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Post by drbill on Aug 9, 2018 19:14:34 GMT -6
Watched the VK video. Pretty insane. EQ, phase, speaker placement, time alignment, etc. all dialed. I'm wondering if it would replace my Grace m905. Obviously it does things the Grace doesn't. more investigation necessary. Thanks for the heads up. Apparently there is a USB volume controller you can hook up to this. With a product this expensive, I hope there's something better than a "USB volume controller". I saw their LCD panel. Haven't investigated that much but that could be cool, or, possibly, integrating it with the Grace m905. I like a hardware controller not a touch screen. Maybe AES into the Trinnov, AES out of the Trinnov into the Grace, Analog out the grace to the speakers?? Pricey, way over the top, but incredibly cool. Oy! It's only money, right.
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Post by drbill on Aug 9, 2018 19:16:53 GMT -6
I think I'll ping Hedback and ask his take on it. It's pricey, but I'd use it a WHOLE lot more than a U67 reissue, or a 251. Much more useful and valuable to me on a daily basis. Problem is,,,,,,we all know how digital widgets fare longterm - plummeting boat anchors.....
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Trinnov
Aug 9, 2018 19:45:47 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2018 19:45:47 GMT -6
I think I'll ping Hedback and ask his take on it. It's pricey, but I'd use it a WHOLE lot more than a U67 reissue, or a 251. Much more useful and valuable to me on a daily basis. Problem is,,,,,,we all know how digital widgets fare longterm - plummeting boat anchors..... True, but like the Bricasti, these seem to hold at least some value.
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Trinnov
Aug 9, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2018 19:46:26 GMT -6
And let me know what Hedback says.
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Trinnov
Aug 9, 2018 20:48:09 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2018 20:48:09 GMT -6
I think I'll ping Hedback and ask his take on it. It's pricey, but I'd use it a WHOLE lot more than a U67 reissue, or a 251. Much more useful and valuable to me on a daily basis. Problem is,,,,,,we all know how digital widgets fare longterm - plummeting boat anchors..... Love to hear Hedbacks take...and lots of truth in your post.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 10, 2018 7:50:23 GMT -6
I haven’t played with the Trinnov, but I have played with many other systems like it over the years and they can be of great or little help depending on the room and the speakers. Great room with a great speaker set more often than not subtle difference, good room cheap speakers most improvemen. Bad room, fix the room. With transducers, mics and speakers often part of the magic is what they do wrong and clearing up these problems makes a system sound less than stellar, often a compromise is made during tuning or design in favor of top to bottom consistentcecy rather than technical perfection so keep that in mind. The most common objection over these boxes is the conversion, you better love it because everything you hear is going to go through it! Also when setting up it’s always nice to have a second anyliser software package to confirm the choices. As for mics, I have always preferred systems that let me adjust the calibration of the measurement mic if I have documentation on my specific calibrated mic. Also not very effective with bi or do poles.
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Post by allbuttonmode on Aug 10, 2018 8:32:55 GMT -6
The most common objection over these boxes is the conversion, you better love it because everything you hear is going to go through it! The converters in the Trinnov can be bypassed, if wanted.
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Trinnov
Aug 10, 2018 10:45:57 GMT -6
Post by drbill on Aug 10, 2018 10:45:57 GMT -6
I think I'll ping Hedback and ask his take on it. It's pricey, but I'd use it a WHOLE lot more than a U67 reissue, or a 251. Much more useful and valuable to me on a daily basis. Problem is,,,,,,we all know how digital widgets fare longterm - plummeting boat anchors..... True, but like the Bricasti, these seem to hold at least some value. I hope so... Especially if I bite.... But it will take a decade to know for sure. This is the type of thing that can get blown out of the water as tech and computer power advances. For all we know, we might be doing the same things on an iPhone app in 10 years. I'm still quite interested though. Because I have to mix today, not wait 10 years.
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Trinnov
Aug 10, 2018 10:48:24 GMT -6
Post by drbill on Aug 10, 2018 10:48:24 GMT -6
I haven’t played with the Trinnov, but I have played with many other systems like it over the years and they can be of great or little help depending on the room and the speakers. Great room with a great speaker set more often than not subtle difference, good room cheap speakers most improvemen. Bad room, fix the room. With transducers, mics and speakers often part of the magic is what they do wrong and clearing up these problems makes a system sound less than stellar, often a compromise is made during tuning or design in favor of top to bottom consistentcecy rather than technical perfection so keep that in mind. The most common objection over these boxes is the conversion, you better love it because everything you hear is going to go through it! Also when setting up it’s always nice to have a second anyliser software package to confirm the choices. As for mics, I have always preferred systems that let me adjust the calibration of the measurement mic if I have documentation on my specific calibrated mic. Also not very effective with bi or do poles. Some good points Eric! There were a couple of "salesmen-y" type comments like "so you can use this to fix your room" kind of things in the video which just seemed....eh...salesman-y. My only other experience of this sort was with a DBX drive rack (I think that's what it's called), and it was not positive. Ended up immediately pulling it.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Trinnov
Aug 10, 2018 11:09:06 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Aug 10, 2018 11:09:06 GMT -6
I haven’t played with the Trinnov, but I have played with many other systems like it over the years and they can be of great or little help depending on the room and the speakers. Great room with a great speaker set more often than not subtle difference, good room cheap speakers most improvemen. Bad room, fix the room. With transducers, mics and speakers often part of the magic is what they do wrong and clearing up these problems makes a system sound less than stellar, often a compromise is made during tuning or design in favor of top to bottom consistentcecy rather than technical perfection so keep that in mind. The most common objection over these boxes is the conversion, you better love it because everything you hear is going to go through it! Also when setting up it’s always nice to have a second anyliser software package to confirm the choices. As for mics, I have always preferred systems that let me adjust the calibration of the measurement mic if I have documentation on my specific calibrated mic. Also not very effective with bi or do poles. Some good points Eric! There were a couple of "salesmen-y" type comments like "so you can use this to fix your room" kind of things in the video which just seemed....eh...salesman-y. My only other experience of this sort was with a DBX drive rack (I think that's what it's called), and it was not positive. Ended up immediately pulling it. The DSP in these is much deeper than a Driverack type box, frankly the DBX is my least favorite of this type of box the Dolby/ Clair/ Lake and XTA are the best of the bunch on the affordable end the best is the Ashly. I don’t know why Harmon DC’ed the BSS and chose the DBX as their touring standard, frankly the DBX 24 bit higher sample rate box was always sonically below the 20 bit 48K BSS Omnidrive !
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ericn
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Trinnov
Aug 10, 2018 11:10:06 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Aug 10, 2018 11:10:06 GMT -6
The most common objection over these boxes is the conversion, you better love it because everything you hear is going to go through it! The converters in the Trinnov can be bypassed, if wanted. Being able to use ones own choice of converters is an expensive must !
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Post by drbill on Aug 26, 2018 19:17:43 GMT -6
I think I'll ping Hedback and ask his take on it. It's pricey, but I'd use it a WHOLE lot more than a U67 reissue, or a 251. Much more useful and valuable to me on a daily basis. Problem is,,,,,,we all know how digital widgets fare longterm - plummeting boat anchors..... Love to hear Hedbacks take...and lots of truth in your post. John - we didn't discuss in detail, at length, but my take is that he prefers to do things with normal sweeps, calibrations, moving the sub, etc.. Get the room in the zone, and then tweak. He said the Trinnov is good, but he's concerned about the latency and it's "desire" to pull your listening curve into a "perfect" monitoring scenario without a particular "user friendly" curve that might be better than a "prefect curve" for mixing purposes. Kinda vague, I know, but I'm always holding on by the skin of my teeth when jeff starts talking tech....
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ericn
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Trinnov
Aug 26, 2018 20:30:24 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2018 20:30:24 GMT -6
Love to hear Hedbacks take...and lots of truth in your post. John - we didn't discuss in detail, at length, but my take is that he prefers to do things with normal sweeps, calibrations, moving the sub, etc.. Get the room in the zone, and then tweak. He said the Trinnov is good, but he's concerned about the latency and it's "desire" to pull your listening curve into a "perfect" monitoring scenario without a particular "user friendly" curve that might be better than a "prefect curve" for mixing purposes. Kinda vague, I know, but I'm always holding on by the skin of my teeth when jeff starts talking tech.... Might be a nice polite version of what the last room guy I asked about a similar device “ if the rooms the problem fix the room, if the speakers the problem change the speaker!”
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 11, 2018 13:43:34 GMT -6
Well, curiosity won the day, and I brought in a Trinnov to check out. All I can say is wow. Just wow. I never knew how much speaker I was missing, or the full reach of the Amphion One15's. Damn it, man. This was not subtle in the least.
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ericn
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Trinnov
Sept 11, 2018 14:38:02 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2018 14:38:02 GMT -6
Well, curiosity won the day, and I brought in a Trinnov to check out. All I can say is wow. Just wow. I never knew how much speaker I was missing, or the full reach of the Amphion One15's. Damn it, man. This was not subtle in the least. Need to try it with the ATC20’s!, I’m not sold though the last DSP box here just sucked the life out of everything and in some cases seamed like everything got smaller.
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Trinnov
Sept 11, 2018 14:45:00 GMT -6
Post by indiehouse on Sept 11, 2018 14:45:00 GMT -6
Well, curiosity won the day, and I brought in a Trinnov to check out. All I can say is wow. Just wow. I never knew how much speaker I was missing, or the full reach of the Amphion One15's. Damn it, man. This was not subtle in the least. Need to try it with the ATC20’s!, I’m not sold though the last DSP box here just sucked the life out of everything and in some cases seamed like everything got smaller. I tried Dirac a while back. Did not get along with that at all. But this box is on another level. Damn expensive, though.
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Trinnov
Sept 11, 2018 22:40:48 GMT -6
Post by Blackdawg on Sept 11, 2018 22:40:48 GMT -6
Their fuckin website is Shit, holy jesus.
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 0:26:31 GMT -6
Post by Johnkenn on Sept 12, 2018 0:26:31 GMT -6
Well, curiosity won the day, and I brought in a Trinnov to check out. All I can say is wow. Just wow. I never knew how much speaker I was missing, or the full reach of the Amphion One15's. Damn it, man. This was not subtle in the least. You, Sir, suck.
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 3:42:43 GMT -6
Post by allbuttonmode on Sept 12, 2018 3:42:43 GMT -6
Well, curiosity won the day, and I brought in a Trinnov to check out. All I can say is wow. Just wow. I never knew how much speaker I was missing, or the full reach of the Amphion One15's. Damn it, man. This was not subtle in the least. Yes, this was my reaction as well, when we got one to test in our room. We are talking night and day. And our room is not great. At all. It has som deep flaws that we are about to address. But, even with the shortcomings of our room, the Trinnov calibration was pure magic.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 12, 2018 8:20:09 GMT -6
The thing about this that has me nervous, is the high price for what is essentially a computer. And let me underscore that part, it's literally a computer with XLR/AES inputs and a pair of AD/DA converters. I think we are all well aware of how well computer hardware holds value...it doesn't. Technology marches on very quickly. I think the converters in this box (while I'm sure are good), have probably been surpassed even by the Motu stuff, just judging by specs alone (I know, I know). It has PS/2 ports for keyboards and mice (I didn't know manufacturers still used those). I googled the processor chip, and it wasn't anything spectacular. So I guess it's really about the software then, right? I get why they decided to make it it's own box. Then they don't have to deal with compatibility and constantly changing OS's and OS updates. It just works. Still, it's a $5K system once you account for the 3D mic. And the meat of that is...software. On a computer. But then again, Trinnov has been around now, what 10 years or more? I suppose the same could be said for Bricasti.
When you factor in the costs of your monitoring system together with the Trinnov, you're talking about a lot of cheddar. Say you went with a pair of ATC SCM20ASL MKII's and their Sub12. That's $7800. Add $5K for the Trinnov, and your at $12800. That's pretty much what a new pair of Dutch and Dutch 8C's cost, which have room integration DSP built in. And that's kinda where I see the technology going, being integrated and built into the speakers themselves.
But all that said, the Trinnov does work, and it's crazy how much low end it brought into my One15's. I had always chalked it up to the One15's just being bass light.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 8:27:36 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Sept 12, 2018 8:27:36 GMT -6
The thing about this that has me nervous, is the high price for what is essentially a computer. And let me underscore that part, it's literally a computer with XLR/AES inputs and a pair of AD/DA converters. I think we are all well aware of how well computer hardware holds value...it doesn't. Technology marches on very quickly. I think the converters in this box (while I'm sure are good), have probably been surpassed even by the Motu stuff, just judging by specs alone (I know, I know). It has PS/2 ports for keyboards and mice (I didn't know manufacturers still used those). I googled the processor chip, and it wasn't anything spectacular. So I guess it's really about the software then, right? I get why they decided to make it it's own box. Then they don't have to deal with compatibility and constantly changing OS's and OS updates. It just works. Still, it's a $5K system once you account for the 3D mic. And the meat of that is...software. On a computer. But then again, Trinnov has been around now, what 10 years or more? I suppose the same could be said for Bricasti. When you factor in the costs of your monitoring system together with the Trinnov, you're talking about a lot of cheddar. Say you went with a pair of ATC SCM20ASL MKII's and their Sub12. That's $7800. Add $5K for the Trinnov, and your at $12800. That's pretty much what a new pair of Dutch and Dutch 8C's cost, which have room integration DSP built in. And that's kinda where I see the technology going, being integrated and built into the speakers themselves. But all that said, the Trinnov does work, and it's crazy how much low end it brought into my One15's. I had always chalked it up to the One15's just being bass light. I agree, but let me add this with the large number of active monitors that use OEM digital plate amps with DSP at all price points why aren’t the speaker manufacturers demanding that this type of software isn’t part of the package?
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 8:48:58 GMT -6
Post by indiehouse on Sept 12, 2018 8:48:58 GMT -6
Love to hear Hedbacks take...and lots of truth in your post. John - we didn't discuss in detail, at length, but my take is that he prefers to do things with normal sweeps, calibrations, moving the sub, etc.. Get the room in the zone, and then tweak. He said the Trinnov is good, but he's concerned about the latency and it's "desire" to pull your listening curve into a "perfect" monitoring scenario without a particular "user friendly" curve that might be better than a "prefect curve" for mixing purposes. Kinda vague, I know, but I'm always holding on by the skin of my teeth when jeff starts talking tech.... Speaking of curves, you can adjust and set whatever curves you want. I hear people talk about using the Bob Katz curve with this, though not sure what that means. I think even Trinnov suggests not using a flat curve, but rather a bit of low end / high end rise.
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 9:16:46 GMT -6
Post by jin167 on Sept 12, 2018 9:16:46 GMT -6
www.audiovero.de/en/acourate.phpI have heard that this does essentially everything Trinnov does and some more. The only downside is that it's a PITA to use and inherent latency.
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 9:43:04 GMT -6
Post by Blackdawg on Sept 12, 2018 9:43:04 GMT -6
I wonder how it compares to Genelecs DSP that all their digintal Monitors come with...for free. Can get a pair of 8040s and a sub for not that much.
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Trinnov
Sept 12, 2018 9:48:02 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 12, 2018 9:48:02 GMT -6
How does it bring in low end? It’s basically just an EQ on the master bus, right?
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