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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 17, 2019 6:59:20 GMT -6
Hey guys, sorry if this is off topic, but I’m really at a loss here. I’m having a problem with a gear manufacturer and could use some advice on how you might handle it. I (stupidly) pre purchased some gear for $725, knowing it would take up to a year to get. After 14 months the gear arrived, extremely poorly packaged and was DOA. I sent it back for repair (on my dime). After another month, I received the supposedly fixed units, again poorly packaged, and both units arrived with broken switches. I took pictures and sent them to the manufacturer and told him I wanted a refund. He said he would refund my money. I sent the units back, again, on my dime. That was over two years ago!! I sent about 15, polite, periodic emails asking for an update, and got a response only once saying, “You are due a refund despite the fact that the units were returned damaged!” I received the units damaged, and he knows that!!! He ignores all my recent emails and I’m pretty convinced at this point, he’s not going to refund my money. I’m not sure how to proceed. I’ve considered threatening legal action, but that would probably require me to file in small claims court from out of state, fly 2000 miles on my dime to go to court, with no guarantee that he would even show up. And if I win the case, but he decides not to pay, I’d have to take him to court again and will have wished I cut my losses at $725. Any ideas on what kind of recourse I may have? Smearing his name on the forums would make me feel better, but probably diminish my already slim chance of getting a refund, as I’m pretty sure this guy is broke. So, what would you do? Thanks I’m advance for any ideas!
Best
Mitch
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Post by M57 on Mar 17, 2019 7:06:31 GMT -6
..is he still in business? ..actively marketing his products?
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Post by Chad on Mar 17, 2019 7:27:44 GMT -6
Hi, Mitch,
Send him an email telling him you forgive him the debt and you forgive him for the way he treated you and then move on. Don't do it with cruelty, but do it in a way of dignifying him and yourself at the same time.
You will feel free if you can do it from an authentic place in your soul. And you will feel good about yourself having given somebody grace even when he did not deserve it. (And, speaking from experience, I never know when years down the road I might need a similar treatment from someone else that I have hurt.)
That's what I would do and have had to do in the past in certain situations. Always... the hardest part is leading up to the point of forgiveness and then letting it go. Once forgiveness is real and it's been done, it will make you a better man.
What forgiveness does not mean:
1) It does not mean he was right.
2) It does not mean you do not warn others if he is still trying to do business.
3) It does not mean you should ever put yourself in a position of trusting him again.
That's my ridiculous and idealistic advice. ;-)
Again, only speaking from my own experience… The important thing is getting free inside yourself and making sure you don't carry him around like a ball and chain for two more years.
Chad
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 17, 2019 8:19:30 GMT -6
Moneys money, but what’s your peace of mind worth ?
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 17, 2019 8:31:35 GMT -6
..is he still in business? ..actively marketing his products? His website is still up. This is a guy most of us on the forums know of.
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Post by yotonic on Mar 17, 2019 8:38:13 GMT -6
I would expose him for the cheat and thief he is. If you don't you are leaving him free to do this to others as he probably has. What he is doing is not right and not legal and no personal issues excuse it.
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Post by jtc111 on Mar 17, 2019 8:46:55 GMT -6
A refund two years in the making is not likely to ever show up. Expose the guy so that others can choose to avoid him should they wish.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 17, 2019 9:10:27 GMT -6
I’d give him a warning if you don’t receive the refund in one month, you’d expose his dishonesty every chance you got.
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 17, 2019 9:34:52 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. I don’t think this guy care about being exposed. It says right on his (new)website: “Forum people think we are making millions. Just trying to get this company going and keep the lights on is almost impossible. Sometimes we go for weeks without an order and that slows us down! One or two orders a month with no bank support or millions in google bucks. Arrrggg. We starve. Despite having to overcome many hurdles we are doing everything in our power to get your orders out. No Sales Makes Us Snails. There are a few hateful people out there that want to bully this little company out of business. Some of it outright slander and some of the same folks have ripped us off for units. Others don’t even own anything we make. We are not giving up. We need your orders to keep on going. Thanks. Threatening and Irritating email senders WILL BE BLOCKED. We do not engage in combative emails, forum discussions or social media.”
I’ve been treating him with kids gloves on the hope I’ll get my money back. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I would’ve given up long ago, but I guess we all have our own threshold we’re willing to tolerate. Thanks again!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 9:35:00 GMT -6
Name and shame. I once had to wait two years for a product I ordered. After 22 months I finally threatened legal action (I had no intention of going through with it), and lo and behold the item turned up. I named and shamed online too.
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Post by levon on Mar 17, 2019 9:51:44 GMT -6
Yes, expose him. People like that should not be able to take anybody's money in the future. And, as others pointed out, you might save a few more people from getting hurt.
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Post by drbill on Mar 17, 2019 10:09:28 GMT -6
Hi, Mitch, Send him an email telling him you forgive him the debt and you forgive him for the way he treated you and then move on. Don't do it with cruelty, but do it in a way of dignifying him and yourself at the same time. You will feel free if you can do it from an authentic place in your soul. And you will feel good about yourself having given somebody grace even when he did not deserve it. (And, speaking from experience, I never know when years down the road I might need a similar treatment from someone else that I have hurt.) That's what I would do and have had to do in the past in certain situations. Always... the hardest part is leading up to the point of forgiveness and then letting it go. Once forgiveness is real and it's been done, it will make you a better man. What forgiveness does not mean: 1) It does not mean he was right. 2) It does not mean you do not warn others if he is still trying to do business. 3) It does not mean you should ever put yourself in a position of trusting him again. That's my ridiculous and idealistic advice. ;-) Again, only speaking from my own experience… The important thing is getting free inside yourself and making sure you don't carry him around like a ball and chain for two more years. Chad mitch - I suspect this is not a popular way to deal with stuff, but IMO, it's pretty much the dead on correct way of doing it. Obviously Chad has walked your walk and made some astute observations along the way. I have as well, and when there is someone dead set on ripping you off (and there are a lot of those predators out there), there is nothing you can do beyond tormenting yourself. You've made your efforts, and they have not worked. Your best bet at this point for your own creativity and peace of mind is to give it up and drop it. The longer you hang on, the more it damages YOU while the offender happily (or maybe not so happily....) skates away with your $$$. Peace of mind is worth more than a few hundred. You'll come out a winner if you take Chad's approach. PS - and BTW, ABSOLUTELY name names. It's your responsibility to help others not fall into the same trap you fell into. GOOD LUCK!!
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Post by jtc111 on Mar 17, 2019 10:09:42 GMT -6
I know who it is now but it's not a company I've ever heard of before. I just read their full policies page and based on that alone I'd never do business with them. A company's policies should offer protection to both the consumer and the company. This guy is all about covering his own ass and offering very little consumer protection, even going so far as to say, "We are not responsible for any shipping damages and do not include insurance in the shipping."
Nope. Until any item arrives at my door unharmed, I'm certainly not responsible for its condition.
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 17, 2019 10:18:33 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. I don’t think this guy care about being exposed. It says right on his (new)website: “Forum people think we are making millions. Just trying to get this company going and keep the lights on is almost impossible. Sometimes we go for weeks without an order and that slows us down! One or two orders a month with no bank support or millions in google bucks. Arrrggg. We starve. Despite having to overcome many hurdles we are doing everything in our power to get your orders out. No Sales Makes Us Snails. There are a few hateful people out there that want to bully this little company out of business. Some of it outright slander and some of the same folks have ripped us off for units. Others don’t even own anything we make. We are not giving up. We need your orders to keep on going. Thanks. Threatening and Irritating email senders WILL BE BLOCKED. We do not engage in combative emails, forum discussions or social media.” I’ve been treating him with kids gloves on the hope I’ll get my money back. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I would’ve given up long ago, but I guess we all have our own threshold we’re willing to tolerate. Thanks again! ^^^ This sounds like he is caught in a game of rationalization. (My interpretation of his web message. You're not alone, or he would not have had to place that text on his own website… What kind of terrible marketing copy is that anyway??) I suspect he knows deep down where his weakness lies (which probably frustrates him with himself), but instead of taking full responsibility for the challenge he laid in your lap, he is finger-pointing and making excuses. John Kennedy gave brilliant advice: fire a warning shot via an email (which really honors him and gives him the benefit of the doubt one last time), and then wait to see what happens. If you receive no apology along with refund, then make a public statement which reveals you not as a "hater" but as the kind and considerate person you have always been. The fact that it took you two years to even want to expose him shows what kind of person you are. You really wanted to believe the best about him, and I would say that you still do, which says a ton about your character, Mitch. Much respect for how you've handled this! Thanks Chad. You may be giving me too much credit, lol. I just want my money back and trying to figure out the best strategy. Your diagnosis about him is probably exactly right, but I think outing him will probably make it less likely to get my money back. I’ll most likely be taking John Kennedy’s advice and thanks again for your input! Best Mitch
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Post by drbill on Mar 17, 2019 10:21:18 GMT -6
Mitch - after 2 years, you're not getting your money back.
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 17, 2019 10:51:31 GMT -6
Mitch - after 2 years, you're not getting your money back. Ok, so what would you do?
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 17, 2019 11:13:06 GMT -6
It’s not Stam, but another manufacturer we’ve had a 30 page thread about that takes a year plus to deliver. Now the guys ha changed his company name.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 17, 2019 11:44:34 GMT -6
Please name this company, many of us buy products from small boutique companies, and for me anyway, I base a lot of my buying decision reputation.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 17, 2019 11:48:28 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. I don’t think this guy care about being exposed. It says right on his (new)website: “Forum people think we are making millions. Just trying to get this company going and keep the lights on is almost impossible. Sometimes we go for weeks without an order and that slows us down! One or two orders a month with no bank support or millions in google bucks. Arrrggg. We starve. Despite having to overcome many hurdles we are doing everything in our power to get your orders out. No Sales Makes Us Snails. There are a few hateful people out there that want to bully this little company out of business. Some of it outright slander and some of the same folks have ripped us off for units. Others don’t even own anything we make. We are not giving up. We need your orders to keep on going. Thanks. Threatening and Irritating email senders WILL BE BLOCKED. We do not engage in combative emails, forum discussions or social media.” I’ve been treating him with kids gloves on the hope I’ll get my money back. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I would’ve given up long ago, but I guess we all have our own threshold we’re willing to tolerate. Thanks again! That sounds like Ross Martin talk to me. I could be wrong, but if I’m not, then you’re out of luck. Count it as a lesson learned.
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Post by jtc111 on Mar 17, 2019 12:19:20 GMT -6
That sounds like Ross Martin talk to me. I could be wrong, but if I’m not, then you’re out of luck. Count it as a lesson learned. So he's not the first guy to get screwed over by this Ross Martin character?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 12:30:52 GMT -6
There's a long negative thread about him over at GS.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 17, 2019 12:33:06 GMT -6
That sounds like Ross Martin talk to me. I could be wrong, but if I’m not, then you’re out of luck. Count it as a lesson learned. So he's not the first guy to get screwed over by this Ross Martin character? Not by a mile. I barely got mine, with a year wait, and then it was broken when I did get it. Build quality was shoddy at best. That’s just my first hand experience though. Others may have had a different experience.
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Post by jtc111 on Mar 17, 2019 12:45:36 GMT -6
So he's not the first guy to get screwed over by this Ross Martin character? Not by a mile. I barely got mine, with a year wait, and then it was broken when I did get it. Build quality was shoddy at best. That’s just my first hand experience though. Others may have had a different experience. I just saw the long thread over at GS. He's been screwing people since at least 2015. Taking in more orders than you can keep up with is going to bite anyone in the ass at some point. It's inevitable.
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Post by drbill on Mar 17, 2019 13:40:26 GMT -6
Mitch - after 2 years, you're not getting your money back. Ok, so what would you do? I'd follow Chad's advice or something along those lines. Warn others. Give it up. It will only hurt / annoy you and stifle creativity. And in our business, creativity is a very valuable currency. At least it is for me and my business. Drop it and move on - or continue in it and become worse off for the wear and tear on your live. Warn others so they can steer clear of the crook. I've been in yours and Chad's shoes. Walked the walk for many miles. Left it (bitterness) behind with forgiveness. The bad situation (of which I entered completely naive) cost me relationships with my employee's, almost the relationship with my employer, many, many, many thousands of $$$$$$, and almost my good standing at the musicians union. All because of a LIAR and a cheat who was hellbent from the get go to take advantage of a person who was naive (me). I did the communication in good faith. I did the holding out for money thing. Then I did the attorney thing. Then I did the lawsuit thing (small claims for the max cause I realized I would only loose more with a REAL lawsuit). Then I did the trying to collect thing. Then I did the bitterness thing. Several years of being "in the right" - but taking it in the shorts emotionally and financially. In the end, it was only me that lost. I made good to all my employees, and ate it myself. Well....I won the small claims, but it did zero good. The dude had already transferred all assets into his wife's name, and was really adept at being a crook. These types have years of experience and are good at evading normal folks. They generally only respond to physical threats, and I am not going there. When crooks and liars want to take advantage of you, that's exactly what they will do. For small amounts (And $700 is substantial, but it's still small when it comes to legal activities), it's just not worth the aggravation and bitterness it will bring into your life. When they are REALLY good at it - and my hard lesson WAS REALLY, REALLY good at it - there's only loss on your end. Cut the loss and move on. Let creativity breath again.... Mine is a life lesson a little larger than buying a product and getting ripped off. But it certainly applies. It along with other similar situations to yours is tne reason I always buy with a CC and preferably thru Paypal if the vendor accepts it. I don't tolerate fools or crooks, and I just cancel the order thru my CC or if necessary, thru PP. I WILL NOT WAIT months or years for a product. I will cancel long before that. Best of luck, and please, when your situation is over - warn others of the jerk / crook / thief!
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 17, 2019 16:16:02 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. I don’t think this guy care about being exposed. It says right on his (new)website: “Forum people think we are making millions. Just trying to get this company going and keep the lights on is almost impossible. Sometimes we go for weeks without an order and that slows us down! One or two orders a month with no bank support or millions in google bucks. Arrrggg. We starve. Despite having to overcome many hurdles we are doing everything in our power to get your orders out. No Sales Makes Us Snails. There are a few hateful people out there that want to bully this little company out of business. Some of it outright slander and some of the same folks have ripped us off for units. Others don’t even own anything we make. We are not giving up. We need your orders to keep on going. Thanks. Threatening and Irritating email senders WILL BE BLOCKED. We do not engage in combative emails, forum discussions or social media.” I’ve been treating him with kids gloves on the hope I’ll get my money back. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I would’ve given up long ago, but I guess we all have our own threshold we’re willing to tolerate. Thanks again! Well BOO-HOO-HOO!
That sounds to me like this guy does it A LOT and at best is running a pyramid scheme, which is illegal. I'd contact the Better Business Bureau and the local district attorney in his area if he doesn't make good immediately.
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