a guitar part through a real amp, send the amp mic plus a direct sound to the DAW, then put on the sim? Not me, but I understand some people will do it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2019 8:22:54 GMT -6
More so the taxing of the computer when getting the latency low enough to use. EG is sometimes the last thing I’ll put on, so I’m pushing things by then cpu wise. Wish UA would do a AC30 and Blackface Deluxe...then I could consider it. Drew @ UA
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Post by Guitar on Jun 1, 2019 8:30:00 GMT -6
More so the taxing of the computer when getting the latency low enough to use. EG is sometimes the last thing I’ll put on, so I’m pushing things by then cpu wise. Wish UA would do a AC30 and Blackface Deluxe...then I could consider it. Drew @ UA This is sort of close to my experience. In my case, low buffers at the start of a session, get the amp sims going. By the time the track gets built up it's sometimes required to freeze or bounce the guitar tracks. Or just crank up the buffer on your recording interface. Hopefully by then, the playing has been settled on. This is the whole reason I went with Apollo, and then Presonus Quantum, so I could actually play these ITB instruments. I switched from 96K sessions to 48K so I could keep more plugins going as tracks start to stack. With a fairly strong CPU and a good interface (low round trip latency) it is feasible to use these things like Helix, Waves PRS, whatever, in place of a Kemper, or an Apollo/UAD setup.
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Post by donr on Jun 1, 2019 9:46:00 GMT -6
I recently learned something I didn't know about latency with virtual instruments, on DP at least. If you get into a mix and then want to add VI's late in the session, and they're sluggish, turns out any plugins you have on the master fader will slow the response of the whole system, but plugins on channel or aux faders do not. If you save the settings on the master plugins, and temporarily remove them, you can use a 256 or less buffer and restore acceptable response for last minute VI overdubs. Then restore the master plugs and use a bigger buffer for more computational headroom. I suffered for years without knowing that. Might be the same with any DAW.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2019 9:57:05 GMT -6
I recently learned something I didn't know about latency with virtual instruments, on DP at least. If you get into a mix and then want to add VI's late in the session, and they're sluggish, turns out any plugins you have on the master fader will slow the response of the whole system, but plugins on channel or aux faders do not. If you save the settings on the master plugins, and temporarily remove them, you can use a 256 or less buffer and restore acceptable response for last minute VI overdubs. Then restore the master plugs and use a bigger buffer for more computational headroom. I suffered for years without knowing that. Might be the same with any DAW. Yeah there’s no latency compensation on the master bus.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 1, 2019 10:26:37 GMT -6
I recently learned something I didn't know about latency with virtual instruments, on DP at least. If you get into a mix and then want to add VI's late in the session, and they're sluggish, turns out any plugins you have on the master fader will slow the response of the whole system, but plugins on channel or aux faders do not. If you save the settings on the master plugins, and temporarily remove them, you can use a 256 or less buffer and restore acceptable response for last minute VI overdubs. Then restore the master plugs and use a bigger buffer for more computational headroom. I suffered for years without knowing that. Might be the same with any DAW. +1 Specific plugs like Newfangled Audio Elevate limiter are not usable on the master bus for VI playing, due to the latency they add. I disable them like you said, do the track, then put them back on for the mix. Cubase 10 just added a new feature where you can see a numerical readout on the mixer for how much latency is on each channel. I haven't used it yet, but that seems like a great idea. Might speed things up a bit.
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Post by donr on Jun 1, 2019 13:30:24 GMT -6
In Digital Performer, it's not enough to bypass them, you have to take 'em off the inserts. It didn't occur to me there'd be no latency compensation on the master fader. Why not?, I was thinking.. All plugs have latency and they add up. I usually put some look ahead with the final limiter/dither too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2019 13:31:49 GMT -6
In Digital Performer, it's not enough to bypass them, you have to take 'em off the inserts. It didn't occur to me there'd be no latency compensation on the master fader. Why not?, I was thinking.. All plugs have latency and they add up. I usually put some look ahead with the final limiter/dither too. Same in Cubase
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