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Post by peterhess on Dec 29, 2018 22:58:32 GMT -6
Hey folks: here’s what’s going to seem like a boneheaded, amateurish question to a lot of you, but here goes anyway. I don’t have the luxury of anything but wall power. Everything in my rack goes to standard issue Furman M8x strips, but I have a feeling those ought to be running to something better than the wall. The building is 100+ years old but the electric was replaced 15 years ago. Q: would I be well-served by some sort of voltage regulator? And if the answer is the anticipated “hell yes”, what do you suggest? Many thanks as always. P
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Post by ragan on Dec 30, 2018 1:02:45 GMT -6
Hey folks: here’s what’s going to seem like a boneheaded, amateurish question to a lot of you, but here goes anyway. I don’t have the luxury of anything but wall power. Everything in my rack goes to standard issue Furman M8x strips, but I have a feeling those ought to be running to something better than the wall. The building is 100+ years old but the electric was replaced 15 years ago. Q: would I be well-served by some sort of voltage regulator? And if the answer is the anticipated “hell yes”, what do you suggest? Many thanks as always. P What makes you think there’s anything wrong with the voltage in your wall? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2018 1:17:36 GMT -6
Ya, before spending money, you can test the voltage and are you having any electrical problems at all ?
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Dec 30, 2018 2:43:30 GMT -6
If your mains is reliable you shouldn't have much trouble. Most issues are caused by ground loops.
The power coming into your building is basically a massive 50/60hz hum. In a good power system this is many magnitudes higher than any other "noise" on the line. By default audio equipment designers have to eliminate this 50/60hz hum and in doing so also remove any other unwanted noise.
If your wall voltage is close to spec and you don't have brown outs then a voltage regulator isn't needed. Surge protection is the one thing I have. But in the event of a storm I unplug my gear anyway.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2018 10:59:05 GMT -6
Use a multimeter to check the voltage coming out of the wall then let’s talk, no reason to worry just to worry. Funny thing is in many ways old knob and tube wiring is much better than modern wiring. Granted it can be dangerous as hell exposed conductors, stupid humans and other animals don’t mix well but..,😎
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Post by lcr on Dec 30, 2018 11:46:36 GMT -6
Hey dont insult stupid humans or animals. Its 2019!
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Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2018 12:00:59 GMT -6
Your electrical install is 15 years old, so it should be to modern code.
You want to look at voltage for different times of day: are you near heavy industry that sucks it down in the day and it then goes high at night?
Are there any large electric motor systems on your line that contribute to the above, and do you see temporary surges because of it?
The great thing about an Audio Precision test set is it reads voltage and waveform distortion right off the wall socket from being plugged in and turned on. Can you borrow or rent one? Or something similar?
Other things:
Do you hear Power Co. test chirps? Those can be filtered out, but you have to make a strong argument with them to have them do so. I've known of places that had that problem even while on power regulation.
Do you have any RF problems from a nearby radio tower? Many times that's solved with a check of grounding, and it seems you should be good there.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 30, 2018 14:23:07 GMT -6
Do you have any RF problems from a nearby radio tower? Many times that's solved with a check of grounding, and it seems you should be good there. Can you elaborate on this? I get massive amounts of RF interference in my guitar amps. Depending on the guitar/pedal/amp combo I get blaring radio coming from my amps. Really annoying. I’m planning on thoroughly insulating my guitar cavities with copper tape and have thought of doing something similar with my guitar amps but am not sure how to proceed. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 30, 2018 15:07:41 GMT -6
If I can make a suggestion without having to spend 10 pages defending it, start with an improved receptacle. I've heard noticeable improvements in noise level and bass solidity and imaging between the standard outlet in my apartment and the upgraded outlets. Of course, someone will say get ____, it's only $3.95 at the hardware store and it's just as good. That's not been my experience, so, here ya go: www.psaudio.com/products/power-port-classic/Attachments:
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2018 15:23:32 GMT -6
If I can make a suggestion without having to spend 10 pages defending it/ Hahahahahaaaaaaa!!!! Sorry Martin, your statement just made me laugh so hard. I agree with you 100%!!!! Although I think there are probably other options that cost a fraction of the cost with 95% of the benefit. Start at the beginning and get things right. Understand star grounding. Understand how to wire a studio. Mysteriously, when you get that right, all problems start to disappear..... Or at least become manageable. To the OP's question. I agree with everyone else. Unless you're having surges (I used to get em up to 145v) or brownouts (I used to get those down to 90v too), you don't need regulation. Delivering great power to the studio and it's equipment is the first step. And Martin's suggestion is the cheapest and easiest place to start. After that...you're getting into tearing up the drywall and running 12 or 10 ga to your studio receptacles, making home run's instead of looping between receptacles, putting in a separate feed or sub panel to the studio with it's own ground, rewiring all your audio cables to meet star ground spec's, etc.. Gets tweaky. Star grounding 101.... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 30, 2018 15:45:54 GMT -6
As drbill alluded to, there are many complicated and expensive steps to getting a studio or workspace properly wired up. Some of it's over my head. For $50, you can try the PS Audio outlet, and send it back if you don't hear immediate improvements. I don't currently have massive kilobuck cabling in my apartment, although I did 15 years back. But just changing the outlet was a great beginning and I can absolutely hear a difference between the standard outlet in my apartment and my replacement one. Think about how important a blacker background is to mixing, you'll get at least that with the PS Audio outlet.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 30, 2018 16:10:20 GMT -6
If I can make a suggestion without having to spend 10 pages defending it, start with an improved receptacle. I've heard noticeable improvements in noise level and bass solidity and imaging between the standard outlet in my apartment and the upgraded outlets. Of course, someone will say get ____, it's only $3.95 at the hardware store and it's just as good. That's not been my experience, so, here ya go: www.psaudio.com/products/power-port-classic/I bring these guys in for a ceremony before I ever plug anything in  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 30, 2018 16:23:52 GMT -6
Well, maybe they know something we don't ;-)
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2018 16:56:59 GMT -6
If I can make a suggestion without having to spend 10 pages defending it, start with an improved receptacle. I've heard noticeable improvements in noise level and bass solidity and imaging between the standard outlet in my apartment and the upgraded outlets. Of course, someone will say get ____, it's only $3.95 at the hardware store and it's just as good. That's not been my experience, so, here ya go: www.psaudio.com/products/power-port-classic/I bring these guys in for a ceremony before I ever plug anything in I've seen those guys around. They do reverse polarized, neuro magnetic particulate star grounding. I think they have a patented trademark for the process and call it "lunar grounding". Seems to work most of the time..... Except on the solstice windows of demarcation. Funny that you bring this up, because my personal take on grounding, power and wiring has always been : 85% follow the rules to the letter. 10% break the rules till you find out what works. 5% employ voodoo and stand on your head for days if necessary. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 30, 2018 17:27:52 GMT -6
I was once taught a secret ancient Egyptian ceremony for clearing the energy felt in spaces. I have no idea if it actually works, but it sure feels like it does. Of course I might be biased because I expect a result, but many people have commented on how good they feel in the room after I'm finished with no cue or solicitation from me whatsoever.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2018 20:52:54 GMT -6
If I can make a suggestion without having to spend 10 pages defending it/ Hahahahahaaaaaaa!!!! Sorry Martin, your statement just made me laugh so hard. I agree with you 100%!!!! Although I think there are probably other options that cost a fraction of the cost with 95% of the benefit. Start at the beginning and get things right. Understand star grounding. Understand how to wire a studio. Mysteriously, when you get that right, all problems start to disappear..... Or at least become manageable. To the OP's question. I agree with everyone else. Unless you're having surges (I used to get em up to 145v) or brownouts (I used to get those down to 90v too), you don't need regulation. Delivering great power to the studio and it's equipment is the first step. And Martin's suggestion is the cheapest and easiest place to start. After that...you're getting into tearing up the drywall and running 12 or 10 ga to your studio receptacles, making home run's instead of looping between receptacles, putting in a separate feed or sub panel to the studio with it's own ground, rewiring all your audio cables to meet star ground spec's, etc.. Gets tweaky. Star grounding 101.... I’ll get even more basic Bill shut down the main breaker, get out the proper size screw driver and or Allen wrench loosen and retighten the connections to nuteral, ground buss and breaker, also check for corrosion. Pull and reseat breaker. Pull outlet do the same with the wires on the outlets! Amazing the problems this can solve. In fact my building is currently converting 4 floors to residential and they are using the same electrical contractor who did the conversion 2-3 years ago of my place; on Thursday I was telling the guys how much better things were after I retightened everything ! |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2018 22:04:03 GMT -6
Do you have any RF problems from a nearby radio tower? Many times that's solved with a check of grounding, and it seems you should be good there. Can you elaborate on this? I get massive amounts of RF interference in my guitar amps. Depending on the guitar/pedal/amp combo I get blaring radio coming from my amps. Really annoying. I’m planning on thoroughly insulating my guitar cavities with copper tape and have thought of doing something similar with my guitar amps but am not sure how to proceed. High gain instrument amps are the biggest pain of all. You have any problem with amp on but nothing plugged into it? Many times it is the instrument itself, but not always. |
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Post by peterhess on Dec 30, 2018 23:02:09 GMT -6
Excellent!
I may well change that receptacle, get some incantations going, burn some spectacular incense, and stand on my head.
Really, though, thanks for the advice. Truth is there’s no eminent problem, no rf, no hum... more concerned I was being a dumbass and overlooking something about supplying proper power to the rack. Great advice here, grateful. Thanks for taking the time! P
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 6:19:25 GMT -6
I was once taught a secret ancient Egyptian ceremony for clearing the energy felt in spaces. I have no idea if it actually works, but it sure feels like it does. Of course I might be biased because I expect a result, but many people have commented on how good they feel in the room after I'm finished with no cue or solicitation from me whatsoever. Teach it to me please! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2018 8:06:03 GMT -6
I was once taught a secret ancient Egyptian ceremony for clearing the energy felt in spaces. I have no idea if it actually works, but it sure feels like it does. Of course I might be biased because I expect a result, but many people have commented on how good they feel in the room after I'm finished with no cue or solicitation from me whatsoever. Teach it to me please! In my live days we had the pre- gig prayer to the god of sound and light “ Help,please, thank you.” We figured he was busy and didn’t need us blowing a bunch of smoke up his ass or our gear blowing smoke, just Roscoe Fog😁 |
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Post by Ward on Dec 31, 2018 10:23:03 GMT -6
Ask a certified Master Electrician for a plan that includes multiple circuits, independent grounding (earthing) runs, insulated and isolated power lines etc.
You would be amazed the difference this makes.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2018 12:23:49 GMT -6
Ask a certified Master Electrician for a plan that includes multiple circuits, independent grounding (earthing) runs, insulated and isolated power lines etc. You would be amazed the difference this makes. 2 things. 1 first in any old house the words “new wiring “ are open to interpretation get one of those 5 outlet testers that shows polarityand ground. Open up the outlet and make sure 3 prong outlet is grounded to ground not just the metal box. 2 realize any major re-wiring means holes in the walls so factor patching dry wall and paint in as well! |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 31, 2018 12:59:42 GMT -6
Ask a certified Master Electrician for a plan that includes multiple circuits, independent grounding (earthing) runs, insulated and isolated power lines etc. You would be amazed the difference this makes. 2 things. 1 first in any old house the words “new wiring “ are open to interpretation get one of those 5 outlet testers that shows polarity and ground. Open up the outlet and make sure 3 prong outlet is grounded to ground not just the metal box. 2 realize any major re-wiring means holes in the walls so factor patching dry wall and paint in as well! Yes! Know that none of the quick check testers show reverse polarity bootleg ground which can be deadly, and I've found most are fooled when plugged into a 3 prong power strip plugged into an ungrounded 3 prong outlet. www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=716 |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2018 18:01:38 GMT -6
2 things. 1 first in any old house the words “new wiring “ are open to interpretation get one of those 5 outlet testers that shows polarity and ground. Open up the outlet and make sure 3 prong outlet is grounded to ground not just the metal box. 2 realize any major re-wiring means holes in the walls so factor patching dry wall and paint in as well! Yes! Know that none of the quick check testers show reverse polarity bootleg ground which can be deadly, and I've found most are fooled when plugged into a 3 prong power strip plugged into an ungrounded 3 prong outlet. www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=716Yeah you really do need to check the outlet box, in Galveston it always amazed me how many 3 prong outlets were wired with 6in of 2 plus ground tails 2 the box but rest of the cable was 2 conductor. |
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Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2019 9:06:10 GMT -6
Ask a certified Master Electrician for a plan that includes multiple circuits, independent grounding (earthing) runs, insulated and isolated power lines etc. You would be amazed the difference this makes. 2 things. 1 first in any old house the words “new wiring “ are open to interpretation get one of those 5 outlet testers that shows polarityand ground. Open up the outlet and make sure 3 prong outlet is grounded to ground not just the metal box. 2 realize any major re-wiring means holes in the walls so factor patching dry wall and paint in as well! It this is for his studio, right? And you want new wiring there even more so than his house. You’re going to go through some tear-up and reconstruction anyhow... so don’t neglect the hiring and don’t just tie to the water mains pipe for your ‘grounding’ |
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