Post by stormymondays on Jan 23, 2019 12:23:47 GMT -6
I’m sure it’s a fine mic but after using the real thing for a few months now, and comparing it to some of its closest clones, there’s just no comparison.
The KM84 is like cheating. You can point it carelessly to any acoustic instrument and what you get sounds like a record already. Leakage always sounds good. I can’t believe Neumann won’t reissue it. Maybe they will!
I wouldn’t be surprised if the 3U SDC capsules can be screwed on to these. If so then there are already several capsule options. I’m curious as to how much of a difference the Cinemag transformer makes compared to 3U’s transformer.
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 23, 2019 13:57:01 GMT -6
There's a need for a really close clone of the KM84. Neumann's KM-184 isn't close enough, so that's a hard nut to crack. There are already many mics that look like the 84, but none sound like it. The only thing I've heard that's equal to it is the Soyuz 0-13. Personally I think it's a tossup between them, but stormymondays is right, you just point an 84 at something and it sounds great.
Post by jeromemason on Jan 23, 2019 14:05:22 GMT -6
He's going to make so much freaking money off this mic..... I have no clue why on earth someone hasn't bankrolled a company that has a good reputation for finding a way to create the same essential signal path on analog devices that are the staples of studios, but Warm is making it hard for anyone to want to hang on to those vintage 84's or 251's or damn near anything now because the only thing I can see that is effected is that 3% of mojo the old components gives vintage.
I've said for a while now that because of the tick down in pay from labels, whoever started making gear that allowed the shops that do a majority of the cutting to reduce overhead while sustaining quality would become a millionaire. It won't be long at all before these studios (other than Black Bird) start to sell off those vintage mic lockers and vintage rack gear for something that is very very close. I know for a fact that guys using clones from companies who really care about the sound/quality produce equally as good of tracks as what comes from the big studios. A producer I do a lot of work for, one project he sent me last year the band put up extra money to cut in a big studio in town, well I sent him a text asking him if he'd changed things because the sound didn't have the same feel and I liked the other way, that's when he told me they cut it in a big studio and not in his and that blew my mind.
Good quality components and careful calibration will yield great gear. And, because he doesn't have the massive patch bays and long tie lines his sound quality from his studio actually has a more robust and "pretty" sound. Crazy, but it's extremely true. I told him to up his studio cost's and let all the future projects hear the difference if that ever came up again. So far, I haven't mixed anything that wasn't cut in his place since.
Post by craigmorris74 on Jan 23, 2019 14:35:51 GMT -6
Looking at the mic, they've done a couple of things right. First, the vents on the body look to be consistent with the KM-84 and not the 184 and most Chinese SDCs-a property that contributes to the high end bump that most people don't like. Second, the diaphragm doesn't sit back in the capsule housing like the cheap SDCs that adds to the 7k peak that makes the mics unusable.
If they didn't screw up the diaphragms and the backplates of the capsule, and stayed true to the 84 amplifier, it should sound decent. Of course the 3u 127 C Flat will do about the same thing for less.
Worth noting that when I out up blind clips of the Warbler 127 vs KM84 here and on the purple site, it was a total crapshoot which was which. On one of the clips several people had to null them to make sure there wasn’t a file mixup and they were hearing the same file twice.
Throw a Cinemag transformer in there and I’m sure it sounds at least as good.
Unfortunately the email conversation I had with Guosheng about the Warbler was on another email account I no longer have access to, but -- he told me directly that the Warbler was "voiced" like a KM84 but was intentionally not a capsule clone. He made the 127C flat because people asked him to make one that "sounds like an 84" but at that point the original 127 cardioid version was already available (127C). The 127C flat actually shares voicing features with both the 84 and 184, but it's closer to the 84. But as you note, it is constructed differently.
When I say warbler in all but name, I don't mean a 127C flat. I mean made side by side in the same place, with a likely 84 capsule clone made by 3u, and a different transformer.
Warm is gonna sell a gazillion of those things.
Last Edit: Jan 23, 2019 15:09:00 GMT -6 by dogears
If you own a Stam unit and a Warm unit, go have a look at the back of the case. Note the warning labels, the color the case is painted, the serial number sticker, heck even the font and texture of the paint. In truth there are very few factories in China doing the same work. Most various products come from a very few number of suppliers.
Same shock mount as the 127. I suspect it’s a warbler in all but name and transformer.
Ah seriously why would you suggest such a thing? You are implying Warm has just rebranded somebody else’s work ?
Rebranded might be strong, but "outsourced" or "contracted out" would probably be appropriate words. It's possible Guosheng made some further tweaks to the capsules for Warm, so maybe they're a little bit different than the Warbler 127, but it's likely that they are the exact same cardioid flat capsule 3U sells for the 127. The specs are only 1db different between the Warm and Warbler. Kinda looks like the main differences are just the body and transformer but only Warm and 3U know for sure. Regardless, they seem like they will be nice microphones and I'd be interested to compare and see how much of a difference the Cinemag makes.
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 23, 2019 16:28:02 GMT -6
jeromemason I would say a 3% difference is a little conservative, but Warm has done a good job making good products whether they sound exactly like their vintage counterparts or not. I agree, they’re going to make a ton off of these.
Last Edit: Jan 23, 2019 16:28:24 GMT -6 by Vincent R.