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Post by Quint on Jan 2, 2019 16:08:09 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 2, 2019 16:29:23 GMT -6
Great price point. If it sounds as good as my old Advanced Audio CM251 it will make a lot of people happy. Curious to hear it, but like the WA47 I don’t think it will be in the same league as it’s more expensive counter parts, let alone the vintage originals. I’d love to be proven wrong, but it hasn’t happened yet.
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Post by veggieryan on Jan 2, 2019 16:30:57 GMT -6
Man, I hate to say but they did a nice job on the look and it seems they paid attention to details on this one. Can the repro mic market get any more crowded? Great time for people with limited budgets to get a decent sounding mic these days though.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 2, 2019 16:37:28 GMT -6
Man, I hate to say but they did a nice job on the look and it seems they paid attention to details on this one. Can the repro mic market get any more crowded? Great time for people with limited budgets to get a decent sounding mic these days though. Looks like an Apex 460 style body and a head grill I used to have on my CM12. It’s pretty popular on DIY C12s. microphone-parts.com/products/c12-grille-for-apex-460The color is great. You know exactly what it is when you see it. It probably has a similar power supply to their WA47. It’s a nice package for the price. |
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Post by aremos on Jan 2, 2019 18:01:47 GMT -6
More imitation ("clones") mics & with numbers 12,47, 67, 251, etc. & CHEAPer than ever. If Upton, Telefunken USA, Bock, etc are costing 5 times what this one costs there's something missing here. And isn't a "CEK-12" capsule a Peluso?
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 2, 2019 18:09:25 GMT -6
More imitation ("clones") mics & with numbers 12,47, 67, 251, etc. & CHEAPer than ever. If Upton, Telefunken USA, Bock, etc are costing 5 times what this one costs there's something missing here. And isn't a "CEK-12" capsule a Peluso? The CEK12 was designed by John Peluso, yes. A number of companies make them; Peluso, Advanced Audio, Microphone parts, and now Warm. |
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 2, 2019 18:24:04 GMT -6
It's truly such a simple circuit that if you can find a way to nail the capsule, that price point will yield a nice profit too. There's just not much to that circuit.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 2, 2019 19:09:10 GMT -6
Never knew that!
Chris
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Post by miscend on Jan 2, 2019 19:18:36 GMT -6
They’re using a brass capsule which is very interesting. Most of the cheaper clones used ordinary Chinese capsules like AA and Peluso.
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Post by 000 on Jan 2, 2019 21:49:05 GMT -6
The AA sounds incredible every place I’ve heard it. Dave’s mics seem to be a league higher than the Warm stuff - especially in the top end. The CM251 has been on my short list - would be interested to see how this stacks up. A lot of pressure on Warm considering all the current competition.
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Post by ragan on Jan 2, 2019 22:10:23 GMT -6
The AA sounds incredible every place I’ve heard it. Dave’s mics seem to be a league higher than the Warm stuff - especially in the top end. The CM251 has been on my short list - would be interested to see how this stacks up. A lot of pressure on Warm considering all the current competition. Component quality wise, they're very similar, with the Warm stuff having nicer transformers and a few other boutique-y parts. If anyone has the edge 'on paper' it's Warm. But of course sonics are subjective. |
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Post by roundbadge on Jan 2, 2019 22:13:23 GMT -6
good luck getting a CK12 capsule right.its a tough one for sure.
and having a brass ring doesn't do a lot of good if the capsule isn't made right.
T USA has a hard enough time getting them close.
Ive heard some brand new T usa stinkers for sure.when they're off they're downright shitty sounding mics.
heard more consistency capsule to capsule with the Bock Haun ones.[just saw a pre name blurb today he's doing a more affordable single pattern 241 again].
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Post by ericn on Jan 2, 2019 23:23:08 GMT -6
They Will sell a ton, 90% of those who buy them have never had a good 251 in front of them and will rave about the thing, those who know what a great example brings to the table will simply shake their heads. I’ll admit it if I were still in the game it would pay my rent for a while and I’m not ashamed to admit I would still take PT Barnum’s most famous words to the bank.
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Post by ericn on Jan 2, 2019 23:24:40 GMT -6
good luck getting a CK12 capsule right.its a tough one for sure. and having a brass ring doesn't do a lot of good if the capsule isn't made right. T USA has a hard enough time getting them close. Ive heard some brand new T usa stinkers for sure.when they're off they're downright shitty sounding mics. heard more consistency capsule to capsule with the Bock Haun ones.[just saw a pre name blurb today he's doing a more affordable single pattern 241 again]. One of our family mottos applies here “But if it were easy it wouldn’t be any fun” |
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Post by roundbadge on Jan 3, 2019 0:39:25 GMT -6
They Will sell a ton, 90% of those who buy them have never had a good 251 in front of them and will rave about the thing, those who know what a great example brings to the table will simply shake their heads. I’ll admit it if I were still in the game it would pay my rent for a while and I’m not ashamed to admit I would still take PT Barnum’s most famous words to the bank. just like all the other crap they sell. 1176 and the pultec..I'd rather use a plug in. |
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Post by ragan on Jan 3, 2019 0:58:45 GMT -6
Man. I'm really glad the electrons aren't as snobby as us humans.
Is Warm Audio the highest end gear out there? No. Is it solid and a good value? Hell yes it is.
They put a big target on their back disrupting the market the way they did several years ago when they sort of introduced the Budget Boutique thing. And it shows. Every Warm announcement thread is filled with a bunch of down-talking and You Kids Get Off My Lawn before anyone's heard the damn product.
It's much better than software equivalents (I've blind AB'd it with friends/engineers a dozen times) and, at least in the case of the 1176 and Pultec, better than the Behringer(KT) offerings. Though Behringer is trying to put them out of business with the zero-profit-scorched-earth thing.
It's not for everyone. Some can afford higher end stuff. Good for them. I like high end gear too and sometimes I shell out for it. That's no reason to resent the fact that the low end guys can also get their hands on some solid tools though. It's so trendy to trash Warm Audio and I think it's (in general) transparently disingenuous.
Where's the outrage at BAE and Vintech and Heritage and all the others for their clones filled with the same Cinemag/AMI/Kenetek/Wima/Carnhill/Sowter/Altran/etc that you find in the Warm stuff?
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Post by iamasound on Jan 3, 2019 2:00:58 GMT -6
A bit of a quieter equivalent noise than the listed Telefunken variety, by approximately 4dB.
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Post by iamasound on Jan 3, 2019 2:03:45 GMT -6
Man. I'm really glad the electrons aren't as snobby as us humans. Is Warm Audio the highest end gear out there? No. Is it solid and a good value? Hell yes it is. They put a big target on their back disrupting the market the way they did several years ago when they sort of introduced the Budget Boutique thing. And it shows. Every Warm announcement thread is filled with a bunch of down-talking and You Kids Get Off My Lawn before anyone's heard the damn product. It's much better than software equivalents (I've blind AB'd it with friends/engineers a dozen times) and, at least in the case of the 1176 and Pultec, better than the Behringer(KT) offerings. Though Behringer is trying to put them out of business with the zero-profit-scorched-earth thing. It's not for everyone. Some can afford higher end stuff. Good for them. I like high end gear too and sometimes I shell out for it. That's no reason to resent the fact that the low end guys can also get their hands on some solid tools though. It's so trendy to trash Warm Audio and I think it's (in general) transparently disingenuous. Where's the outrage at BAE and Vintech and Heritage and all the others for their clones filled with the same Cinemag/AMI/Kenetek/Wima/Carnhill/Sowter/Altran/etc that you find in the Warm stuff? Watch it, that guy above you has a BIG knife in his hand and is covered in blood. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2019 2:27:16 GMT -6
Ha ha, I think both points are valid but one can turn the more higher end value statement on it’s head as the very large majority of the current market won’t pay high end price: ever.
So, these people see more value per dollar spent in products like Warm’s. I personally find Bryce pretty transparent and a good business man. He is frank about looking to create the best lower cost version he can and he also runs a solid ship, releasing when his supply chain is in place and standing behind his products.
Bottom line for me is it’s good to have choices, depending on our preferences and how we define value. If this mike has the 251 qualities for most people it will simply introduce those to their recordings and mike locker for not crazy money: where’s the problem ?
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Post by hadaja on Jan 3, 2019 4:57:11 GMT -6
Well as a guy whp owned a bock 251 i kight be i terested in getting a wa-251. I also owned a wa-76 at one stage and also had the kt-76 of which i found suited me a little better then the warm audio equivalent product.
I think Warm Audio has its place as well as Behringer and as well as Bock. I have no problems with any ofthese companies.
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 3, 2019 6:28:11 GMT -6
That mic looks really good "on paper" and it costs less than half what the Golden Age Premier does: www.goldenagepremier.com/golden-age-premier-microphonesI've never used a 251 style mic. Any hints as to what to expect? Feel free to point me to some resources to do some reading/listening of my own  |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 3, 2019 7:08:02 GMT -6
They Will sell a ton, 90% of those who buy them have never had a good 251 in front of them and will rave about the thing, those who know what a great example brings to the table will simply shake their heads. I’ll admit it if I were still in the game it would pay my rent for a while and I’m not ashamed to admit I would still take PT Barnum’s most famous words to the bank. 98% (myself included). |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2019 7:27:48 GMT -6
The 251 was essentially the c12 with a rolled off top end, due to some added resisters I think. So, think smoother C12.
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Post by ericn on Jan 3, 2019 8:43:18 GMT -6
Man. I'm really glad the electrons aren't as snobby as us humans. Is Warm Audio the highest end gear out there? No. Is it solid and a good value? Hell yes it is. They put a big target on their back disrupting the market the way they did several years ago when they sort of introduced the Budget Boutique thing. And it shows. Every Warm announcement thread is filled with a bunch of down-talking and You Kids Get Off My Lawn before anyone's heard the damn product. It's much better than software equivalents (I've blind AB'd it with friends/engineers a dozen times) and, at least in the case of the 1176 and Pultec, better than the Behringer(KT) offerings. Though Behringer is trying to put them out of business with the zero-profit-scorched-earth thing. It's not for everyone. Some can afford higher end stuff. Good for them. I like high end gear too and sometimes I shell out for it. That's no reason to resent the fact that the low end guys can also get their hands on some solid tools though. It's so trendy to trash Warm Audio and I think it's (in general) transparently disingenuous. Where's the outrage at BAE and Vintech and Heritage and all the others for their clones filled with the same Cinemag/AMI/Kenetek/Wima/Carnhill/Sowter/Altran/etc that you find in the Warm stuff? It’s not an anti clone thing, I’m pro clone, hell I have owned Warm, Purple, ADL, own one of the cheap Heritage Dan Alexander. First mics are tricky, very tricky 95% comes down to the capsule. Hunter. aka Round Badge has as much experience as anybody with good examples and clones so he knows what they bring to the party so haveing been in the room with a couple of good examples I take him very seriously. We not anti great bargains, or Warm, the thing is we know of some pretty decent affordable gear that will give you great sound, it just isn’t chasing the classics! All gear is the sum of its parts, if you put a $50 transformer with a fashionable brand name in a sub $1K street price piece competing with $1500-2K examples some where your cutting corners, this is where KT- Behringer has a distinct advantage, they buy in huge numbers and make or have made parts to order and don’t care about fashion components, of course they are Behringer. Here is the thing every 414, C12 and ELAm clone builder should be worried to death of, Harmon / AKG has new owners and if Samsung suddenly wants to be taken seriously all they have to do is hire somebody like Tim Campbell, Shannon Rhodes or Mr Haun and let them loose with the AKG archives and all their high tech machinery! I’ll bet you would suddenly hear clones at a fairly reasonable price point that would impress everyone. From years of dealing with Japanese Audio manufacturers, I can tell you they all have a very large chip on their corporate shoulders and perhaps a greater sense of history than anyone in the west. |
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Post by ragan on Jan 3, 2019 11:51:01 GMT -6
Man. I'm really glad the electrons aren't as snobby as us humans. Is Warm Audio the highest end gear out there? No. Is it solid and a good value? Hell yes it is. They put a big target on their back disrupting the market the way they did several years ago when they sort of introduced the Budget Boutique thing. And it shows. Every Warm announcement thread is filled with a bunch of down-talking and You Kids Get Off My Lawn before anyone's heard the damn product. It's much better than software equivalents (I've blind AB'd it with friends/engineers a dozen times) and, at least in the case of the 1176 and Pultec, better than the Behringer(KT) offerings. Though Behringer is trying to put them out of business with the zero-profit-scorched-earth thing. It's not for everyone. Some can afford higher end stuff. Good for them. I like high end gear too and sometimes I shell out for it. That's no reason to resent the fact that the low end guys can also get their hands on some solid tools though. It's so trendy to trash Warm Audio and I think it's (in general) transparently disingenuous. Where's the outrage at BAE and Vintech and Heritage and all the others for their clones filled with the same Cinemag/AMI/Kenetek/Wima/Carnhill/Sowter/Altran/etc that you find in the Warm stuff? It’s not an anti clone thing, I’m pro clone, hell I have owned Warm, Purple, ADL, own one of the cheap Heritage Dan Alexander. First mics are tricky, very tricky 95% comes down to the capsule. Hunter. aka Round Badge has as much experience as anybody with good examples and clones so he knows what they bring to the party so haveing been in the room with a couple of good examples I take him very seriously. We not anti great bargains, or Warm, the thing is we know of some pretty decent affordable gear that will give you great sound, it just isn’t chasing the classics! All gear is the sum of its parts, if you put a $50 transformer with a fashionable brand name in a sub $1K street price piece competing with $1500-2K examples some where your cutting corners, this is where KT- Behringer has a distinct advantage, they buy in huge numbers and make or have made parts to order and don’t care about fashion components, of course they are Behringer. Here is the thing every 414, C12 and ELAm clone builder should be worried to death of, Harmon / AKG has new owners and if Samsung suddenly wants to be taken seriously all they have to do is hire somebody like Tim Campbell, Shannon Rhodes or Mr Haun and let them loose with the AKG archives and all their high tech machinery! I’ll bet you would suddenly hear clones at a fairly reasonable price point that would impress everyone. From years of dealing with Japanese Audio manufacturers, I can tell you they all have a very large chip on their corporate shoulders and perhaps a greater sense of history than anyone in the west. I don't really disagree with anything you say here, except the implication that the relationship between retail price and inherent quality is linear. I don't think it is at all. Some corners that are cut do in fact affect the sonics and performance, some don't at all. Paint jobs, metal work and western labor are all factored into a high end piece and not in an overseas made product like Warm or Stam. Jacks and switches can be downgraded to non-boutique-favs and still maintain a good level of quality and longevity. Each piece and each company is its own complex equation as far as what exactly the buyer is paying for. Sometimes you're paying a lot just for prestige. Even when it's earned prestige (say Neumann) it's still something that someone on a limited budget would be smart to avoid spending money on. There's just no simple, straightforward way to map out cost and quality. But it's certainly not linear. The Warm 251 will undoubtedly not have all the magic of a pristine vintage original. But is an original a 30x better mic? Take a Peluso or Pearlman 47 clone or something. It's not a mint original, but is it 7x worse a mic? I think making any strict generalizations is a fool's errand here. Saying, "A $700 _________ could never compete with a $2000 ______" based on the prices is just false in my experience. Sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes a cheaper option with fewer middlemen and less pedigree is equal or better. And saying everything Warm or Stam or whoever makes is 'crap' just tells me not to take that person seriously, regardless of their status and reputation. |
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