|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Oct 31, 2018 20:42:41 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
I've not seen any tutorials or heard anyone speak of this before if I recall, but I routinely use Waves Q10 or other high Q capable EQ to zoom in on these "ringing frequencies" to make electric guitar sounds more palatable. I hear them very very readily when I track and mix. They sort of drive me batty despite having fairly worn ears(at least the left one).
It seems very common. Though I am sure the higher the quality guitar/pickup/amp, the less you run into this. The "Soothe" plugin really seems like it would be perfect.
Basically most guitars almost sound like someone is whistling it is so loud and it really masks the tone of the guitar. Its usually around 1.8 to 2.2khz in there.
You can obviously go way overboard chasing every one of these down and subtracting too much. The harmonics are good, just not the "Ted Bundy's" or "Dahmers"
Anyhow. Just curious what you guys think.
|
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Nov 1, 2018 0:24:32 GMT -6
Yea I get it
I wish more guitarists would
I use soothe for it
Or if just one or two then yep some high Q points
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 0:27:57 GMT -6
Yea I get it I wish more guitarists would I use soothe for it Or if just one or two then yep some high Q points Gotcha. Yea, I'm a guitarist myself but I don't think most are aware of this. I am very interested in Soothe. Does it work as well as it claims? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 2:24:04 GMT -6
The De-Resonate function in the Tokyo Dawn Labs EQs is great for this. Try out the demos, works great on guitar tracks. In full disclosure am a beta tester for them and get them free.
|
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Nov 1, 2018 3:50:10 GMT -6
I don't know what it claims but I love soothe Hermetech, someone raised you good. You're giving a disclosure even when the product is free to download Btw, here's what the engineer did to the vocals off some song, anyone heard of rolling in the deep?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 8:31:30 GMT -6
Hermetech, someone raised you good. You're giving a disclosure even when the product is free to download No worries, there are free versions of most of their plugins but I get the paid "Gentleman's Editions" free, for being a beta tester. We are beta testing Nova 2.0 at the mo and it's seen a lot of changes in the "Smart Operations", which are taking a long time to iron out, but I think the end result will be that these kinds of automatic EQ curves will be very easy to use and powerful. I know the De-Res feature on Nova 1 has helped me out a lot with making my acoustic guitar tracks sit better in the mix. |
|
|
|
Post by theshea on Nov 1, 2018 8:44:19 GMT -6
tokyo eq is great! wihen recording my tele into the ac30 it can sound shrill sometimes, thats when tokyos de-resonate function comes in handy to notch out some nasty ringing tones. but most off the time i don't just take the suggested frequencies from the eq but i take them as starting points.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Nov 1, 2018 9:11:35 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
I've not seen any tutorials or heard anyone speak of this before if I recall, but I routinely use Waves Q10 or other high Q capable EQ to zoom in on these "ringing frequencies" to make electric guitar sounds more palatable. I hear them very very readily when I track and mix. They sort of drive me batty despite having fairly worn ears(at least the left one).
It seems very common. Though I am sure the higher the quality guitar/pickup/amp, the less you run into this. The "Soothe" plugin really seems like it would be perfect.
Basically most guitars almost sound like someone is whistling it is so loud and it really masks the tone of the guitar. Its usually around 1.8 to 2.2khz in there.
You can obviously go way overboard chasing every one of these down and subtracting too much. The harmonics are good, just not the "Ted Bundy's" or "Dahmers"
Anyhow. Just curious what you guys think.
So many folks jumping on the loads of plugins bandwagon.. Move the mic back a little bit. You can find a distance that will null some of those peaks if you move the mic around some. Put your amp's EQ flat and then adjust the mic, then add the amp's EQ back to dial it in. Also, lots of folks just cut around 4K and 2.2K on most guitars and call it good. You also didn't say what amp or speaker either. Some amps are much, much worse about this than others. VOX is the WORST for this especially if it has certain speakers. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 1, 2018 10:38:24 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
I've not seen any tutorials or heard anyone speak of this before if I recall, but I routinely use Waves Q10 or other high Q capable EQ to zoom in on these "ringing frequencies" to make electric guitar sounds more palatable. I hear them very very readily when I track and mix. They sort of drive me batty despite having fairly worn ears(at least the left one).
It seems very common. Though I am sure the higher the quality guitar/pickup/amp, the less you run into this. The "Soothe" plugin really seems like it would be perfect.
Basically most guitars almost sound like someone is whistling it is so loud and it really masks the tone of the guitar. Its usually around 1.8 to 2.2khz in there.
You can obviously go way overboard chasing every one of these down and subtracting too much. The harmonics are good, just not the "Ted Bundy's" or "Dahmers"
Anyhow. Just curious what you guys think.
What are you using for a mic and what sort of placement? |
|
|
|
Post by spindrift on Nov 1, 2018 10:43:37 GMT -6
I don't know what it claims but I love soothe Hermetech, someone raised you good. You're giving a disclosure even when the product is free to download Btw, here's what the engineer did to the vocals off some song, anyone heard of rolling in the deep? I'm curious as to the source of this information. Do you have any more details? Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Nov 1, 2018 11:18:14 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
I've not seen any tutorials or heard anyone speak of this before if I recall, but I routinely use Waves Q10 or other high Q capable EQ to zoom in on these "ringing frequencies" to make electric guitar sounds more palatable. I hear them very very readily when I track and mix. They sort of drive me batty despite having fairly worn ears(at least the left one).
It seems very common. Though I am sure the higher the quality guitar/pickup/amp, the less you run into this. The "Soothe" plugin really seems like it would be perfect.
Basically most guitars almost sound like someone is whistling it is so loud and it really masks the tone of the guitar. Its usually around 1.8 to 2.2khz in there.
You can obviously go way overboard chasing every one of these down and subtracting too much. The harmonics are good, just not the "Ted Bundy's" or "Dahmers"
Anyhow. Just curious what you guys think.
So many folks jumping on the loads of plugins bandwagon.. Move the mic back a little bit. You can find a distance that will null some of those peaks if you move the mic around some. Put your amp's EQ flat and then adjust the mic, then add the amp's EQ back to dial it in. Also, lots of folks just cut around 4K and 2.2K on most guitars and call it good. You also didn't say what amp or speaker either. Some amps are much, much worse about this than others. VOX is the WORST for this especially if it has certain speakers.  +1000 placement issues are a big one. Another is Pre-eq to drive stages and then pickups. My jazzmaster is bad for it. Pickup height can also effect it. Vox amps are bad for the 3k stuff too. Real bad. |
|
|
|
Post by svart on Nov 1, 2018 11:38:07 GMT -6
So many folks jumping on the loads of plugins bandwagon.. Move the mic back a little bit. You can find a distance that will null some of those peaks if you move the mic around some. Put your amp's EQ flat and then adjust the mic, then add the amp's EQ back to dial it in. Also, lots of folks just cut around 4K and 2.2K on most guitars and call it good. You also didn't say what amp or speaker either. Some amps are much, much worse about this than others. VOX is the WORST for this especially if it has certain speakers. +1000 placement issues are a big one. Another is Pre-eq to drive stages and then pickups. My jazzmaster is bad for it. Pickup height can also effect it. Vox amps are bad for the 3k stuff too. Real bad. My experience has been even tiny mic movements like 1/4" can have huge impacts on the peaks. It's amazing to listen to white noise through an amp while positioning a mic using headphones. You can hear the significant changes in the peaks this way just barely moving the mic. Find where the white noise sounds the smoothest and use the mic in that spot. And yeah, I've found that rolling the volume knob on a guitar back a bit and then using a boost pedal can really tame some of the twank sound you get from some pickups. Such a complex interaction from something so simple as a pickup and a pot! |
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Nov 1, 2018 13:06:46 GMT -6
Hermetech, someone raised you good. You're giving a disclosure even when the product is free to download We are beta testing Nova 2.0 at the mo I suggested to Fabien session-wide ability to change the quality, e.g. eco for mixing, high for export, can you say if that has made in? |
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Nov 1, 2018 13:09:25 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
Move the mic back a little bit. They're great for suggestions for tracking. . . . At least not everything I get to mix is tracked how I'd want it |
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Nov 1, 2018 13:11:01 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 13:19:46 GMT -6
The De-Resonate function in the Tokyo Dawn Labs EQs is great for this. Try out the demos, works great on guitar tracks. In full disclosure am a beta tester for them and get them free.
I like their stuff. I will check them out. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 13:20:19 GMT -6
I don't know what it claims but I love soothe Hermetech, someone raised you good. You're giving a disclosure even when the product is free to download Btw, here's what the engineer did to the vocals off some song, anyone heard of rolling in the deep? Yes indeed. This was an SOS article I think, and it was Tom Elmhurst, right? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 13:21:58 GMT -6
We are beta testing Nova 2.0 at the mo I suggested to Fabien session-wide ability to change the quality, e.g. eco for mixing, high for export, can you say if that has made in? Yes, there's a "Set quality for all instances" setting now. |
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 13:27:58 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
I've not seen any tutorials or heard anyone speak of this before if I recall, but I routinely use Waves Q10 or other high Q capable EQ to zoom in on these "ringing frequencies" to make electric guitar sounds more palatable. I hear them very very readily when I track and mix. They sort of drive me batty despite having fairly worn ears(at least the left one).
It seems very common. Though I am sure the higher the quality guitar/pickup/amp, the less you run into this. The "Soothe" plugin really seems like it would be perfect.
Basically most guitars almost sound like someone is whistling it is so loud and it really masks the tone of the guitar. Its usually around 1.8 to 2.2khz in there.
You can obviously go way overboard chasing every one of these down and subtracting too much. The harmonics are good, just not the "Ted Bundy's" or "Dahmers"
Anyhow. Just curious what you guys think.
So many folks jumping on the loads of plugins bandwagon.. Move the mic back a little bit. You can find a distance that will null some of those peaks if you move the mic around some. Put your amp's EQ flat and then adjust the mic, then add the amp's EQ back to dial it in. Also, lots of folks just cut around 4K and 2.2K on most guitars and call it good. You also didn't say what amp or speaker either. Some amps are much, much worse about this than others. VOX is the WORST for this especially if it has certain speakers. "So many folks jumping on the loads of plugins bandwagon.."
That's because I directed the conversation that way. And no one is talking about "loads of plugins". In fact just one specific use therefore a very small number of plugs. Only a couple have been mentioned. Tools are not evil. You also assume that I mean that I am tracking every single guitar I am mixing. I am not. This applies to when I receive tracks from other sources and just have to deal with. I have to use a tool at that point.
I didn't say which amp or speaker because it happens on various amps and speakers, and guitars etc. It's not a singular setup I am speaking of.
I have indeed tried placement moves and with only a little success. This also involves my level of pickyness about how much of that harmonic can be left in the signal. If I move the mic until I get that peak to null, I could very well have lost everything else I like about the tone as well. Perhaps there is bleed to contend with and the goal is a very dry signal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 13:30:46 GMT -6
Subsequent taming thereof.
I've not seen any tutorials or heard anyone speak of this before if I recall, but I routinely use Waves Q10 or other high Q capable EQ to zoom in on these "ringing frequencies" to make electric guitar sounds more palatable. I hear them very very readily when I track and mix. They sort of drive me batty despite having fairly worn ears(at least the left one).
It seems very common. Though I am sure the higher the quality guitar/pickup/amp, the less you run into this. The "Soothe" plugin really seems like it would be perfect.
Basically most guitars almost sound like someone is whistling it is so loud and it really masks the tone of the guitar. Its usually around 1.8 to 2.2khz in there.
You can obviously go way overboard chasing every one of these down and subtracting too much. The harmonics are good, just not the "Ted Bundy's" or "Dahmers"
Anyhow. Just curious what you guys think.
What are you using for a mic and what sort of placement? Mics used = ADK Z67, AEA R84, Groove Tubes Velo 8, Neumann TLM 170, Crimson orange SM57, Coles 4038
Placement all depends on the song and goal aesthetic. Sometimes the 57 on axis half way between the dust cap and edge of speaker 6 inches back, sometimes on the grill off axis, sometimes a ribbon a foot or two back. Various ways.
Again, this only pertains to when I am tracking. Not when I receive tracks to mix.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 13:31:48 GMT -6
So many folks jumping on the loads of plugins bandwagon.. Move the mic back a little bit. You can find a distance that will null some of those peaks if you move the mic around some. Put your amp's EQ flat and then adjust the mic, then add the amp's EQ back to dial it in. Also, lots of folks just cut around 4K and 2.2K on most guitars and call it good. You also didn't say what amp or speaker either. Some amps are much, much worse about this than others. VOX is the WORST for this especially if it has certain speakers. +1000 placement issues are a big one. Another is Pre-eq to drive stages and then pickups. My jazzmaster is bad for it. Pickup height can also effect it. Vox amps are bad for the 3k stuff too. Real bad. My Jazzmaster is the WORST guitar here for that. |
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 13:34:27 GMT -6
+1000 placement issues are a big one. Another is Pre-eq to drive stages and then pickups. My jazzmaster is bad for it. Pickup height can also effect it. Vox amps are bad for the 3k stuff too. Real bad. My experience has been even tiny mic movements like 1/4" can have huge impacts on the peaks. It's amazing to listen to white noise through an amp while positioning a mic using headphones. You can hear the significant changes in the peaks this way just barely moving the mic. Find where the white noise sounds the smoothest and use the mic in that spot. And yeah, I've found that rolling the volume knob on a guitar back a bit and then using a boost pedal can really tame some of the twank sound you get from some pickups. Such a complex interaction from something so simple as a pickup and a pot! OK so I have heard of the white noise technique. So you are saying to listen and move the mic and find when those areas are calmed down. I will try that, thanks.
Will there be multiple places where the mic can null, or most likely just one? Because I am concerned that if I chase the null, I will also end up with a sound that may not be isolated enough, or the rest of the tonal signature isn't what I desire. It's a trade off and all that, I understand. Has it been your experience that you can get the general tone you want as well as null the nasties?
|
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Nov 1, 2018 13:40:10 GMT -6
I'd rather fix it in tracking _if_ I could. The plugins are like a bandaid solution but it works. Over here we have a saying, "the ambulance is at the bottom of the cliff". The tracking suggestions by svart and jazznoise are great. Also great if you can get someone to move the mic/make changes while you listen. Have you seen there are now robots for that!
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Nov 1, 2018 14:13:41 GMT -6
Move the mic back a little bit. They're great for suggestions for tracking. . . . At least not everything I get to mix is tracked how I'd want it Maybe not, but the OP mentioned "tracking and mixing", so I was mostly replying to them. |
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 1, 2018 14:17:38 GMT -6
I'd rather fix it in tracking _if_ I could. The plugins are like a bandaid solution but it works. Over here we have a saying, "the ambulance is at the bottom of the cliff". The tracking suggestions by svart and jazznoise are great. Also great if you can get someone to move the mic/make changes while you listen. Have you seen there are now robots for that! Of course. That is 100% the truth. Fix it in the mix is the worst concept to happen to recording.
I agree 1000%. Their suggestions are just great. Ones that I have attempted, no doubt.
However, I also live in a practical world. I don't have a studio with a big budget on projects, so usually I do not have the time to move a mic around, have someone play, move it again, listen, etc etc. It's just the reality of it. I don't have an assistant almost ever, nor a robot (I saw Eric Valentines which is great).
When it comes time to mix, unless the sound is really bad off(like something someone sends me via dropbox) I can fix a peak in 10 seconds. I hear it and can find it easily.
While moving the mic and finding the best spot *may* get me the better result, I certainly cannot do it to my satisfaction in regards to these peaks(it's probably a source thing as much as a mic placement thing) within the same amount of time I can just pull it down in Q10. I've spent probably hour changing mics, positioning them etc etc, with limited success. Yes I can get the overall tone and sound I like, if not for a peak or two. Chasing those down with a mic seems to be a compromise to a degree, takes time and never mitigates the ringing to my satisfaction.
As long as there is only one or two of these buggers, q10 works quickly.
As the SOS article shows, even some of this was necessary on Adele's vocal. And she wanted for nothing when it came to engineer, room and equipment I am sure. Sometimes you just have to deal with these things.
I am a little concerned at times about the push back of "get it right in tracking". It's great because it combats the lazy "ah I'll fix it later" attitude. However, the former mantra itself can be a bit dogmatic. We do the best we can but most of us don't live in a utopian recording environment. We have to allow for the exceptions to that rule as long as we have done our due diligence in our imperfect situations.
Now, I am not rejecting anyones statements. I will try their suggestions again with fresh perspective. However please note that when I asked the question I posed in this thread, I did it with prior attempts and knowledge in the tracking realm, as well as the fact that I am also speaking of times where I have nothing to do with the tracking stage.
|
|
