|
Post by formatcyes on Dec 20, 2018 14:39:36 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by lcr on Dec 20, 2018 14:51:59 GMT -6
I'm sure John will poo poo this, but I've been using the UAD B-15 for a while now. Anyway - I'm really pretty happy with this. Here's new strings - which made a really big difference, the B-15--API EQ--DBX 160. My apologies to all the real bass players on the forum View AttachmentView AttachmentTry duplicating the DI track, keeping one as a DI track and the other your Ampeg amp model. Blend both to a buss and treat the buss as the bass track.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 20, 2018 18:14:38 GMT -6
BTW - someone asked what I was looking for...like Pino Palladino on John Mayer Continuum
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 20, 2018 18:16:58 GMT -6
I'm sure John will poo poo this, but I've been using the UAD B-15 for a while now. Anyway - I'm really pretty happy with this. Here's new strings - which made a really big difference, the B-15--API EQ--DBX 160. My apologies to all the real bass players on the forum View AttachmentView AttachmentTry duplicating the DI track, keeping one as a DI track and the other your Ampeg amp model. Blend both to a buss and treat the buss as the bass track. Man - that's exactly what I was thinking. I have no idea why I haven't done this before (laziness), but I usually dup the bass part in mixes I do for other people and have a dirty/brighter and a sub thump...
|
|
|
Post by lando on Dec 21, 2018 1:51:15 GMT -6
It’s mainly in the hands.... This is extremely true. Secondly important is the bass, then maybe the strings then far below that is everything else.
|
|
|
Post by javamad on Dec 21, 2018 4:11:51 GMT -6
One thing that helps bring out punch is muting the non-playing strings. Basses are resonance machines and you would be surprised what not having the other strings moving, sending mud through the pickups- will do to sharpen the tone. This is why a lot of times adding some synth bass helps .. it strengthens the notes you do want.
As an experiment, come up with a single-string bass line. Play it with no muting, then play it having taped up all the other strings. Compare, it should be much tighter.
This is why - as guitar players - we are always surprised when a pro bass player does the same bass line as us but it just sounds better.
... or maybe you’re a killer player and you already have this covered :-D
|
|
|
Post by sirthought on Dec 21, 2018 6:35:42 GMT -6
On the Apollo, you can approach tracking it just like you would in Matt Hep's video where he'd put the Ampeg amp sim on the Aux channel and print that, but also print the main channel clean. I haven't actually tried the 15, but I own the other two and really love the SVT. I've tried the bass with the Buxom Betty too and it had it's own cool vibe.
Strings are super important to the attack and sound of a bass. I've been using flats lately for something new, but mostly in bands I play with nickel rounds. They just hit that rockin' spot for me. You get more finger noise, so those hybrid styles might be preferable.
If you want Pino Palladino, you need a P-Bass style thump.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 21, 2018 7:25:07 GMT -6
BTW - someone asked what I was looking for...like Pino Palladino on John Mayer Continuum I listened to that. The bass is mostly mids, distorted but has the top end rolled off slightly so it's not fizzy, and it has very little bottom end. The standout is that it's very percussive. The finger plucks are very hard and I don't hear much change in level even in the lightest plucks, so it has significant leveling happening. Probably LA2A doing a lot of work considering I can hear it clamping down after the attack. I also listened to your Basschain mp3 and the notable difference is that yours has a much more pronounced low-mid area, almost woolly/muddy sounding compared to Pino's bass. Maybe just back off the lows and the low-mids and add some percussive attack with slow compressor (dbx160/LA2A) doing a lot of GR and you'll be close.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 21, 2018 7:26:35 GMT -6
I have found that Blue Steel strings have a little more beef and spank than your average set of strings.
Also, I would recommend picking or plucking the strings harder in general.
I really do like the Fender Custom Shop pickups for bass or guitar, I have a '54 in my "P bass"
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 21, 2018 8:11:06 GMT -6
One more thing, after listening to the John Mayer tracks some more, I think this was likely small drivers being mic'd. Probably 10" speakers, mic'd a bit back, probably with something like a D112.
My SVT and 10" eminence speakers have a tendency to "jump" a bit on hard hits and can make a percussive attack.
Anyway, I found some talk on a bass forum that said that Pino was using an Ampeg rig on Continuum, but I've been unable to find any studio pics or vids of that session to verify. He definitely uses a P bass though, possibly with flatwounds. More hearsay says that he keeps the volume knob maxed but the tone knob almost all the way down.
EDIT: Some live vid, SVT's and 8x10 stacks.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,976
|
Post by ericn on Dec 21, 2018 8:36:00 GMT -6
On the Apollo, you can approach tracking it just like you would in Matt Hep's video where he'd put the Ampeg amp sim on the Aux channel and print that, but also print the main channel clean. I haven't actually tried the 15, but I own the other two and really love the SVT. I've tried the bass with the Buxom Betty too and it had it's own cool vibe. Strings are super important to the attack and sound of a bass. I've been using flats lately for something new, but mostly in bands I play with nickel rounds. They just hit that rockin' spot for me. You get more finger noise, so those hybrid styles might be preferable. If you want Pino Palladino, you need a P-Bass style thump. I was going to say you want Pino, you need Pino😁
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 21, 2018 8:46:08 GMT -6
So I decided to play around while drinking my coffee. I took John's basschain.mp3 and then LPF it to be more like a tone rolloff on a P bass, then added saturation like an amp, then EQ'd to be more mid heavy and bass light like a mic on a small driver (ala 8x10) and then finally compressed it with something more like an LA2A would sound, a slow knee, 1/2 second release with auto release on top. I think it sounds a lot more like Pino's bass in the Mayer tracks now. basstest.mp3 (918.36 KB)
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 21, 2018 10:29:16 GMT -6
One more thing, after listening to the John Mayer tracks some more, I think this was likely small drivers being mic'd. Probably 10" speakers, mic'd a bit back, probably with something like a D112. My SVT and 10" eminence speakers have a tendency to "jump" a bit on hard hits and can make a percussive attack. Anyway, I found some talk on a bass forum that said that Pino was using an Ampeg rig on Continuum, but I've been unable to find any studio pics or vids of that session to verify. He definitely uses a P bass though, possibly with flatwounds. More hearsay says that he keeps the volume knob maxed but the tone knob almost all the way down. EDIT: Some live vid, SVT's and 8x10 stacks. I think at the Continuum time period, Pino was using this odd solid state amp and a cab that had a ton of 5” drivers in it. I can’t seem to find the article online where I read that though. I spoke to Joe Ferla about those sessions back when I was assisting him on a jazz record, and he was WAY into beyerdynamic mics (he almost exclusively was using them) at the time. He had the bass and bass drum mic’ed up with M88’s. Afterwards I purchased 3 of them hahah. Pino is a P bass with TI flats and tone rolled off guy. Another thing I always notice with badass pros is how light their touch seems to be. Crank the amp, and they are seriously fluid with their right hand to the point where they barely touch them. That was pretty eye opening for me and turned me off of my heavy heavy finger plucking approach.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 21, 2018 10:34:24 GMT -6
M88TG is one of my favorite bass amp mics! also great in or out of a kick drum.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 21, 2018 10:44:43 GMT -6
I think at the Continuum time period, Pino was using this odd solid state amp and a cab that had a ton of 5” drivers in it. I can’t seem to find the article online where I read that though. I spoke to Joe Ferla about those sessions back when I was assisting him on a jazz record, and he was WAY into beyerdynamic mics (he almost exclusively was using them) at the time. He had the bass and bass drum mic’ed up with M88’s. Afterwards I purchased 3 of them hahah. Pino is a P bass with TI flats and tone rolled off guy. Another thing I always notice with badass pros is how light their touch seems to be. Crank the amp, and they are seriously fluid with their right hand to the point where they barely touch them. That was pretty eye opening for me and turned me off of my heavy heavy finger plucking approach. Looks like Pino uses a Phil Jones rig with the 5's. The light touch quoted above is really something to note too. I've worked with some great players and many of them crank the amp way up and basically feather the strings. Totally different than the way 90% of guys play, but usually these guys are unreal.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 21, 2018 10:59:09 GMT -6
He could be using flatwounds that would kind of account for the high end roll off.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 21, 2018 11:00:05 GMT -6
And I just mentioned that as a reference. I don’t have pictures of Pino on my wall lol
|
|
|
Post by matt on Dec 21, 2018 11:23:53 GMT -6
Try duplicating the DI track, keeping one as a DI track and the other your Ampeg amp model. Blend both to a buss and treat the buss as the bass track. Man - that's exactly what I was thinking. I have no idea why I haven't done this before (laziness), but I usually dup the bass part in mixes I do for other people and have a dirty/brighter and a sub thump... Here's my current method of managing bass. I feed the bass DI track (we don't record an amp) into two aux tracks: UAD WT-800 (clean lows) and B-15 (dirty mids) in parallel, then into UAD LA2A Grays. I bus these back down into a mono aux with Pro C2 (kick sidechain only, 1 db reduction max), Pro Q2, Pendulum OCL-500 on a HW insert, then finally into an instance of Waves L2 for final level, pushing no more than 2-3 db of limiting to keep the tone intact. My bassist has a very light touch and we always struggle with getting a good level when recording and also at mix. He uses a J-Bass most of the time but lately we've had good luck with a G&L. Consistency of touch/technique is critical. For the DI, we currently use a Slate Fox pre with the circuit set to modern/normal. If there's any hum in the signal I clean it up using Izotope RX7- it has saved several good performances marred by poor grounding on his J, which took us a while to identify. He also moved to flatwounds to reduce finger/string noise and is looking into active pickups to hopefully eliminate hum. It's a work in progress for us, we are never satisfied!
|
|