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Post by gouge on Jun 7, 2018 1:44:01 GMT -6
Looking for suggestions for mics that add that little bit of something special to a sound but don't suck the whole room down the line.
Hope that makes sense.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 7, 2018 2:04:53 GMT -6
Looking for suggestions for mics that add that little bit of something special to a sound but don't suck the whole room down the line. Hope that makes sense. I'm much more intertested in mic s that don't add anything to the sound - which a much more difficult thing to achieve. |
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Post by timcampbell on Jun 7, 2018 4:49:27 GMT -6
That really depends on your budget. All the top end, go to mics do what you describe. There are wonderful, affordable ribbon mics of different flavors, a slew of wonderful omni mics that are very often overlooked. I'd recommend almost all Beredynamic models as well as Gefells.
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Post by gouge on Jun 7, 2018 5:52:50 GMT -6
That really depends on your budget. All the top end, go to mics do what you describe. There are wonderful, affordable ribbon mics of different flavors, a slew of wonderful omni mics that are very often overlooked. I'd recommend almost all Beredynamic models as well as Gefells. thanks Tim, i've got some gefell mics and they to me have something special going on. i find the better the room the better they sound and that i can use them anywhere and put a lot of trust in them. being condensers and what seems like a fair amount of gain they do tend to amplify the room so if i'm doing multiple loud sources i can get a little stuck from bleed. i can see a beyer on the radar for me. i've used the m160 a lot in another studio and whilst i don't feel the need to get one for my own kit i'm looking around for other beyer ribbons. i've been thinking of the mbd 219 as an option as well. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 7, 2018 7:12:24 GMT -6
Here is my advice, buy used and flip till you find your sauce. Don’t listen to anybody else give everything you can a shot, there are a ton of cheap dynamics that fly under the radar, you don’t know how many times in my life I have put up a SM81, or old c451 and somebody has said that’s the 80’s tone I have been searching for.
For every guy I know who’s secret sauce is a Schoeps I know one that’s secret is a AKG C460 or C391.
Have the guts to not chase the perfect clone, there are so many interesting original transistor LDC’s that nobody cares about.
Just go out and be gutsy.
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Post by spindrift on Jun 7, 2018 7:52:07 GMT -6
^^^^^ This!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 7, 2018 8:02:52 GMT -6
If you haven't check out the location pics on spindrifts site: mike locker ain't too shabby neither !!  |
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Post by Omicron9 on Jun 7, 2018 8:06:26 GMT -6
Yep. There is a saxophonist with whom I work, and we did a shoot-out of my mic locker to find his preferred soprano sax mic. Various Neumanns, Gefells, 414s, the usual suspects. The winner was an old AKG D-224-E. The moral is: I like cake. No wait... the moral is: don't be afraid to try anything!
And the special sauce-ness may also depend on the application.
-09
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 7, 2018 8:36:39 GMT -6
Gefell M910 and M900 are amazingly neutral off-axis and their capsule is a special design that has a unique softness but also a certain clarity to it.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 7, 2018 9:06:44 GMT -6
the sE ribbons are pretty great. Pretty sure you can demo though too if you know the right folks. RNR1 would be my first choice for them. Mesenovic makes some great ribbons too that are a little tighter focused then others. Really nice.
Im a huge DPA fan too. 4011a might be my desert island mic. Nothing sounds bad on those...unless the instrument is bad because they don't lie. 4006a for omni is stellar too.
Can't go wrong with a nice TLM170 or TLM67 either. Or Scheops...
fuck it. Just buy mics and sell them as you go till you find what you like. Contact folks and ask if you can demo one/two first. Most will gladly let you try one. Or use return policies in your favor from Sweetwater or other places, buy it. Try it. Return it.
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Post by Omicron9 on Jun 7, 2018 9:12:23 GMT -6
Big +1 on the Mesanovics. Massive bass response without mud, and the stereo version has the most incredible stereo field I think I've ever heard. Must... not... buy... another one....
-09
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 7, 2018 9:18:32 GMT -6
Big +1 on the Mesanovics. Massive bass response without mud, and the stereo version has the most incredible stereo field I think I've ever heard. Must... not... buy... another one.... -09 I haven't used a stereo one. But I would love to have one. Great sounding ribbons. |
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Post by svart on Jun 7, 2018 9:23:55 GMT -6
I'm going to be a party pooper and say don't buy used mics and flip. You're always going to take a hit on the sale for most mics unless they're collectors items anyway, and then you're just going to pay too much!
Get the normal workhorse mics that all the pros use, and use them. It's fun to play around with new mics, but it's frustrating to be changing mics out in sessions because you have too many options and become deaf to their differences.
Get something with a U prefix in front of it. U87, U47, etc.
Get a handful of something with an SM prefix..
Get a pair with a KM prefix..
Get a pair of neutral workhorse LDCs like 414s or M930s.
Get enough of something with an MD prefix for your drums.
Get a ribbon with a R prefix..
Once you have all those, then you can play around with other mics.
There's a reason that there's about a dozen mics that the pros always pick from. They work. They're reliable. They get the job done.
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Post by spindrift on Jun 7, 2018 9:42:58 GMT -6
^^^^^ Party Pooper!!!  |
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Post by svart on Jun 7, 2018 9:45:41 GMT -6
^^^^^ Party Pooper!!! I can't tell you how many times I've bought a mic thinking I'll just flip it if I don't like it and then everyone else does it too and suddenly there's a glut on the market and you can't get half of what you paid back.. Hopefully someone can learn from my hard lessons! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 7, 2018 9:53:13 GMT -6
^^^^^ Party Pooper!!! I can't tell you how many times I've bought a mic thinking I'll just flip it if I don't like it and then everyone else does it too and suddenly there's a glut on the market and you can't get half of what you paid back.. Hopefully someone can learn from my hard lessons! That’s because your following hype rather than just experimenting, I have never lost money on flipping a mic, but then I always buy low, hell one month I made 2K in profit just flipping mics all sold for less than $600 with fees and shipping. Classics are Classics for a reason, but every great engineer I know has a handful of mics he uses constantly that are not the most common choices. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 7, 2018 12:55:27 GMT -6
I have at least 82 mics and DI boxes. You can never have too many mics.
I'd have more if I hadn't been hit by thieves several times over the years.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 7, 2018 15:20:51 GMT -6
Yes, buy new |
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Post by gouge on Jun 7, 2018 15:43:10 GMT -6
I generally prefer used.
I wanted to reiterate that I'm looking for mics that offer great isolation and don't suck in the room
A lot of mics in this thread could not be used for that purpose.
A lot of engineers I know would suggest the sm7 and I do like an sm7 but it does lack that something. Lets call it maple syrup, detail etc.
Ribbons I'm looking into but mainly c and hc patterns although my rca has a reduced volume from behind and does offer what I'm looking for.
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Post by popmann on Jun 7, 2018 15:49:12 GMT -6
Fig8 is drier than cardioid provided you’re not singing into a wall.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 8, 2018 5:52:34 GMT -6
I generally prefer used. I wanted to reiterate that I'm looking for mics that offer great isolation and don't suck in the room A lot of mics in this thread could not be used for that purpose. A lot of engineers I know would suggest the sm7 and I do like an sm7 but it does lack that something. Lets call it maple syrup, detail etc. Ribbons I'm looking into but mainly c and hc patterns although my rca has a reduced volume from behind and does offer what I'm looking for. If your RCA is a figure 8 and has reduced volume from the rear there is something wrong with it and it needs service. What model is it? |
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Post by gouge on Jun 8, 2018 7:10:56 GMT -6
no its fine.
see popmann's post above.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 8, 2018 8:22:31 GMT -6
I generally prefer used. I wanted to reiterate that I'm looking for mics that offer great isolation and don't suck in the room A lot of mics in this thread could not be used for that purpose. A lot of engineers I know would suggest the sm7 and I do like an sm7 but it does lack that something. Lets call it maple syrup, detail etc. Ribbons I'm looking into but mainly c and hc patterns although my rca has a reduced volume from behind and does offer what I'm looking for. I think you want a condenser or ribbon for that sticky sweet sound. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 8, 2018 12:04:24 GMT -6
no its fine. see popmann's post above. I did. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. If an RCA figure 8 is not identical front and back there's something wrong with it - probably a stretched ribbon or a bad re-ribbon job. Assymetricality is caused by the ribbon not being properly centered in the magnetic field. That's how Royer gets their "two different sounds in one mic" thing, but RCAs are not designed that way. Actually, in the case of Royers it was originally an assembly error in one of David Royer's prototypes in which he saw the potential for a sales gimmick*. If an RCA, which is designed to be symmetrical, is not there's something wrong, probably with the ribbon, but possibly with the placement of one or more magnets if the mic had been dropped hard enough to shift them. Your mic needs service. I sent my 74 to Wes Dooley at AEA, but there are others. I imagine our own Jon from Shinybox could take care of it.
You haven't told us what model RCA you have yet.
I'm not entirely certain what Popman means by "drier", but it doesn't have anything to do with pattern symmnetry. And I'm not certain what he means by that description - figure 8 mics exhibit a HUGE proximity effect, which is not exactly what I would call "dry". Semantics is a pain.
Just for reference, I have a number of ribbon mics - the RCA 74, a Beyer M160, 3 vintage Shures (one model 300 and a pair of 330s that need service as they don't sound the same), an Oktava, a Cascade Fathead, and a Nady that sometimes does good duty as a paperweight.
* - David Royer makes no secret of this, it's right there in his company literature. It's also why I won't buy his mics.
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Post by gouge on Jun 8, 2018 16:14:20 GMT -6
no its fine. see popmann's post above. I did. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. If an RCA figure 8 is not identical front and back there's something wrong with it - probably a stretched ribbon or a bad re-ribbon job. Assymetricality is caused by the ribbon not being properly centered in the magnetic field. That's how Royer gets their "two different sounds in one mic" thing, but RCAs are not designed that way. Actually, in the case of Royers it was originally an assembly error in one of David Royer's prototypes in which he saw the potential for a sales gimmick*. If an RCA, which is designed to be symmetrical, is not there's something wrong, probably with the ribbon, but possibly with the placement of one or more magnets if the mic had been dropped hard enough to shift them. Your mic needs service. I sent my 74 to Wes Dooley at AEA, but there are others. I imagine our own Jon from Shinybox could take care of it.
You haven't told us what model RCA you have yet.
I'm not entirely certain what Popman means by "drier", but it doesn't have anything to do with pattern symmnetry. And I'm not certain what he means by that description - figure 8 mics exhibit a HUGE proximity effect, which is not exactly what I would call "dry". Semantics is a pain.
Just for reference, I have a number of ribbon mics - the RCA 74, a Beyer M160, 3 vintage Shures (one model 300 and a pair of 330s that need service as they don't sound the same), an Oktava, a Cascade Fathead, and a Nady that sometimes does good duty as a paperweight.
* - David Royer makes no secret of this, it's right there in his company literature. It's also why I won't buy his mics.
it really does have everything to do with what is being discussed here. a ribbon mic in free air picks up minimal room sound from the rear of the mic. that combined with the tight side nulls means a lot of isolation can be achieved. so whilst the pattern and response is even the source is not even front/back. that aside not all ribbon mics are even front to back. take the 74jr. it has some off axis issues and is definitely not even front to back. have a look at the polar plot as an example. i think the 74jr is one of the most over rated ribbon mics around. if it had a flatter freq response it would be a better utility mic. - oh and the one i use was restored by mark f so im sure it works. my other rca mic does have an even front to back response and a fairly linear freq but it lacks air. ive got a film industries m8 to be restored. i'll see how that goes but i'm thinking a samar is one path to take. the royer i use doesn't jive with me but always seems to mix well. damn that mic!. the beyer m160 i stopped using. i have used a jolly modified nady mic and that is a keeper. |
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