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Post by Ward on Jun 11, 2018 13:49:15 GMT -6
Usually a Focusrite Red 2.
These days its ƒ2 and/or one of pultec clones.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 11, 2018 14:27:56 GMT -6
Altec passives are coil designs. They also rely on the recovery amplifier's THD, noise, slew rate, IMD, phase shift etc, which can vary the results considerably. In the dynamic domain, coils ring and can saturate. That is another form of distortion but if added to every track I suppose it can "glue" everything together by slowing/ringing everything in tandem. Sort of like that main group of riders in a cross country bike race. Most of our fav and best engineered recordings did not use a final buss EQ during mixdown. The technology they used worked just fine without needing a passive Altec EQ strapped across the mix buss. Equalizing the mix buss while mixing is akin to pushing down ping-pong balls with your thumb while they float on water. If your mix needs a final stereo EQ, leave that to the mastering guy or risk messing it all up for him first. Jim, have you ever taken a look inside the Altec 7-band? Which is the same design as the Langevin 7-band, not to be confused with the abysmal Acousta-Voicette 1/3 octave? The coils are MASSIVE. Huge toroidal air core inductors. You could kill somebody with one of those coils. The odds of saturating one of them with a line level signal is nil. Gold plated circuit boards, contol is by a massive linear switch with gold plated contacts. Each band is a separate EQ module, plugged into a common back plane. These EQs are quite rare and command a good price when they come available - I was fortunate to be able to acquire these far below market price from a friend who is an engineer at UC Berkeley's Zellerbach Auditorium and Greek Theater. The units were sold off when the university replaced the Zellerbach system with a John Meyers Constellation system. I scored my Spectra-Sonics 610 compressor via the same route.
I agree that using a quality preamp for makeup gain is crucial, which is why I'm using the Carl Johnson designed A-Designs KGB-2 instrument preamp based on Carl's discrete opamps developed for the big Quad-Eight consoles.
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2 Bus EQ
Jun 11, 2018 14:34:12 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 11, 2018 14:34:12 GMT -6
Altec passives are coil designs. They also rely on the recovery amplifier's THD, noise, slew rate, IMD, phase shift etc, which can vary the results considerably. In the dynamic domain, coils ring and can saturate. That is another form of distortion but if added to every track I suppose it can "glue" everything together by slowing/ringing everything in tandem. Sort of like that main group of riders in a cross country bike race. Most of our fav and best engineered recordings did not use a final buss EQ during mixdown. The technology they used worked just fine without needing a passive Altec EQ strapped across the mix buss. Equalizing the mix buss while mixing is akin to pushing down ping-pong balls with your thumb while they float on water. If your mix needs a final stereo EQ, leave that to the mastering guy or risk messing it all up for him first. Jim, have you ever taken a look inside the Altec 7-band? Which is the same design as the Langevin 7-band, not to be confused with the abysmal Acousta-Voicette 1/3 octave? The coils are MASSIVE. Huge toroidal air core inductors. You could kill somebody with one of those coils. The odds of saturating one of them with a line level signal is nil. Gold plated circuit boards, contol is by a massive linear switch with gold plated contacts. Each band is a separate EQ module, plugged into a common back plane. These EQs are quite rare and command a good price when they come available - I was fortunate to be able to acquire these far below market price from a friend who is an engineer at UC Berkeley's Zellerbach Auditorium and Greek Theater. The units were sold off when the university replaced the Zellerbach system with a John Meyers Constellation system. I scored my Spectra-Sonics 610 compressor via the same route.
I agree that using a quality preamp for makeup gain is crucial, which is why I'm using the Carl Johnson designed A-Designs KGB-2 instrument preamp based on Carl's discrete opamps developed for the big Quad-Eight consoles.
A friend of mine had a pair of the Langevin 7 band eq’s. They were awesome.
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Post by matt on Jun 11, 2018 14:35:06 GMT -6
No 2-bus EQ for me while mixing. During self-mastering I pass at 20 and 16K, 6 db per, using Ozone's EQ. I have a pair of A-Designs EM-PEQs but stopped using them a while back. They sound great, but for me some hardware -like EQs- need to be full-rack so that settings can be fine-adjusted and at least visually matched. I calibrated/matched them using test tones after getting rough settings on mixes but it just seemed like an unnecessary/extra step that was no longer worth taking. So off they went.
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2 Bus EQ
Jun 11, 2018 15:54:56 GMT -6
via mobile
proxy likes this
Post by stormymondays on Jun 11, 2018 15:54:56 GMT -6
Usually not but I did strap a Retro 2A3 on the buss for an acoustic project and it practically mixed itself! I now have a pair of EM-PEQ so I’m thinking of adding either the Retro or these to the 2-buss. Right now the Retro is used for kick and snare, and the EM-PEQ on overheads but I’m still testing them.
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Post by viciousbliss on Jun 11, 2018 15:59:22 GMT -6
Mainly Azure, the Acustica Knif Soma emulation. I like what the pre-amp does and Azure is pretty precise in that when I boost at something like 3.3 or 10k, it helps the vocals standout without really messing with my mix balance. My other recent choice is to use tiny amounts from the Summit Grand Channel. Both of these are passive tube eqs, I think. Museq and Dangerous Bax both have one preset each that I have used in the past.
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Post by drbill on Jun 11, 2018 17:50:27 GMT -6
Not really Jim. It's the colour that the EQ itself brings to the mix, more than "fixing offending frequencies on specific instruments". I'd be willing to wager a pretty hefty amount that all mixers that use 2Buss EQ also use individual channel EQ as you mentioned. If you're trying to chase down a problem in the bass, then sure, address it on the bass / bass heavy tracks - not the 2Buss EQ, but for the sheen and size, a Buss EQ in the right hands works exponentially better than EQing every track.
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Post by Quint on Jun 11, 2018 18:11:00 GMT -6
Altec passives are coil designs. They also rely on the recovery amplifier's THD, noise, slew rate, IMD, phase shift etc, which can vary the results considerably. In the dynamic domain, coils ring and can saturate. That is another form of distortion but if added to every track I suppose it can "glue" everything together by slowing/ringing everything in tandem. Sort of like that main group of riders in a cross country bike race. Most of our fav and best engineered recordings did not use a final buss EQ during mixdown. The technology they used worked just fine without needing a passive Altec EQ strapped across the mix buss. Equalizing the mix buss while mixing is akin to pushing down ping-pong balls with your thumb while they float on water. If your mix needs a final stereo EQ, leave that to the mastering guy or risk messing it all up for him first. I'd say it's more akin to raising and lowering the water level in the pool so that all the ping pong balls move up and down together. 2bus eq is a different sound and effect than eqing individual channels.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 11, 2018 18:15:57 GMT -6
DIYRE EQP5. Adds some nice stuff to it. I have the vintage mod on it. I use these as well.... On every mix I do. Mine have some of Jeff's 2503's and using the SL1731's right now. I go back and forth between the SL1731's and the LTL Rogues. I also set my Q to basically wide open, so when I use my EQ's it's extremely broad for both the boost and cut. I did this because I always noticed when I listened to a mix in the car I could usually use the car's EQ and it'd feel great. So, I set my eq's up to work just like that and I love them.
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Post by seawell on Jun 11, 2018 18:48:06 GMT -6
UAD Pultec or Curve Bender at the moment but when they are ready it will be a pair of Stam EQP1a.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 11, 2018 20:43:05 GMT -6
DIYRE EQP5. Adds some nice stuff to it. I have the vintage mod on it. I use these as well.... On every mix I do. Mine have some of Jeff's 2503's and using the SL1731's right now. I go back and forth between the SL1731's and the LTL Rogues. I also set my Q to basically wide open, so when I use my EQ's it's extremely broad for both the boost and cut. I did this because I always noticed when I listened to a mix in the car I could usually use the car's EQ and it'd feel great. So, I set my eq's up to work just like that and I love them. I remember reading you swapped the transformer. I really want to try the 2503 after you said you did. I like the LTL Rogues, nice opamps for the price. Im gonna try and do a huge opamp shoot out with some ML2s this fall. I also do very broad Q on the highs. I love the tone shaping. Great EQs for the price.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 11, 2018 22:03:30 GMT -6
I use these as well.... On every mix I do. Mine have some of Jeff's 2503's and using the SL1731's right now. I go back and forth between the SL1731's and the LTL Rogues. I also set my Q to basically wide open, so when I use my EQ's it's extremely broad for both the boost and cut. I did this because I always noticed when I listened to a mix in the car I could usually use the car's EQ and it'd feel great. So, I set my eq's up to work just like that and I love them. I remember reading you swapped the transformer. I really want to try the 2503 after you said you did. I like the LTL Rogues, nice opamps for the price. Im gonna try and do a huge opamp shoot out with some ML2s this fall. I also do very broad Q on the highs. I love the tone shaping. Great EQs for the price. They sound just like a solid state pultec to my ears..... I've tried tube pultecs on the buss before, I loved them, but I prefer the SS sound on the buss much more honestly. When Peterson told me these were razor close to the SS ones I built a couple, they sounded so good I strapped them across my buss and that's where they live. Sometimes I might only just barely bump or sometimes I might have the high's over around 2 o'clock..... they sound great in the top, they'll lay a really beautiful presence to the mix. I don't do a lot of low boosting, but I do love using the low cut. If you've got a solid balanced mix and next to a REF it's lacking a finished sound, some low cut and 20k high boost from these will pull it right out. There are sometimes I won't use the EQ at all, just have the circuit engaged and then juice the signal into them until I feel the mix start pulling together.... It's an extremely simple circuit, very few parts, and it's a killer design. Those types of boxes I feel comfortable knocking the hell out of to get the tone of that opamp and transformer.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 12, 2018 0:22:54 GMT -6
Not really Jim. It's the colour that the EQ itself brings to the mix, more than "fixing offending frequencies on specific instruments". I'd be willing to wager a pretty hefty amount that all mixers that use 2Buss EQ also use individual channel EQ as you mentioned. If you're trying to chase down a problem in the bass, then sure, address it on the bass / bass heavy tracks - not the 2Buss EQ, but for the sheen and size, a Buss EQ in the right hands works exponentially better than EQing every track. Exactly. The Altec EQs I have would not make very good channel EQs - they're not "surgical" at all. They paint in wide but subtle strokes.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 1:07:06 GMT -6
I remember reading you swapped the transformer. I really want to try the 2503 after you said you did. I like the LTL Rogues, nice opamps for the price. Im gonna try and do a huge opamp shoot out with some ML2s this fall. I also do very broad Q on the highs. I love the tone shaping. Great EQs for the price. They sound just like a solid state pultec to my ears..... I've tried tube pultecs on the buss before, I loved them, but I prefer the SS sound on the buss much more honestly. When Peterson told me these were razor close to the SS ones I built a couple, they sounded so good I strapped them across my buss and that's where they live. Sometimes I might only just barely bump or sometimes I might have the high's over around 2 o'clock..... they sound great in the top, they'll lay a really beautiful presence to the mix. I don't do a lot of low boosting, but I do love using the low cut. If you've got a solid balanced mix and next to a REF it's lacking a finished sound, some low cut and 20k high boost from these will pull it right out. There are sometimes I won't use the EQ at all, just have the circuit engaged and then juice the signal into them until I feel the mix start pulling together.... It's an extremely simple circuit, very few parts, and it's a killer design. Those types of boxes I feel comfortable knocking the hell out of to get the tone of that opamp and transformer. Sounds like how I use them. Though I boost the lows and cut them. Does the pultec thing. I really like them. Thinking of getting another pair, but I have other things to build first.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 12, 2018 1:28:08 GMT -6
Yeah, I might boost 3 clicks or so just to give it some heft..... One thing about these EQ's is when you turn a knob, they freaking do something, that's what I love about them, I hate EQ's that seem to have this really long logarithmic throw to them, these are pretty linear, really lets you dial the right amount in. These EQ's also sound really nice on Vox. One thing I'd love to see them add, and I may build another one and mod a switch in to do this, but a HPF. The Electra, one of my other favorite EQ's that's a lot of bang for your buck, the way the HPF and low end knob work together will pull the chest right out of a vocal, love that.
Peterson needs to get together with that guy and let him design a compressor that is as solid and useful as the EQ they cooked up.
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Post by roundbadge on Jun 12, 2018 1:36:13 GMT -6
Digging the Miads here.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 12, 2018 2:30:59 GMT -6
To my mind it's a throw back to the days of mixing on big desks where the channel EQ's where not that great and the less you used of them the better (even SSL's on the high end could get pretty harsh sounding) so that some general shaping in the top end and bass meant less reliance of channel EQ. Now with the precision of ITB mixing and EQ's like DMG Equilibrium and Fabfilter Q2 - unless your're in a hurry and need to mix really quickly and have limited time to set up multiple channel EQ's - I prefer the precision of channel EQ. I've got a beautiful Millennia master quality EQ but I never use it on the 2 bus as I prefer to EQ channel by channel. Everyone ones work flow and production visions are different though and I'm sure some people do amazing mixes using EQ on the 2 bus. Analog Compression and saturation are different and I do use those on my 2 bus. There are plenty of big consoles that have really nice eqs. However, the less you need to use ANY EQ the better because they all produce artifacts. The least egregious are often the old inductor based passive EQs. When I do use EQ on the 2 I have a pair of old Altec/Langevin 9062A 7 band graphics. They're able to a a nice little lift in the presence region without accentuating the tendency of my voice toward sibilance - which very few other EQs are capable of, and indeed they are pretty inaudible in action. The range is only +/- 6dB per band. and they do require a preamp for makeup gain, for which I use an A-Designs KGB-2, as the insertion loss is pretty considerable - around 20 dB or so.
I do use slight compression on the 2, maybe 1 or 2 dB, never saturation.
I never used saturation until I bought a HEDD 192, if I dial in a touch of the Pentode and Tape FX it does something amazing to the width and depth of a mix - he's a clever man that Dave Hill!
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Post by ariel on Jun 12, 2018 2:56:27 GMT -6
I mix and master at the same time, I just use my Bettermaker eq502P to add a touch of 10K or 12K around a db and a half. I stopped adding and low on it is as I can mix the low via track by track basis. The bettermaker is extremely transparent and the recall is amazing!
But to answer your question would be a no on the mix stage initially, once I am happy then I do the gentle top end lift as needed.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 7:06:34 GMT -6
Yeah, I might boost 3 clicks or so just to give it some heft..... One thing about these EQ's is when you turn a knob, they freaking do something, that's what I love about them, I hate EQ's that seem to have this really long logarithmic throw to them, these are pretty linear, really lets you dial the right amount in. These EQ's also sound really nice on Vox. One thing I'd love to see them add, and I may build another one and mod a switch in to do this, but a HPF. The Electra, one of my other favorite EQ's that's a lot of bang for your buck, the way the HPF and low end knob work together will pull the chest right out of a vocal, love that. Peterson needs to get together with that guy and let him design a compressor that is as solid and useful as the EQ they cooked up. I haven't tried it, but might have too, but I love Brads Chop Shops. The filter on those is great, might work well in line with the EQP5. I need more of those in my life. Funny you say that but I just built Peterson's first compressor kit the OLA5 last night. Bought 2 and have one more to build. I know his next kit is more of a rack mount mic pre with color. Would be cool to see a VCA or FET comp from him though. Im excited to hear this OLA5. Not as nice on the affordable scale as the EQP5 but has a lot more components so understandable. Still probably the cheapest optical compressor out there with HPF, meter, and Parallel mixing build in.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 12, 2018 10:59:37 GMT -6
There are plenty of big consoles that have really nice eqs. However, the less you need to use ANY EQ the better because they all produce artifacts. The least egregious are often the old inductor based passive EQs. When I do use EQ on the 2 I have a pair of old Altec/Langevin 9062A 7 band graphics. They're able to a a nice little lift in the presence region without accentuating the tendency of my voice toward sibilance - which very few other EQs are capable of, and indeed they are pretty inaudible in action. The range is only +/- 6dB per band. and they do require a preamp for makeup gain, for which I use an A-Designs KGB-2, as the insertion loss is pretty considerable - around 20 dB or so.
I do use slight compression on the 2, maybe 1 or 2 dB, never saturation.
I never used saturation until I bought a HEDD 192, if I dial in a touch of the Pentode and Tape FX it does something amazing to the width and depth of a mix - he's a clever man that Dave Hill! Well, I don't need "Tape FX" - I have a Studer 24 track.
It's a big PITA sometimes, but it does what it does.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 12, 2018 14:18:16 GMT -6
I never used saturation until I bought a HEDD 192, if I dial in a touch of the Pentode and Tape FX it does something amazing to the width and depth of a mix - he's a clever man that Dave Hill! Well, I don't need "Tape FX" - I have a Studer 24 track.
It's a big PITA sometimes, but it does what it does.
LOL .... Yes a Studer 24 track would give you a pretty authentic tape sound :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 1:39:58 GMT -6
DIY stereo solid state Pultec with 2520 DOA input, 1731 DOA + 2503 Tx output.
Even without boosting/cuting it just makes everything a little more finished
Also I have inserted a DIY Sontec 250 for more surgical cut with narrow Q and broad Q for transparent boost.
I never start a mix with them. Always mix ITB until it sounds great compared to reference tracks. Then insert hardware and tweak until crosses from great to fantastic
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 17, 2018 12:29:05 GMT -6
Looking over the equipment list at Sear Sound I was interested to see a pair of Altec 9062s.....
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2 Bus EQ
Jun 19, 2018 13:41:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ragan on Jun 19, 2018 13:41:37 GMT -6
Johnkenn demo’ing the Museq. This sounds really nice. Has a lot of life to it. Can you only boost???
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Post by ragan on Jun 19, 2018 13:59:19 GMT -6
Nevermind, I see there's a cut button.
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