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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 17, 2019 17:15:15 GMT -6
Ok, so what would you do? I'd follow Chad's advice or something along those lines. Warn others. Give it up. It will only hurt / annoy you and stifle creativity. And in our business, creativity is a very valuable currency. At least it is for me and my business. Drop it and move on - or continue in it and become worse off for the wear and tear on your live. Warn others so they can steer clear of the crook. I've been in yours and Chad's shoes. Walked the walk for many miles. Left it (bitterness) behind with forgiveness. The bad situation (of which I entered completely naive) cost me relationships with my employee's, almost the relationship with my employer, many, many, many thousands of $$$$$$, and almost my good standing at the musicians union. All because of a LIAR and a cheat who was hellbent from the get go to take advantage of a person who was naive (me). I did the communication in good faith. I did the holding out for money thing. Then I did the attorney thing. Then I did the lawsuit thing (small claims for the max cause I realized I would only loose more with a REAL lawsuit). Then I did the trying to collect thing. Then I did the bitterness thing. Several years of being "in the right" - but taking it in the shorts emotionally and financially. In the end, it was only me that lost. I made good to all my employees, and ate it myself. Well....I won the small claims, but it did zero good. The dude had already transferred all assets into his wife's name, and was really adept at being a crook. These types have years of experience and are good at evading normal folks. They generally only respond to physical threats, and I am not going there. When crooks and liars want to take advantage of you, that's exactly what they will do. For small amounts (And $700 is substantial, but it's still small when it comes to legal activities), it's just not worth the aggravation and bitterness it will bring into your life. When they are REALLY good at it - and my hard lesson WAS REALLY, REALLY good at it - there's only loss on your end. Cut the loss and move on. Let creativity breath again.... Mine is a life lesson a little larger than buying a product and getting ripped off. But it certainly applies. It along with other similar situations to yours is tne reason I always buy with a CC and preferably thru Paypal if the vendor accepts it. I don't tolerate fools or crooks, and I just cancel the order thru my CC or if necessary, thru PP. I WILL NOT WAIT months or years for a product. I will cancel long before that. Best of luck, and please, when your situation is over - warn others of the jerk / crook / thief! Thanks for taking your time writing this, Dr Bill. I know you and Chad are right. If I don’t hear anything after giving him one more chance, I’ll just drop it. Forgive?... Probably not. Thanks again!
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Post by matt@IAA on Mar 17, 2019 18:39:26 GMT -6
That website makes my eyes hurt.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2019 9:19:26 GMT -6
At 2 years a lawsuit is about all you have got left, if you paid by Credit Card or used Credit Via PayPal you can try your CC company but it’s probably to late.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2019 9:20:35 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. I don’t think this guy care about being exposed. It says right on his (new)website: “Forum people think we are making millions. Just trying to get this company going and keep the lights on is almost impossible. Sometimes we go for weeks without an order and that slows us down! One or two orders a month with no bank support or millions in google bucks. Arrrggg. We starve. Despite having to overcome many hurdles we are doing everything in our power to get your orders out. No Sales Makes Us Snails. There are a few hateful people out there that want to bully this little company out of business. Some of it outright slander and some of the same folks have ripped us off for units. Others don’t even own anything we make. We are not giving up. We need your orders to keep on going. Thanks. Threatening and Irritating email senders WILL BE BLOCKED. We do not engage in combative emails, forum discussions or social media.” I’ve been treating him with kids gloves on the hope I’ll get my money back. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I would’ve given up long ago, but I guess we all have our own threshold we’re willing to tolerate. Thanks again! Well BOO-HOO-HOO!
That sounds to me like this guy does it A LOT and at best is running a pyramid scheme, which is illegal. I'd contact the Better Business Bureau and the local district attorney in his area if he doesn't make good immediately.
BB IS THE BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME. They can do nothing but a quick shame on you.
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Post by svart on Mar 18, 2019 10:06:51 GMT -6
I wonder if Tony ever got his custom 8 channel converters from RM..
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 18, 2019 14:15:56 GMT -6
I wonder if Tony ever got his custom 8 channel converters from RM.. I've often wondered the same. I'm guessing no.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 18, 2019 15:52:25 GMT -6
Well BOO-HOO-HOO!
That sounds to me like this guy does it A LOT and at best is running a pyramid scheme, which is illegal. I'd contact the Better Business Bureau and the local district attorney in his area if he doesn't make good immediately.
BB IS THE BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME. They can do nothing but a quick shame on you. The only thing they're good for is warning off people who check the BB on unknown vendors before ordering. They don't really have any power to DO anything more, but for those who bother to check a negative BB rating can be useful.
That's why you contact the local DA, who DOES have the power.
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Post by Ward on Mar 18, 2019 17:52:28 GMT -6
I'd really appreciate knowing who to avoid!
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Post by Mister Chase on Mar 18, 2019 19:24:16 GMT -6
After being screwed by a highly shady fly by night contractor for something to the tune of 7000 to 10000 dollars, I've learned there isn't much you can do to get your money back.
Lawyers were talked to(this alone makes it worth not doing, smarmy asshats) and basically it would be much effort to probably never see a dime.
And that was close to 10 G's.
I'm sorry for what happened. I would still shoot a message off to the BBB and expose on the forums so others don't get caught in the trap.
I paid over 200 for an m49 body on the groupDIY page maybe 3 years ago. It never came, nor did any of the other dozen or so patrons get theirs. I've long since gotten over it, but will never forget the lesson. A shame they deleted that thread, too. It's just one of those things.
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Post by Mister Chase on Mar 18, 2019 19:25:41 GMT -6
Unfortunately his namesake was a very cool character actor on shows like the Twilight zone in the 60s.
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Post by LesC on Mar 18, 2019 19:59:32 GMT -6
I wonder if Tony ever got his custom 8 channel converters from RM.. That's the first thing I thought of when I began reading this thread. The funny thing is that so many of the people that have RM's converters rave about them. I always thought that his problems were personal issues and family problems. I still don't think he is actively evil, trying to scam his customer's money, but honestly believes that he can recover and deliver everything he's promised to deliver. I know that sounds naive, I do tend to think the best of people.
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Post by LesC on Mar 18, 2019 20:00:34 GMT -6
I'd really appreciate knowing who to avoid! I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but this thread is about Ross Martin.
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Post by yotonic on Mar 18, 2019 20:18:34 GMT -6
I have never understood why it's a good deal to save $500 on a convertor that you have to wait 1-3 years for. The opportunity cost and math just don't compute for me.
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Post by svart on Mar 18, 2019 21:01:23 GMT -6
I wonder if Tony ever got his custom 8 channel converters from RM.. That's the first thing I thought of when I began reading this thread. The funny thing is that so many of the people that have RM's converters rave about them. I always thought that his problems were personal issues and family problems. I still don't think he is actively evil, trying to scam his customer's money, but honestly believes that he can recover and deliver everything he's promised to deliver. I know that sounds naive, I do tend to think the best of people. They rave about the sound, but more often than not they have some kind of issue with reliability. In the beginning, it wasn't anything to hear about the boxes being returned multiple times for repair and yet people would still rave about them. I even designed a (superior) converter, and people would still pre-order his boxes on hype alone, even knowing they'd take a while and possibly need repair. Which leads me to wonder if he just got underwater with orders or did the constant cycle of repairs end up killing all his profits?
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Post by Ward on Mar 19, 2019 6:18:19 GMT -6
I'd really appreciate knowing who to avoid! I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but this thread is about Ross Martin. I gave up sarcasm for Lent. Seriously. And I was fairly certain it was, but I wanted to be COMPLETELY certain, and not have to add another to my 'steer clear' list. Thank you for confirmation.
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Post by jtc111 on Mar 19, 2019 14:54:13 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 19, 2019 19:26:20 GMT -6
If you had the gear he sent that was damaged, could you get it repaired elsewhere? If you can, perhaps ask him to send the damaged pieces and you'll stop contacting him.
I would probably pursue some form of legal action that exposed him. Even a small claims court form can be handled by mail or online. You don't have to follow through and waste more time and money, but it may be enough to force his hand to make good. This is also to forewarn your fellow gear buyers. Then, if little changes, like Chad said, you have to let it go.
I can't imagine buying anything from anyone if they don't insure their shipping, so try to remember to be more careful next time.
In my experience when something truly unjust happens to someone, something equally good and unexpected will come to you, especially if you can let it go.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 19, 2019 19:44:17 GMT -6
That's the first thing I thought of when I began reading this thread. The funny thing is that so many of the people that have RM's converters rave about them. I always thought that his problems were personal issues and family problems. I still don't think he is actively evil, trying to scam his customer's money, but honestly believes that he can recover and deliver everything he's promised to deliver. I know that sounds naive, I do tend to think the best of people. They rave about the sound, but more often than not they have some kind of issue with reliability. In the beginning, it wasn't anything to hear about the boxes being returned multiple times for repair and yet people would still rave about them. I even designed a (superior) converter, and people would still pre-order his boxes on hype alone, even knowing they'd take a while and possibly need repair. Which leads me to wonder if he just got underwater with orders or did the constant cycle of repairs end up killing all his profits? I replaced my Ross Martin with a Svartbox. Totally happy with that move. The RM was better than my previous (RME) which was better than my first (MBoxPro), but the Svartbox surpassed them by a good bit. Between that and the MOTU, I have stopped looking at converters when I think about how to upgrade my signal path. And it’s been totally reliable; beautifully done box.
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Post by keymod on Mar 20, 2019 3:58:13 GMT -6
If you had the gear he sent that was damaged, could you get it repaired elsewhere? If you can, perhaps ask him to send the damaged pieces and you'll stop contacting him. I would probably pursue some form of legal action that exposed him. Even a small claims court form can be handled by mail or online. You don't have to follow through and waste more time and money, but it may be enough to force his hand to make good. This is also to forewarn your fellow gear buyers. Then, if little changes, like Chad said, you have to let it go. I can't imagine buying anything from anyone if they don't insure their shipping, so try to remember to be more careful next time. In my experience when something truly unjust happens to someone, something equally good and unexpected will come to you, especially if you can let it go. Chasing money has been the bane of my Contracting business over the years. People always want the job done yesterday, but hold final payment seemingly forever. Even having signed contracts is pretty much useless. I've gone to Court several times over the years for large amounts of money and, even though I've won the lawsuits, collecting is a whole other issue. Sometimes takes years and then you're lucky to get fifty cents on the dollar or less. Sometimes you never see a dime and there's nothing else you can do about it, so the only real winners are the Lawyers on both sides. It's all a game to them.
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Post by Ward on Mar 20, 2019 5:58:29 GMT -6
He's not big on "MODIFYICATIONS"
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 20, 2019 13:55:12 GMT -6
Thanks guys, I was trying give him a month to make good on the refund before putting his name out there. I actually agree with whoever said they didn’t think he’s inherently evil. I’m pretty sure repairs have put him in a place where his next order pays for whoever has waited the longest.
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 20, 2019 14:03:09 GMT -6
If you had the gear he sent that was damaged, could you get it repaired elsewhere? If you can, perhaps ask him to send the damaged pieces and you'll stop contacting him. I would probably pursue some form of legal action that exposed him. Even a small claims court form can be handled by mail or online. You don't have to follow through and waste more time and money, but it may be enough to force his hand to make good. This is also to forewarn your fellow gear buyers. Then, if little changes, like Chad said, you have to let it go. I can't imagine buying anything from anyone if they don't insure their shipping, so try to remember to be more careful next time. In my experience when something truly unjust happens to someone, something equally good and unexpected will come to you, especially if you can let it go. I thought of going the small claims route, but filing fees are over $100 and then I’d be even more pissed when he didn’t pay. Thanks Martin!
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 20, 2019 14:08:26 GMT -6
I never said that... ;-) As per John Kennedy’s advice, I gave him a month to do the right thing before I publicly bash him, so best bet for everyone in the Pro Audio community is to play it safe and not buy ANYTHING until I do the reveal. Plugins are safe.
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Post by jtc111 on Mar 20, 2019 14:32:02 GMT -6
I never said that... ;-) As per John Kennedy’s advice, I gave him a month to do the right thing before I publicly bash him, so best bet for everyone in the Pro Audio community is to play it safe and not buy ANYTHING until I do the reveal. Plugins are safe. I modified my post.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 20, 2019 22:41:18 GMT -6
Would definitely side with everyone suggesting letting it go. Giving it time just extends and builds your emotional attachment to it. The audio world, IMHO, is like a user group of people who have gone to Mars. Transactions that should be transparent and fulfilled are reduced to baser human interaction where little or no recourse exists if it doesn't work out.
I've been through it three or four times and it just isn't worth the money and effort in the long run. I stopped putting money down on preorders and promises. Doesn't help you, I understand, but your PMI* will benefit greatly from letting this go.
*Positive Mental Attitude
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