ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,019
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 10:01:00 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Sept 12, 2018 10:01:00 GMT -6
How does it bring in low end? It’s basically just an EQ on the master bus, right? Over simplified but yeah an EQ with some phase correction.
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 10:49:38 GMT -6
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jtc111 likes this
Post by indiehouse on Sept 12, 2018 10:49:38 GMT -6
Phase and time domain. It’s really sophisticated stuff, or so I’m told.
Now I’m like “how can I possibly go back to my setup without it?”
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Post by joseph on Sept 12, 2018 14:16:34 GMT -6
I'm not in a position to judge this technology, which may increase professional efficiency and consistency, but I do worry sometimes that the general mindset encourages perfect mixing, rather than the product and personality of an individual studio and flawed space.
To give a couple examples - Wings' Let Me Roll It, the guitar is too loud and there is a ground hum (in the vocal echo I think). Not sure if the guitar level is intentional. PJ Harvey's Working for the Man - The vocals and top are quite dull and the bass very heavy and blown out. Sounds intentional.
Both mixes would sound less interesting if you fixed these problems. Or the whole record of the Amps' Pacer.
The flip side of this is the standard intentionally fucked up neo-soul heavy bass, smashed drums, mono sound, parallel everything which sounds canned and boring as hell these days.
Other examples are the Kempe's Strauss recordings, the strings as recorded are slightly too edgey and the brass ensemble work a little fiery and uncontrolled by today's standards. But it makes the Dresden orchestra sound more alive.
Or Deutsche Grammophon's 70s piano records have a glassy unnatural quality people often criticize, but I think this is more articulate than the reverberant recording style popular with some labels today where you hear the piano from too many perspectives at once on account of the engineer going crazy with the mic mixes.
Anyway, just reflecting a bit, sorry!
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Post by christopher on Sept 12, 2018 16:29:18 GMT -6
I have an appreciation for that kind of stuff as an art form as well. Its amazing to me, and honestly all those examples have incredible tone that make me feel like I'm on some good drugs (I don't do drugs) But I feel so conflicted at the same time. My young kids think I'm crazy and absolutely hate it when I listen to good classic tone, or appreciate music in general. I hope when they are in their late teens it will dawn on them what really good, artistically brave, spare-no-expense, recorded music sounds like. The current music scene is drum samples, synths, autotune, editing perfection, lots of wide everything. I'm trying to get an ear for that because its the only thing my kids respond to. And its instant for them: they either hear the modern sound, or they shout immediately that it sucks. I figure the general population it must be similar, but I don't know. Anyway... I'm not sure what my point was anymore. I guess, to play along anymore we have to do whatever the young people want? edit: Or not lol.. I guess its just whatever, but if we do want to make the kids happy, this tool could be handy
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 12, 2018 16:53:37 GMT -6
Yeah everything in pop and country has to be so perfect. Have you ever had a worktape that was better than any time it was tracked? Hard to capture that sometimes.
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Post by joseph on Sept 12, 2018 18:29:26 GMT -6
One of my favorite quotes about music:
"For me, security and beauty and not compatible. When you seek beauty, you have to forget security, and you have to go to the rim of catastrophe. There you find the beauty. If a musician makes a mistake, a crack, because he risks everything to get the most beautiful thing and he fails, then I thank him for this failure because it is only with this risk you can get the beauty, the real beauty. The real beauty is not available at all. If you seek security, you should make another profession."
-Nikolaus Harnoncourt
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Post by the other mark williams on Sept 12, 2018 22:10:42 GMT -6
One of my favorite quotes about music: "For me, security and beauty and not compatible. When you seek beauty, you have to forget security, and you have to go to the rim of catastrophe. There you find the beauty. If a musician makes a mistake, a crack, because he risks everything to get the most beautiful thing and he fails, then I thank him for this failure because it is only with this risk you can get the beauty, the real beauty. The real beauty is not available at all. If you seek security, you should make another profession." -Nikolaus Harnoncourt Wow, that's beautiful.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,019
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Post by ericn on Sept 13, 2018 7:52:24 GMT -6
Yeah everything in pop and country has to be so perfect. Have you ever had a worktape that was better than any time it was tracked? Hard to capture that sometimes. We no longer capture a performance, we now manufacturer a performance.
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Post by iamasound on Sept 15, 2018 2:06:45 GMT -6
A wise man once said, "We no longer capture a performance, we now manufacturer a performance".
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,019
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Post by ericn on Sept 15, 2018 10:12:28 GMT -6
A wise man once said, "We no longer capture a performance, we now manufacturer a performance". I thought I was just a wise ass😁
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Trinnov
Sept 15, 2018 13:29:16 GMT -6
Post by jtc111 on Sept 15, 2018 13:29:16 GMT -6
We no longer capture a performance, we now manufacturer a performance. Is that because it's a much more competitive business now where every Tom, Dick, and wise ass has a home studio capable of putting out some good stuff?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,019
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Post by ericn on Sept 15, 2018 14:00:28 GMT -6
We no longer capture a performance, we now manufacturer a performance. Is that because it's a much more competitive business now where every Tom, Dick, and wise ass has a home studio capable of putting out some good stuff? No it’s about the fact we can fix it all to easily, nobody has to know how to perform anymore or either try to get it right or realize this song isn’t going to work. Yes I have edited tape till it was almost to stiff to to roll on reels because of the editing tape on top of editing tape on top of editing tape on top of... tuned some notes on an eventide. But there was always this point where you could look the performers in the eye and just say “ no I need you to get it right “ or there was pride in the idea that Somebody would keep trying till they nailed it . The idea that some mistakes were what made it real and the sound and emotion trumped the technical. Now we edit and pitch shift so everybody sounds like they have talent will never be able to sing it live. We make the performance we put it together like an IKEA bookcase.
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Post by jtc111 on Sept 15, 2018 14:57:03 GMT -6
Damn Auto-Tune!!!
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Trinnov
Sept 16, 2018 1:06:59 GMT -6
Post by iamasound on Sept 16, 2018 1:06:59 GMT -6
A wise man once said, "We no longer capture a performance, we now manufacturer a performance". I thought I was just a wise ass😁 That too, and like a fine wine, I guess that it is rather complicated.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 16, 2018 6:04:05 GMT -6
So, I sent the Trinnov on yesterday. Reluctantly. For a few reasons. #1- it cost me $4k! That’s more than I paid for my One15’s and Parasound A21. I could (and should) pay off my car with that money. #2 - I should deal with my room first. Physical correction before digital correction. I mean, I have some DIY treatment up, but I should do more. I bought a ton of GIK stuff that I bought second hand a couple months ago, but I haven’t installed any of it yet. I’m assuming if I took the time and effort I do that, I’d see some solid improvement. It’s just sooo much easier to use a Trinnov. But I got a great deal on that GIK stuff second hand, so it’d be cheaper to do that instead of the Trinnov. #3 - investing that much money in computer tech makes me nervous. I suppose if the Trinnov was making me money, it’d pay for itself, but I’m not a big shot producer/engineer...yet. That said, I’m bumming hard that it’s gone. Depressed really. How am I going to go back knowing what I know now about just how screwed up my monitoring is? It’s like I’ve been listening crooked this whole time, and the Trinnov straightened out my head. My god, the low end alone! It’s almost non-existent compared to the Trinnov. Bumming hard. I do want another in the future, once I get my acoustics dialed in. I better start saving now.
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Trinnov
Sept 16, 2018 10:57:22 GMT -6
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Post by stormymondays on Sept 16, 2018 10:57:22 GMT -6
You can always get Sonarworks. It worked wonders on my (pro designed and treated) room.
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Trinnov
Sept 16, 2018 11:54:19 GMT -6
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ericn likes this
Post by indiehouse on Sept 16, 2018 11:54:19 GMT -6
You can always get Sonarworks. It worked wonders on my (pro designed and treated) room. I’ll check it out, thanks! You know what would be cool? If Trinnov released a “lite” version, maybe a box without converters, AES only. None of the fancy bells or whistles, metering, etc. Just plain old DRC, using a DAC of my choosing.
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