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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2019 14:43:10 GMT -6
You talking ta me ? I know a guy, who knows a guy,,
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Warm WA-84
Feb 15, 2019 18:39:23 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Feb 15, 2019 18:39:23 GMT -6
You talking ta me ? I know a guy, who knows a guy,, I think I know that guy!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2019 18:56:06 GMT -6
Vinnnie or Marty from nyc?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2019 21:52:42 GMT -6
fuggedaboudit.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 15, 2019 22:29:55 GMT -6
If know a guy, but I don’t want to talk about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 2:12:23 GMT -6
johneppstein I've been searching for that Master Musicians of Joujouka/Brian Jones album for years. Had no idea it was 2 x KM84s, now I feel even better.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 16, 2019 3:50:19 GMT -6
johneppstein I've been searching for that Master Musicians of Joujouka/Brian Jones album for years. Had no idea it was 2 x KM84s, now I feel even better. Yeah, I remember reading an article about it a long, long, LONG time ago, back when the album was new. I really didn't know much about recording yet, but for some reason the fact that it said it was 2 KM84s and a Nagra recorder stuck in my mind. The first time I saw a Nagra I thought "Oh, so THAT'S what they used on that record!" And that was the first time I heard of a KM84. I already knew what a U47 was because my Aunt Hilda had one.
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Post by reddirt on Feb 16, 2019 5:10:57 GMT -6
One of my most revealing recordings was using the preamps of a Nagra with Schoeps mics in 1991 (don't know what models) . I could hear the tone of the pre even hough it was wonderfully open and obvious quality just as I could clearly hear the particular tone of the mics and the room ; beautiful and the sort of thing that sends you on Holy Grail searches! The other salient point was that my ears were in great nick then!
Cheers, Ross
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2019 5:38:43 GMT -6
“I knew a 47, because my aunt Hilda had one !”man,she’s the right kind of relative !!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2019 5:43:26 GMT -6
My 2 wa84 will be here Wednesday. Maybe I’ll go visit Sam in TO and we’ll mix and match 4 (2 stock, 2 switch caps) and publish an off axis shoot out just to mess with peep’s heads and ears !
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Post by M57 on Feb 16, 2019 5:57:07 GMT -6
So what might a good off-axis test look like? I'm not talking test-tones. I want a musical example. I'm not certain what you mean by "look like". I'm not talking about stats on paper or graphs of off axis frequency response. I'm talking about an actual recording. If you were tasked with creating a shoot-out video of the Neumann and the Warm, how might you go about creating a decent off-axis demonstration/comparison, say with an acoustic guitar? How would you set up the mics? What would it look like? One strategy that comes to mind, based on drbill 's description of what makes the KM-84 such a great mic, would be to record the instrument as you normally would, but also have one or two other instruments playing along live in the room, like drums, or drums and bass. Then A/B focusing on the bleed.
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Post by adamjbrass on Feb 16, 2019 6:22:57 GMT -6
^yup! Also listen to how much “room” is picked up in the solo example
Sometimes I just listen to the sides and back of the mics
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,982
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Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2019 11:08:08 GMT -6
I'm not certain what you mean by "look like". I'm not talking about stats on paper or graphs of off axis frequency response. I'm talking about an actual recording. If you were tasked with creating a shoot-out video of the Neumann and the Warm, how might you go about creating a decent off-axis demonstration/comparison, say with an acoustic guitar? How would you set up the mics? What would it look like? One strategy that comes to mind, based on drbill 's description of what makes the KM-84 such a great mic, would be to record the instrument as you normally would, but also have one or two other instruments playing along live in the room, like drums, or drums and bass. Then A/B focusing on the bleed. Set up mic walk around the room with headphones on talking, that’s how we did in them old’n days.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 16, 2019 11:25:42 GMT -6
“I knew a 47, because my aunt Hilda had one !”man,she’s the right kind of relative !! She was a piano teacher in NYC. Could have been a concert pianist except for her extreme stage fright. The living room of her apartment was full of two Steinway concert grands, with barely enough room to walk around them.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 16, 2019 11:30:54 GMT -6
I'm not certain what you mean by "look like". I'm not talking about stats on paper or graphs of off axis frequency response. I'm talking about an actual recording. If you were tasked with creating a shoot-out video of the Neumann and the Warm, how might you go about creating a decent off-axis demonstration/comparison, say with an acoustic guitar? How would you set up the mics? What would it look like? One strategy that comes to mind, based on drbill 's description of what makes the KM-84 such a great mic, would be to record the instrument as you normally would, but also have one or two other instruments playing along live in the room, like drums, or drums and bass. Then A/B focusing on the bleed. Yeah, you've got the general idea. You could play acoustic guitar at a distance of maybe 5 feet and walk all the way around the mic while playing. Or set one up on the snare drum and then play the hi-hat. Anything like that.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 16, 2019 12:28:07 GMT -6
I think a HUGE amount of the love IS comfort and familiarity. Certainly there could have been other mics that were equal or better that never "clicked" with folks for some reason and therefore are not "classics". Some of the Schoeps come to mind. There's a reason that it's a quality choice though. But who knows what will become the de facto standards in 30-50 years from now. Probably not the 184's. Yeah. I've heard a couple of things done with unknown Schoeps models that were really stunning, clear and vivid yet soft at the same time somehow. Haven't ever used one of any make. Myself, I've only lived with KM140's a long time and I never got on with them unless they were used in diffuse field conditions. I sold them off to buy various new and old models Sennheiser MKH series mics, and have been much happier with them, yet no on in studio music recording seems to even consider them, with their known audience being classical and film. Both the Sennheisers and the Schoeps seem to have the 'reach' thing too. The last acoustic guitar record I did with MKH mics mostly used a DMS set 3.5 feet out, mostly set wide cardioid, and it sounds much closer. Anyway, I've never had hands on with a well maintained set of KM84, only a fairly abused looking pair at another studio which lived on drum OH, they worked, but that's about all I can say! OTOH, I'm quite fond of the KM131 omni I got recently, and need to do some more comparisons with the MKH20. Carry on.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 12:45:32 GMT -6
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Feb 16, 2019 17:46:11 GMT -6
My 2 wa84 will be here Wednesday. Maybe I’ll go visit Sam in TO and we’ll mix and match 4 (2 stock, 2 switch caps) and publish an off axis shoot out just to mess with peep’s heads and ears ! I'll be VERY interested in sound clips !
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2019 18:45:35 GMT -6
My 2 wa84 will be here Wednesday. Maybe I’ll go visit Sam in TO and we’ll mix and match 4 (2 stock, 2 switch caps) and publish an off axis shoot out just to mess with peep’s heads and ears ! I'll be VERY interested in sound clips ! I was somewhat joking as Sam and I live 5 hours apart and we just had 30 cent. of snow, but you never know ?!
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,982
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2019 9:38:15 GMT -6
I think a HUGE amount of the love IS comfort and familiarity. Certainly there could have been other mics that were equal or better that never "clicked" with folks for some reason and therefore are not "classics". Some of the Schoeps come to mind. There's a reason that it's a quality choice though. But who knows what will become the de facto standards in 30-50 years from now. Probably not the 184's. Yeah. I've heard a couple of things done with unknown Schoeps models that were really stunning, clear and vivid yet soft at the same time somehow. Haven't ever used one of any make. Myself, I've only lived with KM140's a long time and I never got on with them unless they were used in diffuse field conditions. I sold them off to buy various new and old models Sennheiser MKH series mics, and have been much happier with them, yet no on in studio music recording seems to even consider them, with their known audience being classical and film. Both the Sennheisers and the Schoeps seem to have the 'reach' thing too. The last acoustic guitar record I did with MKH mics mostly used a DMS set 3.5 feet out, mostly set wide cardioid, and it sounds much closer. Anyway, I've never had hands on with a well maintained set of KM84, only a fairly abused looking pair at another studio which lived on drum OH, they worked, but that's about all I can say! OTOH, I'm quite fond of the KM131 omni I got recently, and need to do some more comparisons with the MKH20. Carry on..... Yeah Pop guys Never really got into The Senn RF condensers or the Schoeps, but those who have are very happy and all produce some excellent sounding records. I do think part of it is the fact that both are definitely designed to not be right on top of things and also for many years there was this classical snobbery as well as MI dealers didn’t have them or understand them.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Feb 17, 2019 10:44:17 GMT -6
I'll be VERY interested in sound clips ! I was somewhat joking as Sam and I live 5 hours apart and we just had 30 cent. of snow, but you never know ?! Damn, I did not know...
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Warm WA-84
Feb 17, 2019 12:45:43 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2019 12:45:43 GMT -6
We actually have a 3 week outdoor festival now called Winterlude, 15 kilometres of skating on the canal that runs through town and events all over the city: come if you dare !!
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 18, 2019 12:18:12 GMT -6
I think a HUGE amount of the love IS comfort and familiarity. Certainly there could have been other mics that were equal or better that never "clicked" with folks for some reason and therefore are not "classics". Some of the Schoeps come to mind. There's a reason that it's a quality choice though. But who knows what will become the de facto standards in 30-50 years from now. Probably not the 184's. Yeah. I've heard a couple of things done with unknown Schoeps models that were really stunning, clear and vivid yet soft at the same time somehow. Haven't ever used one of any make. Myself, I've only lived with KM140's a long time and I never got on with them unless they were used in diffuse field conditions. I sold them off to buy various new and old models Sennheiser MKH series mics, and have been much happier with them, yet no on in studio music recording seems to even consider them, with their known audience being classical and film. Both the Sennheisers and the Schoeps seem to have the 'reach' thing too. The last acoustic guitar record I did with MKH mics mostly used a DMS set 3.5 feet out, mostly set wide cardioid, and it sounds much closer. Anyway, I've never had hands on with a well maintained set of KM84, only a fairly abused looking pair at another studio which lived on drum OH, they worked, but that's about all I can say! OTOH, I'm quite fond of the KM131 omni I got recently, and need to do some more comparisons with the MKH20. Carry on..... I don't really see what the KM140, which is a transformerless body with interchanable capsules, has to do with the KM84, which is a transformer, cardioid mic. About the only thing they have in common is the SDC format.
The transformer preamp circuit is much simpler, which almost certainly has a lot to do with the characteristics that make the mic so desirable.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 18, 2019 12:22:43 GMT -6
Yeah. I've heard a couple of things done with unknown Schoeps models that were really stunning, clear and vivid yet soft at the same time somehow. Haven't ever used one of any make. Myself, I've only lived with KM140's a long time and I never got on with them unless they were used in diffuse field conditions. I sold them off to buy various new and old models Sennheiser MKH series mics, and have been much happier with them, yet no on in studio music recording seems to even consider them, with their known audience being classical and film. Both the Sennheisers and the Schoeps seem to have the 'reach' thing too. The last acoustic guitar record I did with MKH mics mostly used a DMS set 3.5 feet out, mostly set wide cardioid, and it sounds much closer. Anyway, I've never had hands on with a well maintained set of KM84, only a fairly abused looking pair at another studio which lived on drum OH, they worked, but that's about all I can say! OTOH, I'm quite fond of the KM131 omni I got recently, and need to do some more comparisons with the MKH20. Carry on..... I don't really see what the KM140, which is a transformerless body with interchanable capsules, has to do with the KM84, which is a transformer, cardioid mic. About the only thing they have in common is the SDC format. Almost none of what I said was about the KM140. FWIW. None of the rest had anything to do with the KM84 either....except the bit about the KM84's! : ) It was in direct response to a bit about Schoeps and others....
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 18, 2019 12:32:33 GMT -6
I don't really see what the KM140, which is a transformerless body with interchanable capsules, has to do with the KM84, which is a transformer, cardioid mic. About the only thing they have in common is the SDC format. Almost none of what I said was about the KM140. FWIW. None of the rest had anything to do with the KM84 either....except the bit about the KM84's! : ) It was in direct response to a bit about Schoeps and others.... Well, it was the only KM series mic mentioned in the post.
Btw I agree that some of the Schoeps are "sleeper classics". I've been aware of those for a long time, thanks to Dan Alexander, who was a big proponent.
I really don't have any experience with the Sennheiser MKHs. The oddball powering made them somewhat less interesting for a long time. I remember when one of then was in a hock shop that Dan sometimes used for financing back in the early days - I think it was about $150 and didn't sell for a long time. Shoulda grabbed it but I didn't know any better back then. But there was a lot of stuff I should have grabbed back then - hindsight is 20-20!
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