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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 11, 2019 12:33:25 GMT -6
Sorry guys, been a crazy couple of days. Did a quick scan here......
You have to be careful with loopback tests as a way of testing/isolating things. For example, running a signal from PT through an Apollo to test the Apollo also tests the fact that PT is responsible for placing the audio correctly. I think John saw that when he switched to Cubase?
I've done similar tests and get the same erratic behavior where sometimes audio is place BEFORE the original in a loopback test. Our driver can't do that no matter what.
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 11, 2019 12:38:43 GMT -6
And to be clear.... our Delay Comp does increase the overall latency of Console when direct monitoring, but it doesn't impact the way audio is placed on the timeline. If that's happening, it's a DAW issue.
Hope this helps.
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Post by dankin on Mar 11, 2019 13:35:29 GMT -6
Apparently, I didn't have ignore errors checked. But I guess Pro Tools has never compensated converter delay for third party interfaces. Add on top of that it's not working correctly with UAD IDC. I've seen complaints about this, but honestly didn't really get it. There is no way to set an input offset for all audio in Pro Tools. Looks like I'll be heading to Cubase. www.gearslutz.com/board/avid-pro-tools/1146397-protools-11-12-printing-latency.htmlI was wrong, I thought I had messed with the recording offset in PT in the past, but I think it was the midi offset that I was using to fix Vi's printing late. I gave up on that though and just nudge them if they are late. If I'm doing much midi work, I use Logic anyway. I've been thinking of tracking in Logic as well, I'm just so used to PT for that.
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Post by bigbone on Mar 11, 2019 15:03:28 GMT -6
I don't want to stir anything. It's not clear,should someone use another interface beside UAD with ProTool or use another DAW then ProTool if you use a UAD interface. !!!
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Post by popmann on Mar 11, 2019 15:44:22 GMT -6
I wouldnt go near protools on a native system unless theres a reason you NEED to use it....ie, youre adding to sessions at night and taking them back to the studio the next day....Avid makes nice SYSTEMS. You dont want their SYSTEM? Protools is third tier software, IME.
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Post by drsax on Mar 12, 2019 6:25:46 GMT -6
I wouldnt go near protools on a native system unless theres a reason you NEED to use it....ie, youre adding to sessions at night and taking them back to the studio the next day....Avid makes nice SYSTEMS. You dont want their SYSTEM? Protools is third tier software, IME. ^^ This ^^ PT HD works great. I’m not a fan of PT Native. But Cubase with UA is excellent and has been flawless for me. My personal fav
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 6:55:52 GMT -6
Hey guys, A quick follow up here on the importance of delay comp in Console. Here are two screenshots of the same click being sent into two channels of an Apollo X. One channel has an API 550 EQ on it and one does not. Pic one has delay comp turned on, and pic two has it off. It's clear to see that it needs to be on to maintain phase alignment. Forgive me if I am being too elementary here, but I want to make sure that anyone that comes across this thread understands the importance.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 14, 2019 8:22:09 GMT -6
I've only ever recorded with my Apollo one mic at a time. Do I need to be concerned about delay compensation if I used say.. the Helios Unison plug-in to record with?
Since I've never used it, where exactly is the Delay Comp setting?
I do use Low Latency mode in Logic when tracking. Does that interact with Delay Comp?
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 11:57:53 GMT -6
I've only ever recorded with my Apollo one mic at a time. Do I need to be concerned about delay compensation if I used say.. the Helios Unison plug-in to record with? Since I've never used it, where exactly is the Delay Comp setting? I do use Low Latency mode in Logic when tracking. Does that interact with Delay Comp? Hey Martin, No and no. Delay comp, which is configured in Console/Settings/Hardware, doesn't impact anything other than aligning audio in Console before sending to the daw. Since you only do one mic at a time, you can safely turn it off.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2019 12:12:29 GMT -6
Hey guys, A quick follow up here on the importance of delay comp in Console. Here are two screenshots of the same click being sent into two channels of an Apollo X. One channel has an API 550 EQ on it and one does not. Pic one has delay comp turned on, and pic two has it off. It's clear to see that it needs to be on to maintain phase alignment. Forgive me if I am being too elementary here, but I want to make sure that anyone that comes across this thread understands the importance. View AttachmentView AttachmentBut Drew @ UA, you’re understanding that the issue is with the IDC not working in Pro Tools (at least Native), right? When using IDC with PT, the recording is being recorded late. So something is not working with the UA driver and PT.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2019 12:14:56 GMT -6
But yeah Martin - just keep it off and you have nothing to worry about.
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 12:22:30 GMT -6
Hey guys, A quick follow up here on the importance of delay comp in Console. Here are two screenshots of the same click being sent into two channels of an Apollo X. One channel has an API 550 EQ on it and one does not. Pic one has delay comp turned on, and pic two has it off. It's clear to see that it needs to be on to maintain phase alignment. Forgive me if I am being too elementary here, but I want to make sure that anyone that comes across this thread understands the importance. But Drew @ UA , you’re understanding that the issue is with the IDC not working in Pro Tools (at least Native), right? When using IDC with PT, the recording is being recorded late. So something is not working with the UA driver and PT. Yes, I understand and have seen the same issues in my tests, but the issue isn't in our driver.
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Post by bigbone on Mar 14, 2019 13:03:31 GMT -6
I've only ever recorded with my Apollo one mic at a time. Do I need to be concerned about delay compensation if I used say.. the Helios Unison plug-in to record with? Since I've never used it, where exactly is the Delay Comp setting? I do use Low Latency mode in Logic when tracking. Does that interact with Delay Comp? Hey Martin, No and no. Delay comp, which is configured in Console/Settings/Hardware, doesn't impact anything other than aligning audio in Console before sending to the daw. Since you only do one mic at a time, you can safely turn it off. Humm Not true. If you Overdub on a song, the track that you record,even one at a time, won't align on your project if there some latency . You got to make sure what your doing with Latency and delay comp or that could seriously fvck up your session.!!!!!
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 13:13:28 GMT -6
I'm talking about our delay comp. It does not impact the audio being sent to the DAW. It does impact the direct latency when monitoring through Console.
if audio isn't lining up correctly (as in John's case) it's a DAW issue.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2019 13:22:04 GMT -6
Certainly not trying to be contentious...but that's kind of a big issue...could that not be discussed with Avid? Or is it something they're not intending to fix because of them wanting to sell proprietary boxes?
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 13:35:46 GMT -6
I agree. Have you reported it to Avid John?
I'm not directly involved in discussing anything with Avid, but I've brought it up with those that do. What they choose to do is of course out of our control.
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Post by bigbone on Mar 14, 2019 13:53:21 GMT -6
I'm talking about our delay comp. It does not impact the audio being sent to the DAW. It does impact the direct latency when monitoring through Console. if audio isn't lining up correctly (as in John's case) it's a DAW issue. Nice to know. but in my personal experience,i did choose Apogee over UAD with my ProTools rig, That solve any probleme of Latency.!!!
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2019 15:05:56 GMT -6
I agree. Have you reported it to Avid John? I'm not directly involved in discussing anything with Avid, but I've brought it up with those that do. What they choose to do is of course out of our control. How would you go about that? The only support I know costs money. I bet I know their answer...”UA’s driver is sending the wrong information.”
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 15:15:30 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2019 15:39:36 GMT -6
Yeah - just opened a case with them. I pay for support...who knew? lol
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Post by reddirt on Mar 14, 2019 15:49:28 GMT -6
I have an early Prism Titan and couldn't do drop ins because the audio wouldn't land in the right spot. I thought it was just a USB thing and now use the Titan via Adat through my Metric Halo ULN2 which doesn't suffer those issues so any light being shed here is welcome. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2019 17:47:55 GMT -6
Only happens when UAD IDC is switched on.
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Post by Drew @ UA on Mar 14, 2019 18:45:19 GMT -6
Same with Cubase?
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 15, 2019 7:00:07 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 11:49:04 GMT -6
John, did you turn it off altogether or set it to “short”? Turned it off altogether. Aye, this was the first thing I did. I read about a lot of RTT issues with the Apollo's but noticed it was pretty high up (as in good) on a dedicated latency testing thread, then noticed it was due to the input delay.
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